The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[n2thelight]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Ha ha! You are so funny! Sorry, Satan is a spirit being, not a man. the man of sin is a man, hence his name: MAN of sin.

You really don't have a clue,read Ezekiel for starters 

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 I don't think Harposzo has to be a violet grabbing up. It is just another force doing the lifting. 

You're grasping at straws again. You're trying to fit a harpazo into His ascension. There was no force in His ascension, that's the point you are missing. That's why the author didn't use harpazo in Acts 1:2, 9.

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I disagree. The scriptures disagree.  The rapture will be LONG before Rev. 12 timing: it will, in fact, be just before the 6th seal.  Are you hinting that the first seal is tied somehow to events in chapter 12? If so, that is another error.

I do believe the rapture kicks off the 70th week. We are the sacrifice being taken away through rapture in Dan 12:11, Rom 12:1.

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I believe the Apostle Paul was stating that Christians who are praying, studying scripture, watching and waiting will see the prophetic signs in scripture and not be surprised at the coming of Christ.

Ok, but if we're doing all these things then aren't we looking for times and seasons? Paul says we don't need to write to you..

1 Thess 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

My interpretation of this scripture is as follows:

I believe the Apostle Paul was stating that Christians who are praying, studying scripture, watching and waiting will see the prophetic signs in scripture and not be surprised at the coming of Christ. We are the children of God and are watching and waiting for His return, seeing 'all' the prophetic signs of His return. The unsaved earth dwellers will be taken by surprise, off guard and not expecting it, as the forefathers fell asleep. 

On a side note... The above verse sure sounds like we are not appointed to the Tribulation [Wrath of God]. How would we comfort one another with those words facing the tribulation? 

You pretty much hit the nail on the head: Paul is showing us that His coming will be the trigger for the rapture events, and the rapture will be the trigger for the start of the Day of the Lord. In Revelation that would be the rapture a moment before the 6th seal. Note that at the 6th seal the Day of His wrath begins. It begins with Paul's "sudden destruction" which I believe will be a worldwide earthquake caused by the dead in Christ rising.  Paul had no need to write them about the Day of the Lord because he had taught them in person. 

The truth is, in one moment of time, two groups of people get two different results: we get salvation, or raptured and get to live together with Him, but they get left behind with the Sudden Destruction.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

You're grasping at straws again. You're trying to fit a harpazo into His ascension. There was no force in His ascension, that's the point you are missing. That's why the author didn't use harpazo in Acts 1:2, 9.

I do believe the rapture kicks off the 70th week. We are the sacrifice being taken away through rapture in Dan 12:11, Rom 12:1.

You still don't get it! Harpazo does not HAVE to be a snatching by force! That is just ONE definition: there are others:

catch up 4, take by force 3, catch away 2, pluck 2, catch 1, pull 1

Was Jesus "caught up?" Of course He was. Did the Holy Spirit catch Him away? I think that would also fit.  You are missing the meaning of the entire passage because  you are stuck on "force."

Daniel 11 is a very long chapter that covers hundreds of years. On the other hand, 1 Thes. 4 & 5 are written by the man who received the Revelation of the rapture. 

I disagree: Paul shows us the rapture kicks off the Day of the Lord. There will be 10 days of awe before the 7th seal begins the 70th week.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Ok, but if we're doing all these things then aren't we looking for times and seasons? Paul says we don't need to write to you..

1 Thess 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

He did not need to write them about it because he had taught them in person.

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

You still don't get it! Harpazo does not HAVE to be a snatching by force! That is just ONE definition: there are others:

catch up 4, take by force 3, catch away 2, pluck 2, catch 1, pull 1

Was Jesus "caught up?" Of course He was. Did the Holy Spirit catch Him away? I think that would also fit.  You are missing the meaning of the entire passage because  you are stuck on "force."

iam, again rev 12:1-5 is in reference to corporate entities. the word "dragon" is mentioned 14 times in the book of revelation, and in every instance it is referring to the beast system rising inside the 70th week. relating the dragon to Herod is dilusional.

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Daniel 11 is a very long chapter that covers hundreds of years. On the other hand, 1 Thes. 4 & 5 are written by the man who received the Revelation of the rapture. 

John also penned the rapture iam.

Rev 4:4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Rev 19:1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,

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I disagree: Paul shows us the rapture kicks off the Day of the Lord.

That's right, and the world will be caught like at thief, which is synonymous to being obtained by robbery through harpazo. God bless.

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

He did not need to write them about it because he had taught them in person.

Its anything they can do to prove a pretrib rapture. Sadly it only exists in the mind.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Its anything they can do to prove a pretrib rapture. Sadly it only exists in the mind.

Its all right there in the scriptures; millions read of a pretrib coming and rapture. If you can't see it, that is on you, not on the scriptures or anyone else. Or, perhaps you just want to be left behind for some reason.

In case you have missed it, in Revelation 19 the saints are already in heaven at the marriage, BEFORE Christ descends to the battle of Aramageddon.

In case you missed it, the great crowd too large to number were seen in the throne room before John ever starts the 70th week.

In case you missed it, if the rapture took place on His way down in Rev. 19, there would then be no sheep for the judgment: all the sheep would be raptured and changed into resurrection bodies.

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

iam, again rev 12:1-5 is in reference to corporate entities. the word "dragon" is mentioned 14 times in the book of revelation, and in every instance it is referring to the beast system rising inside the 70th week. relating the dragon to Herod is dilusional.

John also penned the rapture iam.

Rev 4:4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Rev 19:1 After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,

That's right, and the world will be caught like at thief, which is synonymous to being obtained by robbery through harpazo. God bless.

Revelation 1-5 is related to Christ's birth. The dragon is mentioned 32 times (including pronouns) in chapter 12! You should do a recount! And every time John is referring to the devil, Satan, the prince of this present world. It was Satan that took 1/3 of the angels of heaven with him. 

 

It is only imagination that the 24 elders have anything to do with the rapture.  The great multitude too large to count in chapter 7 is the just raptured church. They were raptured right at the 6th seal. John saw them shortly after that.  They are seen or heard from again in chapter 19. And they are there at the marriage and supper which will be in heaven just before we all return with Jesus.

 

Added later:  John saw the 24 elders in a vision of the past, during the time that Jesus ascended - around 32 AD. The church at that time was an infant church. These elders have to be from the Old Covenant.

Edited July 23, 2018 by iamlamad