THE EXHORTATION THREAD (For Christians Who Love Jesus)

[brakelite]

22 hours ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

(Remembering to be doers of the word and not hearers only.)

You do realise do you not that James did not have the NT laid out before him that he would refer to as the 'word'? And that the commandments you refer to as those of the NT being the ones we must adhere to James would not have been familiar with? But he was familiar with the commandments of God as revealed to Israel. He called it the royal law. 

8  If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9  But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11  For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12  So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is not here talking about the ceremonial law, but the moral law of ten commandments. While the ten commandments are a part of the law of Moses, the ten commandments are more essentially the law of God, the royal law that if you break just one part of, you are guilty of transgressing the whole law. Let this not be given as reason to discard the law, but rather motivation to cleave to Jesus who only has the power to impart to us the strength and spirit necessary to obey...all the commandments. Including the 4th.

On another note. The auto-immune defence system that comes to the fore every time someone mentions the Sabbath which immediately brings accusation of legalism against Sabbath keepers is a form of self deception. It is a revelation of a personal failure in either comprehending or even acknowledging the possibility that Sabbath keepers can and do obey God's 4th commandment because they recognise it as a part of that royal law that James refers to in which he says that if we break one point, we are guilty of breaking them all. They also fail to recognise the possibility that Sabbath keepers may be so out of love for their Saviour, and Sabbath keeping was a natural by-product of their relationship with Him.

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

14 minutes ago, brakelite said:

You do realise do you not that James did not have the NT laid out before him that he would refer to as the 'word'? And that the commandments you refer to as those of the NT being the ones we must adhere to James would not have been familiar with? But he was familiar with the commandments of God as revealed to Israel. He called it the royal law. 

8  If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9  But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11  For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12  So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is not here talking about the ceremonial law, but the moral law of ten commandments. While the ten commandments are a part of the law of Moses, the ten commandments are more essentially the law of God, the royal law that if you break just one part of, you are guilty of transgressing the whole law. Let this not be given as reason to discard the law, but rather motivation to cleave to Jesus who only has the power to impart to us the strength and spirit necessary to obey...all the commandments. Including the 4th.

On another note. The auto-immune defence system that comes to the fore every time someone mentions the Sabbath which immediately brings accusation of legalism against Sabbath keepers is a form of self deception. It is a revelation of a personal failure in either comprehending or even acknowledging the possibility that Sabbath keepers can and do obey God's 4th commandment because they recognise it as a part of that royal law that James refers to in which he says that if we break one point, we are guilty of breaking them all. They also fail to recognise the possibility that Sabbath keepers may be so out of love for their Saviour, and Sabbath keeping was a natural by-product of their relationship with Him.

The "word" to which James was referring was the teachings that Jesus had given to His apostles to give to the world along with the gospel message (Matthew 28:20), and has nothing to do with the law of Moses, which Jesus Himself fulfilled. The law of liberty which James referred to was the law of Christ---the teachings of Christ, and the doctrine of Christianity, not Judaism. What things carried over to Christianity from the law of Moses, including the amplification of the ten commandments, as Jesus amplified them, are in the New Testament. James may not have had the epistles that we have, but he did have the teachings of Jesus; and the "word" which Christians are to be doers of is all of the New Testament's teachings, which we have been given by God through His apostles. 

That's all I am going to say about this subject. If you want to keep the Sabbath and follow OT teachings, because you really believe the Lord wants you to, that's between you and him, and He'll have to show you otherwise. But do not teach others to do so on this thread.

Edited March 12, 2018 by LightShinesInTheDarkness

[Justin Adams]

What I see here is that the law and the prophets is of no value now for the 'enlightened' Chritians.

I caution you to actually read Genesis thru Leviticus, paying close attention to how OFTEN Yahweh repeats certain commandments. If you think the the LORD has changed, then you are in error. If you think He has changed His mind about those things that He really hold dear, I suggest you again read Leviticus.

See how often he repeats some commandments - just in case we forget.

Sure, we do not need to 'uphold' the laws per se, in order to be saved. But if we think Leviticus is spurious, we have made a grave mistake. Read it to realize your sins and shortcomings and the nature you have. Then to the confessional you go and ask forgiveness rather than sacrifice an animal. Yahweh has not changed, and as far as I see, neither has mankind. That is why continual repentance and forgiveness keep us on the straight and narrow. And for the OSAS group. Please consider what I have just written carefully.

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

20 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

What I see here is that the law and the prophets is of no value now for the 'enlightened' Chritians.

I caution you to actually read Genesis thru Leviticus, paying close attention to how OFTEN Yahweh repeats certain commandments. If you think the the LORD has changed, then you are in error. If you think He has changed His mind about those things that He really hold dear, I suggest you again read Leviticus.

See how often he repeats some commandments - just in case we forget.

Sure, we do not need to 'uphold' the laws per se, in order to be saved. But if we think Leviticus is spurious, we have made a grave mistake. Read it to realize your sins and shortcomings and the nature you have. Then to the confessional you go and ask forgiveness rather than sacrifice an animal. Yahweh has not changed, and as far as I see, neither has mankind. That is why continual repentance and forgiveness keep us on the straight and narrow. And for the OSAS group. Please consider what I have just written carefully.

The doctrine which Christians are to follow is New Testament doctrine. The Old Testament is beneficial for wisdom and instruction also, but not as far as keeping the commandments and practices of Judaism goes. Whatever God wants Christians to follow is in the New Testament; and the purpose of this thread is to exhort Christians to be obedient to the teachings of the New Testament, which is the doctrine of Christianity---the perfect law of the new and better covenant---not of the Old. If you want to encourage Christians to keep the law of Moses (God forbid), you can start your own thread to do so (may God have mercy on you if you do); but this is not the place for it, as the original post states, so kindly refrain.

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

THE PATIENCE OF CHRISTIANITY INVOLVES ACTION

(A word of exhortation)

 

If you revisit the word "patience" and the New Testament's teaching about it, you'll see that patience does not merely refer to the virtue of patience, nor does "patience" mean sitting back idly and "waiting to collect", but working, and maintaining what you have worked for. Much like the 11th chapter of Hebrews about faith, our "patience" as Christians involves action and perseverance. 

So whether you're waiting to be gathered up to meet the Lord in the air on the day of His return, or preparing to go home to be with Him before that time, let your patience be fruitful.

 

"As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience."

(Luke 8:15 ESV)

 

...To those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. (Romans 2:7,8 ESV)

 

For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love that you showed for His sake in serving the saints, as you still do. And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises. (Hebrews 6:10-12 ESV)

 

Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient about it, until it receives the early and the late rains. You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 

...As an example of suffering and patience, brothers, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. Behold, we consider those blessed who remained steadfast. (James 5:7,8,10,11 ESV)

 

Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and Godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

But according to His promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Therefore, beloved, since you are waiting for these, be diligent to be found by Him without spot or blemish, and at peace. (2 Peter 3:11-14 ESV)

 

For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary in doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. (Galatians 6:9 ESV)

Edited March 12, 2018 by LightShinesInTheDarkness

[Justin Adams]

5 minutes ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

The doctrine which Christians are to follow is New Testament doctrine. The Old Testament is beneficial for wisdom and instruction also, but not as far as keeping the commandments and practices of Judaism goes. Whatever God wants Christians to follow is in the New Testament; and the purpose of this thread is to exhort Christians to be obedient to the teachings of the New Testament, which is the doctrine of Christianity---the perfect law of the new and better covenant---not of the Old. If you want to encourage Christians to keep the law of Moses (God forbid), you can start your own thread to do so (may God have mercy on you if you do); but this is not the place for it, as the original post states, so kindly refrain.

Sorry, but you are quite incorrect. The OT was Yeshua's bible and the apostles'. Remember who Yeshua met with on the mount of the Transfiguration? Yeshua was the one that gave Moses his commands.

You will never understand the NT if you obliterate the OT. Yeshua UPHELD the law and the prophets - His Commandments not only fulfilled the law but augmented it. Read you scripture again more carefully please.

Yeshua said "IF YOU LOVE ME, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".

[Justin Adams]

Count how many times Yahweh commands us to keep His Sabbaths.

Just count them. Then see if you feel OK about ignoring them.

[brakelite]

1 hour ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

James may not have had the epistles that we have, but he did have the teachings of Jesus;

Indeed he did...heard them with his own ears. And spoke to Paul in person which conversations no doubt would have included such things as we are discussing today. Interesting that no where is it even suggested anywhere in any of James's or Paul's letters, or anyone else's for that matter, that the weekly Sabbath which Israel had honoured (sort of) for over 1000 years was suddenly an optional extra. What is also interesting is that no-one today can agree as to why the church doesn't keep Sabbath. There are as many views and theories as to why Sabbath is no longer obligatory as there are denominations. And none of those theories are to be found in scripture. 

What is even more interesting is that Jesus taught precisely the opposite. The very same Jesus you say James heard and followed. 

 

Matthew 5:17-19

17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Now what law is Jesus referring to here? And what commandments is he meaning when he condemns those who teach others that they can break them? He informs us just a few verses later when He speaks of killing and adultery. Jesus is speaking of the moral law, to which the 4th commandment is a central tenet. It is that law James was referring to when he also referred to killing and adultery as being a part of that very same royal law (see James 2:11); so you are indeed correct, James listened to his Master and Lord and taught what Jesus taught. Thus your contention that they were talking about only NT commandments is a crock.

Now of course I know you said that you weren't going to say anything more on that matter. Bury your head in the sand if you like, but this will not go away by your ignoring it. And it has everything  to do with exhorting Christians who love Jesus. 

John 14:15  If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1 John 5:1  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2  By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3  For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

[LightShinesInTheDarkness]

44 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Count how many times Yahweh commands us to keep His Sabbaths.

Just count them. Then see if you feel OK about ignoring them.

I've said all I have to say about this subject. I'm sorry that you and others are confused about it, but God will have to sort that out for you; it is not for me to do, nor is that the purpose of this thread. Hopefully He will. Now kindly desist in respect for the purpose of this thread, as laid out in the original post, and do not derail it. If you continue to post heresy on this thread, you will have the Lord to answer to for it.

[brakelite]

1 hour ago, LightShinesInTheDarkness said:

If you want to encourage Christians to keep the law of Moses (God forbid), you can start your own thread to do so (may God have mercy on you if you do);

Why do you insist on referring to the law of Moses? When God gave the tables of stone to Moses on Sinai what theological miracle changes the ownership of those laws from God to Moses? When we sin, do we go to Moses for forgiveness? When John describes sin as being the transgression of the law, did he mean Moses's law or God's? When we commit adultery, do we sin against Moses or God? When we kill do we offend Moses or God?