Diaste Posted June 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,629 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 2,368 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, iamlamad said: No one is changing the meaning of words. And it is impossible to prove TRUTH false. Good luck trying, but it is a waste of time. After this I looked, This "after" is only after God quite dictating to John what He was to write to each church. It is STILL 95 AD shen John is called up to heaven. I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. Question: DID God show John events that were to be future to Him? The answer is over course unequivocal YES. This should be "case closed." God did exactly what He said. However, some like to argue against the truth. I wonder why? Now, if God had had John to write, I will shew thee things which must be [ONLY] hereafter, then God would have limited Himself to only things in John's future. God SELDOM limits Himself! The truth is, God included some things history to John in 95 AD. Live with it! Fanciful. Unjustified. Inaccurate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted June 26, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2019 On 6/14/2018 at 9:29 AM, Revelation Man said: 23 But Jesus did not answer a word. So His disciples came and urged Him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Great topic.. I have studied it so many times and have no conclusions. Enjoyed every ones reasoning on the topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2019 7 hours ago, Diaste said: It's iamlamad's whole theory. He seems to think that because white is a symbol of righteousness, the white horse means righteousness, therefore the gospel conquers and the 1st seal was opened 2000 years ago. Iamlamd and I have discussed it more than once. Yes, it does seem like this is an important piece of iamlamad’s puzzle....kind of risky to make a horse be a positive thing, especially when every other riding horse in Zechariah and Revelation are bringing bad things to the land. I’m not saying he can’t be right.....just saying the odds are not with him on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2019 30 minutes ago, Diaste said: Stop yelling, please. Ha ha! Sorry, I get a little excited. I guess too long hearing Drill Sergeants yelling! I'll be nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Spock said: Yes, it does seem like this is an important piece of iamlamad’s puzzle....kind of risky to make a horse be a positive thing, especially when every other riding horse in Zechariah and Revelation are bringing bad things to the land. I’m not saying he can’t be right.....just saying the odds are not with him on this. Let's refine this a little: the HORSE represents Warfare. There are Old Testament verses that show this. The COLOR of the horse is what represents righteousness, and this is a BIGGIE! You cannot overlook this. God is simply not going to use white 16 times for righteousness and then once for something else in the same book! This is a symbolic picture used by God to represent something else: in this case the church. By the way, we know God has untold millions of horses in heaven! He has no shortage of horses. Those used in Zech. are probably still alive! Nothing dies in heaven. We have the TIMING issue: the very time Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. (proven by events in chapters 4 & 5) We have the color of white. We have a horse to represent conquering. We have a crown to repesent ultimate victory. We have a bow (toxon) to represent a weapon, but no arrows: the GOSPEL is the arrows. let everything be established with two or three witnesses. We have 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2019 33 minutes ago, Reinitin said: Great topic.. I have studied it so many times and have no conclusions. Enjoyed every ones reasoning on the topic. I am impressed by what she did that FINALLY got Jesus to pay her some attention: she fell at His feet and worshiped Him! Worshiping God is the BEST thing to do when in trouble! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2019 36 minutes ago, Diaste said: Fanciful. Unjustified. Inaccurate. It is the written word of God. It is really NOT so hard to believe: just meditate on it for a month or so. Note: I don't add an "only" in my theory. I know God has the power and authority to cause John to write whatever He wanted John to write - and He CHOSE to show John the book while it was still in the hand of the Father. SO WHAT if that was some time before 95 AD? God had ever right to include some history to tell His story of the book. One day you will get it, but it may be up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted June 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2019 44 minutes ago, Diaste said: The telling of past events is not prophecy, its just a story. And not exactly a 'revelation' either. Just be prepared with a ready answer when confronted on that day. Was it "legal" for God to include some history in a book of Prophecy? Why not? John included events of what He saw then, in 95 AD. If John knew nothing of "the book" then it was "revelation" to him - no matter if it was history or future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spock Posted June 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,239 Content Per Day: 0.86 Reputation: 1,686 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/26/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2019 46 minutes ago, iamlamad said: Let's refine this a little: the HORSE represents Warfare. There are Old Testament verses that show this. The COLOR of the horse is what represents righteousness, and this is a BIGGIE! You cannot overlook this. God is simply not going to use white 16 times for righteousness and then once for something else in the same book! This is a symbolic picture used by God to represent something else: in this case the church. By the way, we know God has untold millions of horses in heaven! He has no shortage of horses. Those used in Zech. are probably still alive! Nothing dies in heaven. We have the TIMING issue: the very time Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. (proven by events in chapters 4 & 5) We have the color of white. We have a horse to represent conquering. We have a crown to repesent ultimate victory. We have a bow (toxon) to represent a weapon, but no arrows: the GOSPEL is the arrows. let everything be established with two or three witnesses. We have 5. Guzik and Calvin commentary on Zechariah 6: Four spirits of heaven: This means that these four chariots are actually four angelic beings sent from God. This means that these may not be exactly the same as the four horsemen of Revelation 6, but that the idea of their mission and purpose is similar. i. John Calvin said that these angels are compared to horsemen on chariots because "these ride swiftly as it were through the whole world to execute what God commands them." If Zechariah had the technology of today he might picture the angels in fast cars or fighter jets, showing how swiftly and powerfully they move across the earth to accomplish God's purpose. spock: They seem to agree with me....angels are riding in the chariots. This is logical! White horse may also not be very “positive” either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted June 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, iamlamad said: We have a bow (toxon) to represent a weapon, but no arrows: the GOSPEL is the arrows. I see just the opposite. Bows are more of a weapon for ranged combat. There is no direct contact and the identity of the attacker is often unknown, like a sniper. The arrows are the lies and deception which we have been warned of. They are shot from the spiritual realm and where they are coming from is hidden from view. The first horse rider is more likely the beast who comes up out of the abyss (Daniel 7, Rev 17). And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Ephesians 6:17 In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword. Revelation 1:16a When the word of God is pictured symbolically, it is a sword, a melee weapon. No deception or covert ops necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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