Judgment Begins at the House of the Lord

[Heart2Soul]

back to the OP judgment must first begin at the House of the Lord....so whether it is a church building with members and a pastor, a study group, a family, a gathering of people, the internet or whatever....if we are claiming to be the body of Christ....judgment begins with us.....and what we must examine is why.......

Edited May 1, 2018 by Heart2Soul

[Heart2Soul]

Just now, Dan_79 said:

If they have the Holy Spirit yes, I cannot see a reason why not.

But a new born-again believer may not have been taught about the Holy Spirit....

another point....some churches don't preach or teach about the Holy Spirit so again....the newly saved are at the mercy of someone to help teach them....

[Dan_79]

18 minutes ago, Heart2Soul said:

No it doesn't but with the lack of teaching at home or at school and with government banning public display of Christianity there isn't much hope to see a body of believers grow and enjoy the meat of God's Word because there are no teachers....no preachers...no evangelists....no prophets....no apostles.....where does one go to grow....if I was a new born-again believer who got saved by someone sharing on the street and then went there way and I went mine....then what....I don't know a thing about the bible....I don't know a thing about the different religions....I am stuck just knowing Jesus as my saviour and that is where I will remain.....

and when the enemy comes and attacks me...you know...when you hear the truth of God's Word immediately the enemy comes to snatch it away...

Good point.

I cannot speak for anyone else here, you would be suprised to learn how people recieve the message.

My experience is not that uncommon.

I was not raised as a Christian. Had 2 atheist parents and I was guided to where the confrontation was presented to me, no one applied any pressure on me, I decieded to seek him myself or so it seemed buy I already felt repentive, guilt ridden etc...I was looking for help and someone answered.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Dan_79

[Justin Adams]

57 minutes ago, Heart2Soul said:

at the mercy of those who teach them

Fortunately, Yeshua is still the Head of His church. He is good at looking after His kids.

Yes we should take care of our own back yards and attempt to unveil truths that often we do not fully understand. That does not really matter so long as our hearts are for the Lord. He is quite capable of nurturing His flock, so we must take care that we do not err and steady the ark unnecessarily.

Be ready in season and out of season - but do not spend too much time honing your pet beliefs.

Rather, it is time well spent to daily reassess ones own life and lifestyle.

[Heart2Soul]

1 minute ago, Dan_79 said:

Good point.

I cannot speak for anyone else here, you would be suprised to learn how people recieve the message.

My experience is not that uncommon.

I was not raised as a Christian. Had 2 atheist parents and I was guided to where the confrontation was presented to me, no one applied any pressure on me, I decieded to seek him myself.

wow, so you obviously had some knowledge of Christianity to seek it yourself.....but how did you grow.....did you get a bible and start reading? I wholeheartedly believe that as the scriptures say "no man need teach you anything but the Holy Spirit will lead and guide you into all truth".....however....who can truly say they hear the Holy Spirit when He speaks....not all do.....some...but not all.

[Heart2Soul]

1 minute ago, Justin Adams said:

Rather, it is time well spent to daily reassess ones own life and lifestyle.

And exactly what the entire point of this thread is about....

[Dan_79]

6 minutes ago, Heart2Soul said:

wow, so you obviously had some knowledge of Christianity to seek it yourself.....but how did you grow.....did you get a bible and start reading? I wholeheartedly believe that as the scriptures say "no man need teach you anything but the Holy Spirit will lead and guide you into all truth".....however....who can truly say they hear the Holy Spirit when He speaks....not all do.....some...but not all.

I sought like minded people...some were sheep some were wolves.

I wandered into a church service once early on in my mission to find truth... on invite from someone whose directions to get there were not clear, ended up in another church where I recieved my own bible...it went from there really. 

Tried a few churches and my thirst for truth just wasnt being quenched properly.

I found that I preferred to just sit and read and formulate questions based on points in scripture that I could not find clarity on and I have never stopped. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Dan_79

[Neighbor]

On 4/29/2018 at 4:21 PM, Heart2Soul said:

Judgment begins with us.....and if it begins with us then let us as Christians first become those who are pure in heart and who walk upright in obedience to His word before going out to correct others.....

What judgments should the church expect from the Holy Spirit? Revelations 2-3 addresses the seven churches of Asia....these are the judgments I believe are the ones the church must come to address and repent of before we can claim to be His Bride...IMHO...

I enjoyed this teaching on the seven churches....http://randalldsmith.com/the-end-of-the-world-seven-deadly-sins-revelation-2-3/ 

These are excerpts from that teaching.......

(1) Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-7) - the church that had forsaken its first love (2:4). Neglected priorities-placing other things more important or above God: 2:1 “To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: … 4 ‘But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 ‘Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent. …”

(2) Smyrna (Revelation 2:8-11) - the church that would suffer persecution (2:10). Fear of persecution-people fail to witness to others for fear of persecution: 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: .. 10 ‘Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life…”

(3) Pergamum (Revelation 2:12-17) - the church that needed to repent (2:16). Compromise of principles-allowing false teachings, etc: 2:12 “And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: … 14 ‘But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. 15 ‘So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 ‘Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth… “

(4) Thyatira (Revelation 2:18-29) - the church that had a false prophetess (2:20). Tolerating immorality: 2:18 “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: .. 20 ‘But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. ..”

(5) Sardis (Revelation 3:1-6) - the church that had fallen asleep (3:2). Spiritual Apathy:3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 ‘Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. 3 ‘So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. …” 

(6) Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13) - the church that had endured patiently (3:10). Dwindling Stability, where we won't push to deliberately build the body of believers:

3:7 “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: …8 ‘I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied My name. …”

Faithful, but barely hanging on – that is the truth behind thousands of churches and literally MILLIONS of anemic and sickly Christians. 

• Alzheimer’s Christian: Remembers only selectively what God has done before, but fails to be able to connect with what may be happening in the Kingdom around him today.

• Autistic Christian: Stuck on a phrase and often inappropriate in responses. Unable to connect to anyone that has no special training to understand them.

• Epileptic Christian: Not in control of all energies expended. Seems passionate but strangely disconnected from the body, randomly expending great energy not directed by any leadership or head.

• Leprous Christian: Unfeeling toward other parts of the body and infectiously causing a spreading numbness of insensitivity that kills good growth.

• Obese Christian: Ready to sit and eat with no real intent to get up and DO anything, they become expert food critics of the messages they hear.

• Burned Christian: Because of an experience that often has nothing to do with the current body they are in, they are in constant need of careful handling and touchy care.

• Anorexic Christian: Unable to see themselves as God says they are, they continue to self inspect for every flaw, totally overtaken in their own issues.

• Heart Diseased Christian: Unable to function normally because of other contributing behaviors that have weakened their endurance.

 
(7) Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22) - the church with the lukewarm faith (3:16). Lukewarm/Luxury Distraction-focused more on themselves: 3:14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this: 15 ‘I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16 ‘So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. 17 ‘Because you say, “I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked…”

1 Peter 4:17  

¹⁷ For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Hebrews 12:5-8

⁵ And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

⁶ For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

⁷ If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

⁸ But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

 

So I humbly submit this topic not to condemn but to bring awareness to our need to judge ourselves rather than what others are guilty of in their walk with God. 

Your thoughts please....

 

 

My thought? Well I am always surprised at how few spend time to praise God for the local church body that the Holy Spirit has led them to, and how God has provided the perfect provision for them, that which is needed at any one point in time. I am surprised how many lament that they cannot find a church to their liking or standard and how many accusations are posted  on Christian message boards about pastors.

Seems to me it is not a failure of pastors if true but instead a failure of God, for God is sovereign over all matters. Does God lack capability of providing the gift of pastor teacher?  The way some on boards present shrill accusation I would think that to be the case, except that the Holy Spirit has always led me to where God will want me, so that I may learn  of Him, His awesome power over all of His creation.

I can think of no local body of Christ that I would rather be at than the local body God directs me to go be a part of for whatever period of time He will have me stand  my post. When He transfers me I go and I stand my new post, not in personal comfort so much as in awe that He provides what is perfect for my need, alway.

Praise God for the fellow saints that have rallied around me when I have hurt, praise God for the deacons that have shepherded many ministries of helps and for the elders that have taught, of which my pastors are but two. Thank God for the deaconesses, those wonderful sisters in the Lord that do so many errands of mercy. I am blessed beyond my reasonable comprehension never seeing it all as I look forward, but always finding it has been perfect for me as I look back.

My thought? Praise God He provides and He is among us as we gather for God is among us when two or three  ( or more) gather in the name of Jesus. 

And there is where I love to be; mostly for the fellowship of the saints with God. I find no fault in the local bodies of Christ Jesus for that reason, each is sufficient if I listen to the lead of the Holy Spirit and read of the word of God even the weakest of gathering places benefit me.

It is not a man's presentation that I follow and therefore it is not a single pastor nor a single elder that I champion as best among many nor as worst among all. Instead I try to be humble in appreciation of the humblest of sermons to glean from the corners of the field what is there, left by God for me.

 

[Heart2Soul]

4 minutes ago, Dan_79 said:

 noI sought like minded people...some were sheep some were wolves.

I wandered into a church service once early on in my mission to find truth... on invite from someone whose directions to get there were not clear, ended up in another church where I recieved my own bible...it went from there really. 

I totally understand.....been there myself....I currently do not attend a "church" although I would like to find one that really teaches.....I am not into those 1 scripture preachers who read 1 verse then ad lib his thoughts throughout the rest of the sermon using metaphors, humor, maybe some personal experience etc.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Heart2Soul

[Heart2Soul]

11 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Fortunately, Yeshua is still the Head of His church. He is good at looking after His kids.

Yes we should take care of our own back yards and attempt to unveil truths that often we do not fully understand. That does not really matter so long as our hearts are for the Lord. He is quite capable of nurturing His flock, so we must take care that we do not err and steady the ark unnecessarily.

Be ready in season and out of season - but do not spend too much time honing your pet beliefs.

Rather, it is time well spent to daily reassess ones own life and lifestyle.

OH and if Yeshua is teaching...oh yeah....that's where I want to be....