Still Alive Posted June 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,024 Content Per Day: 1.33 Reputation: 1,224 Days Won: 3 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) Romans 9 could make a very long bible study in itself. There are a lot of implications there to ponder regarding the subject of the thread. Edited June 7, 2018 by Still Alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted June 7, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, enoob57 said: That's just it- God said what he would do and He does not say I made him do … a vast distinction wouldn't you say? I am not siding with either one , I just hope what I say next will make sense . We can use pharaoh and judas as the example. God allows a heart that rejected Him and refused Him to be hardened . JESUS KNEW who judas was . HE chose all twelve, knowing full well, judas was a devil . And JESUS says that . Have I not chosen you twelve and yet one of you is a devil . Judas was chosen , just as GOD hardened pharaohs heart against Israel. BUT , God does this to those who fully rejected Him. He don't cause a man to reject HIM, man does that . God did not cause judas to reject , JUDAS had already rejected on his own . The rejection of GOD lies squarely On man. and many men do reject grace as well. Howeever at the same time , Judas, who was never going to come TO CHRIST , was picked because Christ had to be betrayed as it is written in the scriptures . THIS was GODS plan . Was judas at fault. YOU BET . God does not cause us to reject HIM . many are called but lots reject . God is not responsible for our rejection of Him. HE simply gives grace . Our being drawn to GOD , was not by our own free will, But our remaining in HIM , oh my we better obey the SPIRIT . God don't cause us to SIN . But a hard heart , the effects of sin , WILL cause one to wax worse and worse . Judas was doomed because he rejected and sin hardened his heart and worse and worse , and worse he got . JESUS knew who he was picking when he chose judas. Judas was never going to come , yet had to be picked as the scripture said , He who has eaten bread with me , has lifted up his heel against me. I don't know if I explained it well enough . But we do need to know this . GOD does not cause us to SIN . we do . and IF one repents not they only get worse . its the effect sin has on the heart . IT WILL HARDEN IT . And JESUS KNEW that . as well as paul. Who said exhort one another daily , lest any become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted June 7, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.33 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Don't any jump to conclusions . I don't know if I explained it well enough . In case any sees error or what they think is error. YOU BE SURE and ask me , what I mean . As I said , I do not know if I explained it well enough . I know GOD is not responsible for our evil . Its just if we heed NOT the SPIRIT , sin will harden the heart , IT WILL . All we need to really deeply know is , That GOD desires none to perish . IF we believe from the heart IN CHRIST , from the HEART , and we confess him with the mouth. THAT one is saved . We must continue in HIM to the end . and we must exhort daily lest any does become hardened THROUGH the deceitfulness of sin . WE must OBEY the ONE who saved us and CAN KEEP us from FALLING . But if we don't OBEY HIM , we will FALL. For it is HE in us working that which is well pleasing IN HIS SIGHT . OBEY HIM , TRUST IN HIM , and we will never fall . continue in HIM, and HE does supply ALL we need IN HIM to overcome evil . ITS HE IN US only we better OBEY HE WHO IS IN US and GUIDES US and KEEPS our foot from ....................................................... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 46 minutes ago, Butero said: Anyone that knows what a script is will understand that it was scripted, and whether what I said was successful or unsuccessful is in the eye of the beholder. It will be received by those who are supposed to receive it. I know for a fact I was successful in reaching some because I have spoken with them. No, anyone who knows what scripted means, particularly the way YOU have used it for months, saying that it means that we have no choice in how we live or what we do, that all of our actions are "scripted," will understand the difference between knowing what will happen and scripting things to happen. It is not in the "eye of the beholder." That's ridiculous. It is the in preponderance of evidence. It is not true just because you might some who agree with you. Rather it is true if it actually comports with reality. You seem to always try to find solace in who, if any, agrees with you as if that actually lends any authority to what you say. Millions of people agree with Joseph Smith and a Billion people agree with Mohammed, but that doesn't mean that their teachings are true. Quote God does command us to choose, but that doesn't mean our decision isn't based on his will. I can write a screenplay right now, and have a person demand people to take sides, but as the author, I have already decided who will choose what. Life is not a script. You keep trying to assert that life is something God has scripted, but you have nothing in the Bible that describes life in that manner. Your basic premise about life being script and God is the scriptwriter is an assumption you have NEVER proven. What you do is find some prophecies and assign the "script" value to them but you have not actually supported that assumption. You keep trying to force that view on people, but is completely wrong. Quote None of those scriptures you posted prove we really have free will. He haven't provided direct evidence of anything. Actually, when God tells people to choose and to make decisions, that is a far more weightier evidence for free will than the silly, elaborate fiction that you invented about life being a script that you cannot actually support from any direct claim of Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 58 minutes ago, Butero said: Shiloh, all you are doing is making so-called statement of facts with no way to prove them. I already have proven them. You have NO Scriptures that actually describe life as a "script" that God writes. That's a fact. And your inability to produce any such Scriptures, coupled with your attempt to deflect to other minor issues is only bolstering my claim. Quote You claimed I am not being "successful," which means nothing. What is successful to you may not be what is successful to me. No, the objective standard for being successful would be actually producing Scriptures that say that life is a script. You make a lot of claims, but then post Scriptures that don't even address those issues and you compound the problem by trying to paint them as "script" when you haven't even supported your foundational argument that life is a script. You are operating from assumptions you have not proven but have the responsibility to prove. Quote I have had some agree with me, knowing exactly what I mean by scripted because they spoke with me about it. I don't know what makes you think you are some kind of final authority on right and wrong doctrine. Whether you have had some agree with you or not, is completely irrelevant to the facts. If I can convince 10 people to believe my computer is really a hot fudge sundae that doesn't change reality. Truth is not determined by a majority vote. It stands independent of who believes it or how many believe it. You have not offered up any support for your foundational claims. 2+2 =4. Why is that true? I can say it is true, because it is true and not because I am authority on mathematics. Truth is, by nature, self-evident. And I don't have to be an authority on doctrine to know that the stuff you are peddling here isn't true and has no basis in biblical truth and my chief, #1 exhibit is your inability to actually produce any Scripture that paints life like a script and God as the scriptwriter. Quote Perhaps in your mind, you just need to say something and that ends all debate, but I don't recognize you as having that kind of authority or knowledge. It's not about having authority; it is about the deficit of objective evidence in your argument. If you can find ONE passage that says that God is the scriptwriter and life is His script, the debate would be over. But I am not holding my breath on that one. Quote God telling people to make a decision isn't weighty at all when it comes to evidence, except in your mind, and perhaps the mind of people you take comfort in that agree with you. Millions do agree with Joseph Smith. Perhaps that should be of concern to you. The very fact that God gives people a choice and tells them to decide is irrefutable proof of the existence of free will. The ability to make a choice is the textbook definition of free will. Only beings with free will can act on an ability to make a choice. So yeah, the evidence is pretty weighty in that regard. I don't know who agrees with me and it doesn't matter. You cannot offer up one biblical passage that says life is a script and God is the scriptwriter. But that deficit of evidence doesn't give a second's pause. Your argument finds its point of origin in your mind and nowhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted June 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,189 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,351 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 hours ago, enoob57 said: The mystery is God uses His foreknowledge but does not define His basis of it's use… The scriptures that talk about Gods “foreknowledge” are a puzzle to me. But I suspect it has something to do with God knowing all the “possibilities” much love in Christ, Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted June 7, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Butero said: Shiloh, all you are doing is making so-called statement of facts with no way to prove them. You claimed I am not being "successful," which means nothing. What is successful to you may not be what is successful to me. I have had some agree with me, knowing exactly what I mean by scripted because they spoke with me about it. I don't know what makes you think you are some kind of final authority on right and wrong doctrine. Perhaps in your mind, you just need to say something and that ends all debate, but I don't recognize you as having that kind of authority or knowledge. God telling people to make a decision isn't weighty at all when it comes to evidence, except in your mind, and perhaps the mind of people you take comfort in that agree with you. Millions do agree with Joseph Smith. Perhaps that should be of concern to you. Butero removed from the thread for this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted June 7, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted June 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Not me said: The scriptures that talk about Gods “foreknowledge” are a puzzle to me. But I suspect it has something to do with God knowing all the “possibilities” much love in Christ, Not me Is God limited by time in that He can only know all the possibilities, or is He present in all points of time, past, our present, and all future to the end of time? Has He not always been at the end as well as the beginning? I can’t imagine God being constrained by time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not me Posted June 7, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 512 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 3,189 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 3,351 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/06/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 7, 2018 33 minutes ago, hmbld said: Is God limited by time in that He can only know all the possibilities, or is He present in all points of time, past, our present, and all future to the end of time? Has He not always been at the end as well as the beginning? I can’t imagine God being constrained by time. I don’t see how ascribing God knowning all possibilities, limits God. For the word foreknowledge means something hasn’t happened yet. But I am not claiming I understand these mysteries. But to throw another one out there, Scriptute says; Genesis 2:19 (KJV) And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof. Did not God know what Adam was going to name the animals? Why is He saying He didn’t. Not saying I know the answer. But have heard all sorts of reasons why. Some make excuses, others say it’s a bad translation. But I do find the scripture interesting. (but I do have my opinion on the scripture but it’s just my thoughts) Much love in Christ, Not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 1 hour ago, hmbld said: Is God limited by time in that He can only know all the possibilities, or is He present in all points of time, past, our present, and all future to the end of time? Has He not always been at the end as well as the beginning? I can’t imagine God being constrained by time. God sees and knows the future because He is already there, so to speak. There are places in the Bible when God talks about the future like it has already happened. We call that, "proleptic prophecy." God exists outside of time because He created matter, space and time all at once. He is all knowing and our minds cannot really appreciate that in its fulness at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts