Thoughts on the zero tolerance policy and what it is doing to children

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Badjao33 said:

Separating parents from their children is wrong and immoral. 

The separation is only for about 10-14 days on average.    It is not a punishment and it is not immoral given this particular situation.   Because the separation is in the context of 1. They don't know who the parents are vs. the human traffickers, and 2. Those who are parents broke our laws by trying to enter illegally, and thus they are facing the consequences of an immoral action. 

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It's encouraging to see the vast majority of Americans condemning this. 

They are condemning something that they don't have all of the facts about.    They operate from emotion and not facts.

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I never said I don't care.

But trying to minimize the human trafficking problem as if it is just 1% thus not a serious issue basically says that you don't really care about that.   For you, that is not a big enough number to err on the side of preserving life.  

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I do care and separating children from their parents actually increases the likelihood they will be exploited in the future.

How is separating kids for 10-15 days and then returning them to their parents increase the likelihood that they will be exploited in the future?

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Most children trafficked in the US are recruited from inside its borders. Once a child reaches our border, they should no longer in danger of being a victim. Under this current policy, that's not the case.

Under the old way of doing things, the children were brought to the border by traffickers and then once in the US were sold to the highest bidder.   

The current policy doesn't make children a victim.    Kids that came here without parents are placed in foster homes.   Unlike the old way, that you support.

[Guest shiloh357]

5 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

 

These parents who are crossing the border to seek asylum, however, are not criminals. 

They do not deserve to be granted asylum.  Asylum is a political status.   Those who are granted asylum are a specific group of people, usually  a particular political demographic or religious demographic that are being persecuted in their country of origin.  They are the ones granted asylum. 

These people are coming from an area that generally violent and has always been violent and suffers from a massive crime rate.   That is not grounds for asylum.   So we are not under any moral obligation to grant asylum to those who do not deserve it.

Under the old way of doing things, they were granted entry based on requesting asylum and then told to come back for their hearing and they simply disappear into the US never to be heard from again.   And we have no way of knowing if they were really families or traffickers posing as parents and those children either end up in the slave trade or are dead.  

So, that doesn't really sound to Christian at all.   It's very liberal, but it's not "Christian."

[secretopossumcabal]

26 minutes ago, Davida said:

I think it's important to note that the Liberal argument is to try to imply racist motive- or that it's about skin color , where as it is about lefty politics and the votes.   

Decade after decade conservatives try to "reach out" to minorities, decade after decade they get met with a hefty racist accusation. 

Fact is leftists are the only ones that acknowledge race in understanding that groups vote in different patterns, so they use this to their advantage. Thus white males become public enemy number one.  Only conservatives are naive enough to think that race doesn't matter, but without a doubt, Leftists understand race, which is why they are importing votes and deriding whites in the pop culture.   

I'll like to let people know that I'm quite mixed raced Hispanic, my entire family is full of leftists and I've gotten disillusioned by them.  So it pains me when I see whites in the U.S embrace something that is going to doom them to a liberal hegemony. They will ignore race to their own destruction of not only themselves but of their children. 

I'm not ready to see what a liberal hegemony looks like in America, but it's going to happen in my lifetime, I don't even think Trump is going to win the reelection, so what will the wall matter then when Liberals have their hegemony to do whatever they so please? In that time there will be no such thing as compassion for there will be no more Christians left:   

1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
    They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds;
    there is none who does good.

2 The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
    to see if there are any who understand,[a]
    who seek after God.

3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
    there is none who does good,
    not even one.

Psalm 14:1-3

[Guest shiloh357]

20 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

And this is exactly what those showing up at the borders from central America are trying to escape. 

 

No, that is not what is showing up the borders.

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If that is the case, then why are so many from that region being granted asylum?

Because for so long we were not enforcing the law regarding who can and cannot be granted asylum.

[George]

Shalom everyone,

I removed the 'racists' comments out of this thread.  Let's not go down this route ...

God bless,

George

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Badjao33 said:

What is your source for this?

The 9th Circuit  Flores Consent Decree states that the children cannot be held in custody longer than 20 days and either have to be returned to their parents, or if they came without parents, must be put in care of a relative in the US or in some kind of sponsored or foster care.   

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Some of the children may never be reunited with their parents and many parents have already been deported to their home country without their children.

People who have been deported are those already living in the US for some time, and have had children in this country for a long time.   That is not what we are talking about here. 

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Border agents are trained to spot traffickers and recognize the signs of children who are being trafficked. This can usually be done immediately. There is a reason why less than 1% of those crossing the border are traffickers, they know they will most likely be caught.  

No, it is not stopping them.  They dont' come to the border looking like traffikcers.  Some can be spotted but under the catch release system you prefer, traffickers readily got their hands on children.   Not only that, but there has been an uptick in kidnappings because American lawyers are helping illegals skirt around our laws by telling them to  take children with them to gain easier entry.   Perfect for traffickers. 

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If you and your children were in grave danger wouldn't you also commit a misdemeanor of crossing another country's border if it meant  you and your children would be safe? There is nothing immoral about trying to save your family from harm or seek a better opportunity for your family. 

the fact is that they could come to ports of entry and they would not be separated from their children. There is no reason to break our laws and commit even misdemeanors.  When they come to ports of entry, the will be detained with their children.  And there  many, many ports of entry for them to utilize.   If it is about being safe, they have legal  options.   So there is no excuse...

 

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The foster care system is a recruiting ground for child traffickers. 

In the US there are close to 400,000 kids in foster care.  While the foster care system is not perfect,  Less than 1000 kids in the foster care system end up.   That is less than 0.0025% of kids that end up in human trafficking.   Foster care isn't perfect, but nothing is.  Foster care is far safer than simply releasing children into the care of someone who brought them to the border and who isn't their parent.

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Taking children away from parents at the location where they are the least likely to be a victim of sex trafficking makes no sense. The trafficking takes place either in their home country, en-route to the border ,or after they enter the US.  Once a child is at the border in the presence of border agents, they should be safe. Once that agent determines that the family is legit, they should be detained together and remain together through the entire investigative process where they will remain safe. 

What you are not getting is that when we don't separate out who is a parent from who is a human trafficker, the children brought to the border by the trafficker goes with the trafficker when they enter the country.   So they may not be abused in the presence of border agents, but once the border agents release the children into the custody of the trafficker posing a parent, those kids are still at risk.

These people are learning how to come up to the border  and how to look and what they need to say in order to game the system (thanks to liberal American lawyers).    They have no documentation and spotting the trafficker is like spotting a toupee. 

It's about keeping all of the kids safe, even the ones who are being exploited by the trafficker.

[secretopossumcabal]

6 minutes ago, George said:

Shalom everyone,

I removed the 'racists' comments out of this thread.  Let's not go down this route ...

God bless,

George

George I take a bit of umbrage with this, for there is NO preaching of "superiority" in saying that things should be separate but equal, which is how God wants things (as he destroyed the Tower of Babel for a GOOD reason).  

Here are scriptures to back me up: 
 

"After these things had been accomplished, the leaders approached me and said: “The people of Israel, including the priests and Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the surrounding peoples whose abominations are like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians, and Amorites. 2Indeed, the Israelites have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, so that the holy seed has been mixed with the people of the land."  Ezra 9:1-2

"Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, 4 because they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and He will swiftly destroy you." Deuteronomy 7:3-4

There is NOTHING racist about following scripture and preserving borders. 

"Ephraim mixes with the nations;Ephraim is an unturned cake. 9 Foreigners consume his strength, but he does not notice."  Hosea 8:9

 

 

[George]

1 minute ago, secretopossumcabal said:

George I take a bit of umbrage with this, for there is NO preaching of "superiority" in saying that things should be separate but equal, which is how God wants things (as he destroyed the Tower of Babel for a GOOD reason).  

The message of the Kingdom is bringing EVERYONE ... to the highways and the byways ...

Rev 5:9  And they sang a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the book and to open its seals, for You were slain and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every kindred and tongue and people and nation.

I don't think it's a wise idea to bring in the Tower of Babel ... into this discussion.  The Tower of Babel was connected to another Kingdom ...

 

[secretopossumcabal]

31 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

Race doesn't matter in God's eyes nor in the Church (The Body of Christ). As citizens of God's Kingdom, we have to look at all of the nations of people as a whole and stop concerning ourselves with worldly borders and countries. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is about redeeming souls from sin, not protecting a particular culture. If you don't like the way things are going in the world, change is not going to come by the flesh and human wisdom, but by God's Spirit and the Gospel.
 

Because the spirit takes precedence that doesn't mean the body doesn't matter. Race doesn't ultimately matter in God's eyes because God can see what's on the inside beyond your flesh, but men don't have this ability, ergo men need to stick to their own kind to preserve the peace within a country, otherwise civilization breaks down as it will break down when liberals get their hegemony through the destruction of borders and importation of votes.  

God observes this in various parts of the old testament with Israel as the passages I previously quoted explain.

For instance, the skin on your body prevents pathogens from infecting your body and killing you, does that mean you should disregard taking care of your skin because the spirit takes precedence? We do surrender our bodies for the cause of Christ, but not for the cause of this world, we take care of the temple of our lord, we don't invite prostitutes to dwell therein.  

7 minutes ago, George said:

The message of the Kingdom is bringing EVERYONE ... to the highways and the byways ...

YES but separate but equal. Someone in the Congo would better serve God among his own kind than having a hundred different ethnic groups in one country trying to live together peaceably, which is pretty much impossible, so what does Satan do? He tears borders down. 

The message of the kingdom will no longer exist if we give progressives a hegemony through importing votes, that is why pointing out race is so important. Mexicans better serve Christ in Mexico than trying to take this country out of covetousness. None of this is racist. 

All of this is leading down to the mark of the beast, though we can slow the process down by preserving borders, pointing race out helps to fulfill this because groups vote VERY differently.   

[secretopossumcabal]

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

A world without borders, apart from Christ's rule, is a world of chaos and confusion and God is not the author of confusion.

"Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven". 

And heaven has the BEST border control, just ask Satan.