Jesus Is God

[TrevorL]

Greetings Adstar, 

 

6 hours ago, Adstar said:

A question for you..

Who raised Jesus from the dead? 

Acts 2:22-24 (KJV):22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23  Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 2:32-36 (KJV):32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.34  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35  Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.  

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[BeyondET]

On March 11, 2018 at 7:50 AM, Justin Adams said:

Yeshua means Yahweh is Salvation.

Yeshua Ben Yahwah

[Guest shiloh357]

12 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Amen.......He exists in eternity, not bound by time.....and so He was able to appear many times in His body in the past...."His goings forth have been from of old".....even though His body was prepared, begotten, for Him at a point in time from earth's perspective. 

 He is one and the same....Father, Son and Holy Spirit.......as we see from this verse:

 Isa 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

No, Jesus is not one and the same with the Father. 

Isaiah 9:6 is not calling Jesus the Father.  In Hebrew He is avi-ad "Father of eternity."   It is using the word "father" the same way we  would say that Alexander Graham Bell is the Father of modern telecommunications.   Jesus is author of eternity, he is the architect of ages.   

He is not God the Father; He is God the Son.

[Adstar]

16 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings Adstar, 

 

Acts 2:22-24 (KJV):22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23  Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Acts 2:32-36 (KJV):32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.34  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35  Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.  

 

Kind regards

Trevor

Thanks trevorL

Yes indeed God raised Jesus from the dead. It is an essential doctrinal belief for all Christians too.

Now read the following scriptures where Jesus uses this fact to reveal Himself as God..

John 2: KJV

18 "¶ Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? {19} Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. {20} Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? {21} But he spake of the temple of his body. {22} When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

Jesus said He would raise His temple of His body after 3 days.. Why did He say this? To show us that He is LORD..

 

[KiwiChristian]

10 hours ago, Adstar said:

Thanks trevorL

Yes indeed God raised Jesus from the dead. It is an essential doctrinal belief for all Christians too.

Now read the following scriptures where Jesus uses this fact to reveal Himself as God..

John 2: KJV

18 "¶ Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? {19} Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. {20} Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? {21} But he spake of the temple of his body. {22} When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

Jesus said He would raise His temple of His body after 3 days.. Why did He say this? To show us that He is LORD..

 

I use this passage on JW's.

 

Jesus raised Himself up because He is God.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Adstar and KiwiChristian,

 

13 hours ago, Adstar said:

Yes indeed God raised Jesus from the dead. It is an essential doctrinal belief for all Christians too.

Now read the following scriptures where Jesus uses this fact to reveal Himself as God..

John 2: KJV

18 "¶ Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? {19} Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. {20} Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? {21} But he spake of the temple of his body. {22} When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said."

2 hours ago, KiwiChristian said:

Jesus raised Himself up because He is God.

I appreciate your reply and response. Your suggestion may satisfy your general overall theology, but from my perspective, from my side of the fence I have a number of problems with what you claim.

1. I believe that Jesus was a man, but nevertheless he was the Son of God by birth, moral character and resurrection. But nevertheless he was a man, and when he was crucified he was dead for three days and could not directly raise himself.

2. The verses that I quoted in Acts 2 directly state that God raised Jesus from the dead. In other words he did not raise himself from the dead as you claim.

3. Also the verses in Acts 2 state that Jesus was a man approved of God. There is no hint that Peter preached and the 3000 believed that Jesus was God the Son.

4 The events around Lazarus, his death, his abiding in the tomb for 4 days, are a precursor, a foreshadowing, a guide to the death and resurrection of Jesus, with the difference that Jesus was raised and was changed also into immortality.

 

Now from my side of the fence I have heard a few explanations that would satisfy some of my fellowship, but at the time they did not fully satisfy me, and as a result these verses in John 2 have been what I call a “difficult passage”. The only answer that satisfies me at the moment is the following, but I may re-examine what has been suggested by other members of my fellowship, by conversation, by commentary or magazine article as I cannot fully remember their explanation.

 

My preliminary answer is that Hebrews 1:1-2 states that God has spoken in and through His Son, and therefore what Jesus states in John 2 is actually God’s words, God the Father speaking and stating God was going to raise Jesus. In other words what Jesus actually said was the voice of God speaking through Jesus, and this then fully agrees with Acts 2 where Peter tells us that God raised up Jesus from the grave. There are many examples of this flow from a prophet speaking about God, to the voice of God speaking through the mouth of the prophet. David in Psalm 95:7 speaks about God’s voice, but then in Psalm 95:8 it is God speaking through the lips of the prophet. The transition is seamless, and no warning or prompt is given. So in John 2 the Jews were going to crucify Jesus but God would raise him from the dead. Another example of a seamless flow is when the Angel appeared to Moses. This has a greater perspective, but the Angel speaks as if Yahweh Himself is speaking. The Angel also manifests God’s glory.

 

13 hours ago, Adstar said:

Jesus said He would raise His temple of His body after 3 days.. Why did He say this? To show us that He is LORD..

Acts 2:24 is a quotation from Psalm 110:1 where the One God, Yahweh, that is God the Father, is distinguished from David’s Lord, our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Many passages in the OT depict the role of Jesus as Yahweh, because Jesus will represent Yahweh, especially when he sits upon the throne of David in Jerusalem for the 1000 years.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

Edited March 15, 2018 by TrevorL

[Adstar]

TrevorL Another question for you..

When the Hebrews came out of Egypt and where being lead by a pillar of cloud during the day and a pillar of fire during the nights ""Exodus 13: 21""  who was in that cloud?  Was it God?

[Justin Adams]

5 minutes ago, Adstar said:

"Exodus 13: 21""  who was in that cloud?  Was it God?

Yeshua! Cloud and Fire as necessary.

Warned by Yahweh, Moses was told to obey the 'Messenger' or else.

We are led to believe, 'gentle Jesus, meek and mild..' Absolutely not so in this case. They were told to retrace their steps and be opposite the mountain of the 'god' of seas and waters - here The Lord parted the waters just to show that Archon who was really in charge of it all. Read psalm 82 to get an idea of the Lords adversaries. His council of failed angelic 'helpers'.

I wish we had a copy of the book, "The Wars of Yahweh". As referenced in Numbers.

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Adstar and Greetings Justin Adams,

 

7 hours ago, Adstar said:

When the Hebrews came out of Egypt and where being lead by a pillar of cloud during the day and a pillar of fire during the nights ""Exodus 13: 21""  who was in that cloud?  Was it God?

I appreciate the question, and I was trying to anticipate what Scripture you had in mind, but could not find this for sure. I looked at 1 Corinthians 10 but could not gather what you are suggesting. To give an answer, I believe that the Angel that appeared to Moses at the bush was the same Angel that guided Israel through the wilderness. We have the incidents of Exodus 32-34 where this Angel threatens to withdraw and leave this guidance to a lesser Angel. Then Moses pleads and his request is granted. Moses then asks to be shown His Glory and a manifestation of His Glory is revealed coupled with a pronunciation of Yahweh’s character of abounding mercy, and yet justice. The difference between this Angel and the Angel if Moses had not intervened is that this was an Angel who stood in God’s presence and was most probably Michael the Archangel. To partly anticipate your answer then, I believe that these are real Angels, ministers of God, and neither are the pre-incarnate Jesus, as I do not believe that Jesus pre-existed before he was born, as I believe that Jesus was a man, the Son of God by birth. But many of the incidents in the OT are a shadow of things to come, by parable, by type and many other aspects. Two examples, the offering of Isaac as a burnt offering, and the sufferings and elevation of Joseph. All the furniture of the Tabernacle point forward to God’s future dwelling in the Word made flesh, the only begotten of the Father John 1:14. No it was not God, who in the English sense of this word is God the Father only. We need to understand the Biblical meaning and use of the Hebrew word Elohim.

 

7 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Read psalm 82 to get an idea of the Lords adversaries. His council of failed angelic 'helpers'.

I agree with much of what you say, but I believe that Psalm 82 is not speaking of evil angels in heaven, but the Judges who failed in their responsibility to be merciful to the poor in judgement, and preferred to favour the rich. These are the Elohim spoken of in Psalm 82 and also mentioned in John 10:30-36.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

Edited March 15, 2018 by TrevorL

[KiwiChristian]

19 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Adstar and KiwiChristian,

 

I appreciate your reply and response. Your suggestion may satisfy your general overall theology, but from my perspective, from my side of the fence I have a number of problems with what you claim.

1. I believe that Jesus was a man, but nevertheless he was the Son of God by birth, moral character and resurrection. But nevertheless he was a man, and when he was crucified he was dead for three days and could not directly raise himself.

 

He was fully man and fully God. 

 

So, are you saying Jesus lied in John 2:19 when He said "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." ?

 

19 hours ago, TrevorL said:

 

 

2. The verses that I quoted in Acts 2 directly state that God raised Jesus from the dead. In other words he did not raise himself from the dead as you claim.

 

Unless of course that Jesus is God.

 

Your false presupposition that Jesus is NOT God handicaps you.

Again, Jesus said He would raise Himself. So either He did raise Himself or He lied. 

19 hours ago, TrevorL said:

 

3. Also the verses in Acts 2 state that Jesus was a man approved of God. There is no hint that Peter preached and the 3000 believed that Jesus was God the Son.

Of course Jesus was a man. He was also God.

 

Just because you cant understand it, does not negate the fact that Jesus was fully God and fully man.

 

 

19 hours ago, TrevorL said:

 

4 The events around Lazarus, his death, his abiding in the tomb for 4 days, are a precursor, a foreshadowing, a guide to the death and resurrection of Jesus, with the difference that Jesus was raised and was changed also into immortality.

 

 

According to your interpretation.

 

19 hours ago, TrevorL said:

 

 

 

Now from my side of the fence I have heard a few explanations that would satisfy some of my fellowship, but at the time they did not fully satisfy me, and as a result these verses in John 2 have been what I call a “difficult passage”. The only answer that satisfies me at the moment is the following, but I may re-examine what has been suggested by other members of my fellowship, by conversation, by commentary or magazine article as I cannot fully remember their explanation.

 

 

Some people simply cannot be satisfied.

Just because they do not understand something, does not negate anything.

It's very easy to get sucked into a closed-minded type of attitude. The JW and mormon cults are not allowed to read ANYTHING that doesn't come from their own organisation.

 

I havent fully read this article, but initial glances look sound.

 

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1350.cfm