The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

In this case I must agree with Revelation man! It is a fact: Jesus came from Israel. He was THEIR Messiah. He was birthed from Mary, and Israelite.  The woman in Rev. 12 is Israel. When those in Judea flee, it will be descendants of Jacob fleeing. You do know, most of the people living in Judea today are of Jacob's family line.

iam, Rev 12 has corporate application and is referring to the generation we are in now. It does not have singular application and is not referring to events 2000 years ago.

1. Israel - The woman (corporate)
2. The body of Christ - The child (corporate)
3. The Antichrist system in Rev 13 - The Red dragon (corporate)

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It is another FACT: what John saw in the sky is exactly what Virgo would have looked like, the day Jesus was born.  I have spent countless hours on a planetarium looking at various years. I have searched from 10 BC to 10 AD and there is only one time that we see exactly what John wrote: that was in 2 BC. 

Was Jupiter in the womb for 42 weeks while the moon under her feet with a crown of 12 stars? No. Look again.

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We all know that conception comes before birth! That goes without saying.  But John did not write of the conception. He covered the entire life of Christ on earth after birth, in one verse! His purpose was to show John what the dragon DID (a history lesson for John) when Christ was born.  There is little doubt that Mary cried out as she was giving birth. Most women do. But there was no crying out when the church was birthed in the upper room.

iam, John in Rev 12:1-5 is writing about the birth of the church through first resurrection and rapture. Rev 4-22 has nothing to do with biblical characters 2000 years. It is only referring to end times events in which we are in now.

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Sorry, but this does not fit the early church.  They were birthed in the Body of Christ in the upper room when Jesus breathed on then and said, "receive the Holy Spirit." They were born again at that moment: they got the Holy Spirit within their spirit as a deposit, a seal and a guarantee. Then at Pentecost they received the Holy Spirit upon - the anointing  - the SAME anointing that Jesus received - to do the same works. The Holy Spirit was so powerful in them that they defeated the devil day after day.

No, the body of Christ was conceived in the upper room. When John is referring to being "born again" in John 3:3 he is referring to individual conception through the seed. Remember not to confuse corporate conception with individual conception. You also need to take into account that Paul felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8, because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet.

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

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Satan has not been able to devour the church, and never will.  The church is maturing: they know their rights in Christ. They KNOW they are seated in heavenly places FAR ABOVE all principalities and powers. 

That's right, he will not devour the church because we will be harpazo'd before Satan falls to earth.

Rev 12:4-5 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”a And her child was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne. 

Rev 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

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Another birth will be the birth of the Millennial Reign of Christ. The whole earth is groaning for that, and it will soon come.

iam, i'm sorry but again no. Rom 8 and 2 Cor 5 are in reference to our resurrected bodies which we will receive at first resurrection and rapture. Did you miss Rom 8:23?

Rom 8:22-25 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

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Another birth will be the birth of the Millennial Reign of Christ. The whole earth is groaning for that, and it will soon come.

These two passages are also referring to our resurrected bodies. I want you to notice the words mortal and immortality and also being swallowed up in both passages below.....

1 Cor 15:50-54 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

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Rev. 12  is not talking about that birth. Neither was John speaking of the rapture event where the church will receive resurrection bodies. 

When Jesus was teaching me this chapter, He said (among other things) "I chose to show John what the Dragon did when I was born. Those first five verses were a 'history lesson' to John" and I heard these words. You can choose to believe it or doubt it: your choice.  I choose to believe what He said. 

No, the Dragon is a description of the Antichrist System inside the 70th week, iam. Notice the description of the seven heads and ten horns below...

Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.

Rev 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

Rev 17:3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.

Here is a picture of what he saw.... 

https://www.google.com/search?q=rev+12:1-5+picture&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA0MbHhKrcAhVENd8KHaVCDoIQsAQIKA&biw=1396&bih=662#imgrc=Tul6rMisMhbP_M:

[Steve Conley]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but your diagram is faulty; not following the scriptures.  The DAy of the Lord begins at the 6th seal that comes before the week even begins.  Jacob had to work and extra 7 years for the woman he loved, not 3 1/2 years. The entire week is Jacob's trouble. The church age ends at the pretrib rapture, just before the 6th seal. 

Sorry, but almost everything on this diagram is error. I am sure many prewrathers would agree though. 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

iamlamad, I pay no attention to the words of self-appointed apostles, who speak of special revelation from my Saviour. Which special revelation is inconsistent with the more sure word of prophecy recorded by true apostles and prophets in the Holy Scriptures.

Even a blind hog will root out an occasional acorn. You are correct the day of the Lord begins at Christ's arrival following the cosmic sign of Joel seen by John at the opening of the sixth seal. However, you are misguided concerning the timing of the sixth seal in relation to the seventieth week.

The rapture comes at the parousia

1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Christ's arrival at His parousia initiates the day of the Lord

Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Christ's arrival at His parousia follows the cosmic sign of the sun, moon, and stars going dark

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The cosmic sign of the sun, moon, and stars going dark follows the great tribulation

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The great tribulation begins in the middle of the week

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The conclusion is that what John sees at the opening of the sixth seal takes place at some point in the second half of the week, at which point the elect are resurrected and raptured and Christ's wrath in the day of the Lord begins.

My chart reflects the teaching of the true apostles and prophets, which cannot be said for your teaching.

There is only one future parousia (arrival and continuing presence) of Christ. Jesus and Paul both refer to it taking place after the great tribulation (the unprecedented persecution of the elect and Israel).

You are in grave error sir, not me.

Hallelujah

[iamlamad]

5 minutes ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

iamlamad, I pay no attention to the words of self-appointed apostles, who speak of special revelation from my Saviour. Which special revelation is inconsistent with the more sure word of prophecy recorded by true apostles and prophets in the Holy Scriptures.

Even a blind hog will root out an occasional acorn. You are correct the day of the Lord begins at Christ's arrival following the cosmic sign of Joel seen by John at the opening of the sixth seal. However, you are misguided concerning the timing of the sixth seal in relation to the seventieth week.

The rapture comes at the parousia

1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Christ's arrival at His parousia initiates the day of the Lord

Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28  For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Christ's arrival at His parousia follows the cosmic sign of the sun, moon, and stars going dark

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The cosmic sign of the sun, moon, and stars going dark follows the great tribulation

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The great tribulation begins in the middle of the week

Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mat 24:21  For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Dan 9:27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The conclusion is that what John sees at the opening of the sixth seal takes place at some point in the second half of the week, at which point the elect are resurrected and raptured and Christ's wrath in the day of the Lord begins.

My chart reflects the teaching of the true apostles and prophets, which cannot be said for your teaching.

There is only one future parousia (arrival and continuing presence) of Christ. Jesus and Paul both refer to it taking place after the great tribulation (the unprecedented persecution of the elect and Israel).

You are in grave error sir, not me.

Hallelujah

NO ONE should pay attention to "self-appointed apostles." But everyone should pay close attention to scriptures.  If I have written anything that is  " inconsistent with the more sure word of prophecy " I do hope you will point it out.  My guess is, you will only make a feeble attempt. 

you are misguided concerning the timing of the sixth seal in relation to the seventieth week.

However, you are misguided concerning the timing of the sixth seal in relation to the seventieth week.  That remains to be seen. I know that the 70th week begins with the 7th seal. It seems you don't know that - so you imagine I am mistaken.

We are agreed: the rapture will follow His coming. So far so good! But WHICH coming? His Rev. 19 coming? Not one chance in a million! Not scriptural.

Christ's arrival at His parousia initiates the day of the Lord  Again we are agreed! But again: his coming in Rev. 19? Not a chance. NONE. 

Mat 24:27  For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be.  WRONG COMING! This is His coming as shown in Rev 19 which will be after the days of GT. His coming in 1 Thes. will be BEFORE the days of GT. Paul shows us it will be before the Day of the Lord, and as the trigger for the Day. Always remember, the trigger comes before the boom. 

The gathering of the "elect" at His Rev. 19 coming is not Paul's rapture - so you have erred again. This gathering gathers from heaven. Paul's gathering gathers from earth or in the air just above the earth.  Without much doubt, the gathering shown in matthew 24 will be God gathering the Jews (wherever they are) to take them all back to Israel, which He has promised to do. 

The cosmic sign of the sun, moon, and stars going dark follows the great tribulation  In this you are correct. AFter the days of GT, there will be signs for His coming (as shown in Rev. 19). These signs will result in TOTAL DARKNESS. The moon will not be visible. Neither will the sun.

On the other hand, 7 plus years before this, there will be a previous sign in the sun and moon, but here the moon WILL BE visible, but appear blood red. This blood red moon will be the sign for the start of the Day of the Lord. Scripture shows us TWO TIMES there are signs in teh sun and moon, for two different purposes, and they are DIFFERENT. You have missed the finer details. I might add, Joel 2 shows the first sign for the DAY, while Joel 3 shows the second sign when Christ comes in power for the battle of Armageddon. 

Sorry, but your chart reflects mistakes made first by Rosenthal and Van Kampen and then many others who followed their errors. Prewrath theory cannot be backed up by a good exegesis of scripture. All you have done here is continue to propagate your errors. Throw it all into file 13 and start over!  

The conclusion is that what John sees at the opening of the sixth seal takes place at some point in the second half of the week, at which point the elect are resurrected and raptured and Christ's wrath in the day of the Lord begins. How strange when John shows this event in chapter 6 when the 70th week begins in chapter 8 - and the days of GT do not begin until late in chapter 11 - after the midpoint. Sorry, but I am going to believe John, not you or any other prewrather. Even Paul agrees with John, that the rapture comes before the Day, and as the trigger for the Day. 

You are right on one small point here: God WILL send angels to gather the descendants of Jacob from all over heaven to all over earth. It is NOT Paul's gathering, which will come 7 plus years earlier. 

There is only one future parousia (arrival and continuing presence) of Christ.   Again we agree: When He comes FOR His saints as shown by Paul pretrib, HE DOES NOT STAY! He DOES stay when He comes WITH His saints as shown in Rev. 19. 

Look: you can be wrong if you choose, and you have choosen. When these things begin to take place, you will see the rapture comes before the 70th week even begins. 

Always remember this axiom on Revelation:

ANY theory (such as yours) that must rearrange John's God given chronology, is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

iam, Rev 12 has corporate application and is referring to the generation we are in now. It does not have singular application and is not referring to events 2000 years ago.

1. Israel - The woman (corporate)
2. The body of Christ - The child (corporate)
3. The Antichrist system in Rev 13 - The Red dragon (corporate)

Was Jupiter in the womb for 42 weeks while the moon under her feet with a crown of 12 stars? No. Look again.

iam, John in Rev 12:1-5 is writing about the birth of the church through first resurrection and rapture. Rev 4-22 has nothing to do with biblical characters 2000 years. It is only referring to end times events in which we are in now.

No, the body of Christ was conceived in the upper room. When John is referring to being "born again" in John 3:3 he is referring to individual conception through the seed. Remember not to confuse corporate conception with individual conception. You also need to take into account that Paul felt abnormally born in 1 Cor 15:8, because he hadn't received his resurrected body yet.

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

That's right, he will not devour the church because we will be harpazo'd before Satan falls to earth.

Rev 12:4-5 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”a And her child was snatched up (harpazo) to God and to his throne. 

Rev 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

iam, i'm sorry but again no. Rom 8 and 2 Cor 5 are in reference to our resurrected bodies which we will receive at first resurrection and rapture. Did you miss Rom 8:23?

Rom 8:22-25 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

These two passages are also referring to our resurrected bodies. I want you to notice the words mortal and immortality and also being swallowed up in both passages below.....

1 Cor 15:50-54 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

2 Cor 5:1-5 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

No, the Dragon is a description of the Antichrist System inside the 70th week, iam. Notice the description of the seven heads and ten horns below...

Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.

Rev 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

Rev 17:3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.

Here is a picture of what he saw.... 

https://www.google.com/search?q=rev+12:1-5+picture&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA0MbHhKrcAhVENd8KHaVCDoIQsAQIKA&biw=1396&bih=662#imgrc=Tul6rMisMhbP_M:

John did not mention Jupiter! That is a distractor. 

The Dragon is another word for the devil. 

You can be mistaken if you choose, and it seems you have chosen. Just wait a while, and when these things happen, you will see they happen exactly as John has written. And you will find that the CHURCH will be in heaven when the timing of Rev. 12 comes: it is right at the midpoint of the week.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

iam, you're grasping at straws. Jesus was not taken by force or obtained by robbery. These are the descriptions of the church being taken in rapture. When Jesus comes for His church He is coming like a thief to the world, via obtained by robbery.

1Th 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

1Th 5:4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

Rev 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

harpazó: to seize, catch up, snatch away
Original Word: ἁρπάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: harpazó
Phonetic Spelling: (har-pad'-zo)
Short Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery
Definition: I seize, snatch, obtain by robbery.

That the body of Christ has been in gestation for 2000 years up until now. The birth of the church is the first resurrection and rapture.

Taken by force is not the only description of this word! 

You have missed the entire meaning of birthing.  People are added to the body of Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit the moment they believe in Jesus and confess Him. 

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

John did not mention Jupiter! That is a distractor. 

Is Virgo not a constellation of the south? God can use whatever planet He wants to fulfill His prophecies iam.

Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

Job 38:32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=-BBQW8joDM_k_AamxbaIDg&q=constellations+of+the+southern+hemisphere&oq=constellations+of+the+south&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.0l2j0i22i30k1l8.620.4672.0.6137.21.20.0.0.0.0.165.1790.18j2.20.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.20.1787.0..35i39k1j0i131k1j0i131i20i264k1j0i20i264k1.0.qKLn6lKBQHM

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The Dragon is another word for the devil.

Right, and the seven heads and ten horns represent nations and kings and the one world order that is coming to this filthy planet.

1Jo 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

1Jo 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2Jo 1:7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

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And you will find that the CHURCH will be in heaven when the timing of Rev. 12 comes: it is right at the midpoint of the week.

What scripture points to mid-trib rapture??

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Taken by force is not the only description of this word! 

Jesus was not taken by force, He rose in victory.

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People are added to the body of Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit the moment they believe in Jesus and confess Him. 

Right, and those added to the body of Christ and sealed is in reference to individual conception!!!

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

God bless

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Jesus was not taken by force, He rose in victory.

Right, and those added to the body of Christ and sealed is in reference to individual conception!!!

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

God bless

NOT "corporate conception!" Acts 2 is about being anointed for work in the ministry:

Acts 10:38

how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Jesus was not taken by force, He rose in victory.

Right, and those added to the body of Christ and sealed is in reference to individual conception!!!

1. Corporate conception of the church - Acts 2:1-4/Matt 1:20 (Example of Holy Spirit conception)
2. Individual conception seed inside the believer - John 3:16, Rom 10:9, Eph 1:13-14 (Seed Gal 3:19, Gal 3:29, 1Pe 1:23, 1Jo 3:9)
3. Corporate birth of the church - 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Rev 12:5

God bless

Do you have a verse that shows the word "birth" in any of these verses you specify in relation to the rapture?

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Is Virgo not a constellation of the south? God can use whatever planet He wants to fulfill His prophecies iam.

Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

Job 38:32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=-BBQW8joDM_k_AamxbaIDg&q=constellations+of+the+southern+hemisphere&oq=constellations+of+the+south&gs_l=psy-ab.3.0.0l2j0i22i30k1l8.620.4672.0.6137.21.20.0.0.0.0.165.1790.18j2.20.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.20.1787.0..35i39k1j0i131k1j0i131i20i264k1j0i20i264k1.0.qKLn6lKBQHM

Right, and the seven heads and ten horns represent nations and kings and the one world order that is coming to this filthy planet.

1Jo 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

1Jo 2:22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.

1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2Jo 1:7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

What scripture points to mid-trib rapture??

Non sequitur: John did not mention Jupiter in Rev. 12. He mentioned Virgo, clothed with the sun and with the moon at her feet. and with a crown of 12 stars. Over the past year, many people imagine that planets add to her stars. NOT! There are 12 stars that make up her crown without any help from planets.

Jupiter may well have had a role in the Christmas story. All I am saying is, Rev. 12 does not mention planets. 

Rev. 12:6 takes place maybe a second or two after the midpoint abomination: a second or two for reaction time.  God put a "marker" (His word not mine) to mark the exact midpoint: the 7th trumpet. It will sound in heaven when the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is the God of the Jews. In fact, He put the same marker on the beginning and ending of the 70th week.