simplejeff Posted March 4, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2018 5 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Which is a subtle way of saying that Christians who don't keep "the law" (the Sabbath, the dietary laws) will go to Hell. Essentially, you are trying to push salvation by works. You are using all of the subtly of the "father of lies." You know, or should know, better than that. You have read and probably quoted 1st John often. The church , as I asked you a couple weeks ago or so, over all is sinful, and will not have revival in most of the churches. They are sinning and not seeking YHVH'S KINGDOM, and not seeking Jesus, and not even desiring Jesus as if to follow Him. They are lost. A few might yet be saved, maybe even many in some places. But not many over all. It is as Scripture says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted March 4, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2018 8 hours ago, brakelite said: I fully agree that very few are 'conforming to the image of Christ', and being 'transformed by the renewing of their minds', but many are claiming to be by default in their pretensions to holiness and righteousness while not in obedience to His Word. Some extricate themselves from this seeming paradox through a false humility claiming that because they are so corrupt, they cannot possibly obey God's commandments. As Jesus said, the false gospel and those teaching it and following it on the wide road is very popular, with mulitudes who will not seek and find the narrow road to life. They have teachers who deceive as many as possible, and being deceived themselves are even worse than before . If they bothered to seek in Scripture obedience, to see what the Father says, to listen to the Shepherd and follow Him, instead of following man with false traditions, they may (already) be saved, and they may get set free from the false teachings that are deceiving and hurting so many multitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted March 4, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2018 10 hours ago, brakelite said: I fully agree that very few are 'conforming to the image of Christ', and being 'transformed by the renewing of their minds', but many are claiming to be by default in their pretensions to holiness and righteousness while not in obedience to His Word. Some extricate themselves from this seeming paradox through a false humility claiming that because they are so corrupt, they cannot possibly obey God's commandments. Amen. Sad news. Did Jesus EVER tell the disciples that God's commandments are hard to do, difficult and burdensome ? EVER ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 2 hours ago, simplejeff said: You know, or should know, better than that I am right in what I said and I stand by what I said. If you don't like it, I really don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted March 4, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 9 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Which is a subtle way of saying that Christians who don't keep "the law" (the Sabbath, the dietary laws) will go to Hell. Essentially, you are trying to push salvation by works. You are using all of the subtly of the "father of lies." Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. And you are reverting to your personal self-defense default mechanism "you are working your way to heaven". In essence you are agreeing with Lucifer, "we don't need the laws of God to be like God". Though in your theology you have reworded it somewhat, by saying the laws "no longer apply to me because I am a Gentile Christian." Essentially, you are claiming that God has removed the foundational laws of His government to accommodate sinners so they can be holy without a reminder that they essentially are not holy at all, but going their own way and doing their own thing. Just like their master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 4, 2018 Share Posted March 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, brakelite said: Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. And no one is doing that. Quote And you are reverting to your personal self-defense default mechanism "you are working your way to heaven". No, I am exposing the truth behind what the SDA cult really teaches. Quote In essence you are agreeing with Lucifer, "we don't need the laws of God to be like God". Wrong. I am disagreeing the motives you assigned to Lucifer Quote Though in your theology you have reworded it somewhat, by saying the laws "no longer apply to me because I am a Gentile Christian." That is an unsophisticated and simple-minded misrepresentation of what my theology teaches. Quote Essentially, you are claiming that God has removed the foundational laws of His government to accommodate sinners so they can be holy without a reminder that they essentially are not holy at all, but going their own way and doing their own thing. Just like their master. No, I have not claimed that at all. I am pushing back on your veiled claim that those who don't keep the Sabbath are going to Hell because they are just like Satan. I have stated before that SDA's believe that and you denied it, but now you are finally coming clean and being half-way honest about your wicked theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted March 4, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted March 4, 2018 21 minutes ago, brakelite said: Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. Is this the same as the disciples who walked away from Jesus in the New Testament ? They said His Words were too difficult to bear ? i.e. they turned their ear away from hearing the Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted March 5, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 5 hours ago, shiloh357 said: And no one is doing that. Yes, you are. No, I am exposing the truth behind what the SDA cult really teaches. You are merely giving vent to your over-active imagination and misrepresentations. Wrong. I am disagreeing the motives you assigned to Lucifer Oh, so Lucifer, in his quest for glory kept God's commandments? And the modern church in their quest for worldly honour and an earthly millenial kingdom are also keeping God's commandments? That is an unsophisticated and simple-minded misrepresentation of what my theology teaches. It was a paraphrase and summary. And yet accurate. No, I have not claimed that at all. I am pushing back on your veiled claim that those who don't keep the Sabbath are going to Hell because they are just like Satan. I have stated before that SDA's believe that and you denied it, but now you are finally coming clean and being half-way honest about your wicked theology. That is merely a strawman to hide your hatred of the Sabbath. Your dishonesty regarding SDAs and their beliefs is easily refuted, and you know it...just as your claims that we believe people are going to hell just because they don't keep Sabbath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytLiJC Posted March 8, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 357 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 65 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/21/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2018 On 3/4/2018 at 2:37 AM, brakelite said: We are told in Isaiah 14 :13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. We see here that Lucifer aka Satan aka great red dragon aka accuser of brethren...wanted to be like God. So what is God like? "Gracious, merciful, longsuffering, full of goodness and truth"...we know God to be a God of love, integrity, compassion, grace and mercy. So when we read that Lucifer wanted to be like the Most High, is there any reason to believe that Lucifer wanted to be evil, malicious, vindictive, wicked and selfish in the manner we know he turned out? I think not. I think he wanted to be just like God. So.....what went wrong?????? When these thoughts of self exaltation came to him, where was he and what was he doing? Ezekiel 28:11 ¶ Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Lucifer was a "Covering Cherub". Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. We see here that the sanctuary or tabernacle in the wilderness was a copy or a small scale model of things in heaven. In that sanctuary in the wilderness that Moses built there were a number of items of furniture each one representative of a spiritual reality in heaven. I will go further into this as we progress, but in the case of the ‘cherub that covers’ we will go to Exodus 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. 20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. 21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. 22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. Note that the cherubs on either side of the ark of the covenant had their wings spread out over the ark, ‘covering’ the mercy seat. It was upon the mercy seat between the cherubim that God rested and communed with Moses. And it was under the mercy seat within the ark that resided the two tables of the ten commandments. The ark itself represented the throne of God, and His law, the ten commandments, the foundation of His government in heaven. The heavenly law of course was a law of love, which the earthly Ten Commandments were a detailed exposition.The two cherubs were comissioned to guard the throne, to protect God’s laws. This was Lucifer’s exalted position, “until iniquity was found in thee”. Iniquity is sin…sin is transgression against God’s law. (1 John 3:4). Therefore Lucifer rebelled against the very law he was created to protect. Therefore Lucifer sought to "be like God" through selfish ambition and self-exaltation. He sought to be "like God" without reference to the laws of love upon which heaven is founded. Is the church today doing the same thing? Attempting to be "conformed into the image of the Son of God " without reference to the laws of love upon which the kingdom of God is founded? in short, the soul goes through eternal circle of existence, positions and events in which there is both rise and fall - remember the dream of Jacob in which he saw stairs leading even up to the third "heaven", and some souls climbing the stairs, while others going down the stairs - and participation in the works of spiritual unrighteousness is the main reason for the fall of the soul - the soul of each of the sinners was even a highest glorious (be)souled being(cherub) in the "heaven" in previous eternities(cycles of eternity), now they are fallen in the course of the eternal circle (God hinted at that to some sinners so that they may understand the truth and repent of their sins - as in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28) satan himself is not a (be)souled being Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted March 8, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2018 On 3/4/2018 at 4:20 PM, brakelite said: Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination. And you are reverting to your personal self-defense default mechanism "you are working your way to heaven". In essence you are agreeing with Lucifer, "we don't need the laws of God to be like God". Though in your theology you have reworded it somewhat, by saying the laws "no longer apply to me because I am a Gentile Christian." Essentially, you are claiming that God has removed the foundational laws of His government to accommodate sinners so they can be holy without a reminder that they essentially are not holy at all, but going their own way and doing their own thing. Just like their master. I got something better than the Law.....it’s called the Holy Spirit. The law has done its job in my life. It convicted me of my sin and lead me to the one who bore my sins and forgave me. As Luther said “ let the Jews have the Law”. The Law is God’s instruction manual for humans to show them how to be a moral, Happy and successful person.The wiser you are the more you will look to it for guidance.Obedience to the Law is vital if you want to have a good life.It is not meant to be instructions to be deprived of a fun carnal life given to us by the great Cosmic Killjoy.The Natural Man does not realize every single command given by God was for our own good.We should strive to keep the Law because We are the beneficiaries when we do.The Law is the pinnacle of wisdom......it just doesn’t save.Faith plus nothing saves.....The Law is there to show you that you can’t keep it.It shows us we are sinners who need a Saviour.I hope you can say to the Law...” Mission Accomplished”.To put it perhaps a little crudely—— take your old Law to God’s car lot and trade it in on a shiny , new Holy Spirit.Its The only thing that will make the trip home..... a much smoother ride and the reliability is beyond reproach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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