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Heb 13:8

The context of 1 Thess 5:1

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59 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Israel have repented and are protected in Christ in Petra

At least that is the way I perceive it. You see I think the Day of the Lord happens right after the AoD so that would have Israel REPENTING before Matthew 24:15. 

Ok, so Ezek 34, Ezek 36:16-38, Ezek 37:15-28, Ezek 38-39, Amos 9:11-15 and Rom 11:25-32 are all fulfilled before the AOD?

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Of course 95 percent of all of those are fulfilled before the AoD if they have REPENTED then Gods servant David (Jesus) is OVER Israel right? I mean he is our God and Lord now after all !! Of course there is yet to be the 5 percent of the Prophecy that is speaking about an actual 1000 year reign we know will happen, but repentance brings everyone who repents into the family AT THAT TIME, thus Jesus becomes their King/Prince/Lord at that very moment.

As per Ezekiel 38-39 many think this is a war that happens after the 1000 year reign because of Rev. 20, some think it has a dual prophetic meaning, so I am leaving that aside because I don't think its clear when this happens in full. As per Romans chapter 11 I think its pretty clear, when ISRAEL BELIEVES they will be grafted back in to the Family Tree. Lets look at some of these passages separately. 

In Ezekiel chapter 34:1-11 God is speaking about the failure of the Shepard's to lead the flock properly, thus they have been scattered the world over as prey, then in verses 11,12  and 13 God starts gathering (This started in 1948 of course) his holy peoples out of these nations where they have been dispersed. God then says he will JUDGE BETWEEN CATTLE & CATTLE which means He will bring back the flock and stop judging the whole nation of Israel AS ONE ENTITY, wherefore God forsook the whole nation, now God is saying, I will bring Israel back and thus judge each INDIVIDUAL for his deeds !! Thus 2/3 of the Jews do not accept Christ as per Zechariah 13:9, because only 1/3 are refined by the fire, yet God will JUDGE CATTLE & CATTLE from 1948 on.

Ezekiel 34:22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.

Of course David (Jesus) will be set up as the Prince over Israel for 1000 years but as soon as Israel accept Jesus as they Messiah he will be their Prince from that day forward, at thus God will judge each individual Jew from 1948 on, not the Nation as a whole, whereas they were as Dead Men's Bones unto God, He then quickened them in 1948, now God blesses them FOR HIS HOLY NAMES SAKE.........Not because they deserved it, and there will come a point in time when Israel REPENT, just before the AoD, and just after the Rapture, like the Scriptures say. 

In Ezekiel chapter 36:1-15 it is basically speaking about how Israel will be a WASTELAND until God brings it back to life via bringing the Jews back into their land. Then in Ezekiel 16-38 God again prophesies that He will bring Israel out from amongst they heathen only for His on Holy names sake. So what does this mean? It means God is going to do WONDERS to Glorify His Holy name among the Wicked !! Thus He is going to bring Israel back from the Dead so to Speak and preform a Miracle for all mankind to see. Hes going to bring His Holy Prophesies to com to pass, ONE BY ONE !! 

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Once again, when does this happen? Well of course if 1/3 of the Jews FLEE TO PETRA, they have to be heeding Jesus' voice by this time, Malachi 4:5 says Israel repents BEFORE the Dreadful Day of the Lord. Zechariah chapters 12, 13 and 14 show the same thing. God says hes going to Judge CATTLE vs. CATTLE and thus the 1/3 who Accept Christ will become Children of the most high God and God will protect them in the Wilderness/Petra, and likewise 2/3 will not be protected because they don't accept Christ Jesus as their Messiah, and the Anti-Christ will kill them.  God places His spirit in those that REPENT at that very moment, not at the Second Coming, we got the Holy Spirit at the moment we were saved, not at the Second Coming right? What is the difference? Nothing, but for some reason many people think the 1/3 are just protected by God for no reason, then they accept Christ Jesus when he returns to save them !! God has already saved them by protecting them in the Wilderness/Petra, because they REPENTED Before the Day of the Lord Gods Wrath.  Once again the Prince Jesus will eventually rule for 1000 years, but Israel turns to God before the Second Coming. 

Ezekiel 36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. 36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the Lord build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the Lord have spoken it, and I will do it.

 

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be COME IN (Rapture). 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Israel's BLINDNESS last until the rapture, then God will open their eyes. He does this via the Two-witnesses showing up at the 1335 which is 45 days before the AoD Event at the 1290 and 75 days before the Holy peoples power is SCATTERED at the 1260 [middle of the week] Event where the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem. 

 

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2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

ORomans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be COME IN (Rapture). 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Israel's BLINDNESS last until the rapture, then God will open their eyes. He does this via the Two-witnesses showing up at the 1335 which is 45 days before the AoD Event at the 1290 and 75 days before the Holy peoples power is SCATTERED at the 1260 [middle of the week] Event where the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem. 

I would disagree with that interpretation.

I do believe the fullness of the gentiles is fulfilled at the end of the 70th week... 

youtube(dot)com/watch?v=uKz_Dwhluyw

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

I would disagree with that interpretation.

I do believe the fullness of the gentiles is fulfilled at the end of the 70th week... 

youtube(dot)com/watch?v=uKz_Dwhluyw

In that case then Israel should have never been able to see should they, because the Gentiles have ruled the World for all of history, haven't they, to be technical. 

So what does......Israel was BLINDED until the time of the GENTILES is fulfilled mean? It means the Gentile Church that took the place of the Jews who were BLINDED at that very moment when they rejected Jesus as the Messiah/Savior. It has nothing to do with Gentile Rulers who have always ruled the world in some shape, fashion or form. The Mantle of taking the Gospel unto the world was given to the Gentiles, thus Matthew 24:14 states that when the Gospel has been preached unto all the world, THEN THE END (70th Week) WILL COME. 

The Gentiles being over Jerusalem in Revelation does not mean the same thing. I think that is what confuses many people. The Gentiles trampling Jerusalem under foot is not the same thing as the Gentile Church Age. 

Edited by Revelation Man
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On 7/2/2018 at 12:43 AM, Revelation Man said:

In that case then Israel should have never been able to see should they, because the Gentiles have ruled the World for all of history, haven't they, to be technical. 

So what does......Israel was BLINDED until the time of the GENTILES is fulfilled mean? It means the Gentile Church that took the place of the Jews who were BLINDED at that very moment when they rejected Jesus as the Messiah/Savior. It has nothing to do with Gentile Rulers who have always ruled the world in some shape, fashion or form. The Mantle of taking the Gospel unto the world was given to the Gentiles, thus Matthew 24:14 states that when the Gospel has been preached unto all the world, THEN THE END (70th Week) WILL COME. 

The Gentiles being over Jerusalem in Revelation does not mean the same thing. I think that is what confuses many people. The Gentiles trampling Jerusalem under foot is not the same thing as the Gentile Church Age. 

It seems to me that this covenant that takes away their sins (atonement) in Rom 11 is at the end of the 70th week on the Day of Atonement. This is when Israel will be living in peace and safety, Ez 34, 37, Hos 2.

I would say there's Christian Gentiles and non believing Gentiles as much as there is Christian Jews and non believing Jews that come to faith in Christ, Gal 3:28. If not, you would have to disprove that the 7 Feasts of the Lord does not have end time application.

Rom 11:26-27 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

Jer 31:31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. 33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Jer 32:40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me.

Ezek 16:60-63 Yet I will remember the covenant I made with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you. 61Then you will remember your ways and be ashamed when you receive your sisters, both those who are older than you and those who are younger. I will give them to you as daughters, but not on the basis of my covenant with you. 62So I will establish my covenant with you, and you will know that I am the Lord. 63Then, when I make atonement for you for all you have done, you will remember and be ashamed and never again open your mouth because of your humiliation, declares the Sovereign Lord.’ ”

Eze 34:25 “ ‘I will make a covenant of peace with them and rid the land of savage beasts so that they may live in the wilderness and sleep in the forests in safety.

Eze 37:26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever.

Hos 2:18 In that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky and the creatures that move along the ground. Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety.

Heb 8:8-10 But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 9It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

- Heb

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Posted (edited)
On 7/3/2018 at 3:12 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

It seems to me that this covenant that takes away their sins (atonement) in Rom 11 is at the end of the 70th week on the Day of Atonement. This is when Israel will be living in peace and safety, Ez 34, 37, Hos 2.

 

The day of Atonement is whenever one repents. Ezekiel chapters 34 and 37 are way to vague on the timing, they pretty much gloss over specific timings, it can be inferred that eventually Israel will live in Peace after they repent, but after 2500 years, no one is counting the exact number of days per se at the end in these chapters. In Daniel chapter 12, if we can understand it, we get the number of days per specified events, 1335, 1290 and 1260. We are told in Malachi that the Two-witnesses show up BEFORE the great and Dreadful Day of the Lord. So where chapters are vague in references, we should take our markers from other places that have exact reference points, so that's what I do.

Malachi 4:5-6 has a specific reference point as per being before the DOTL.  Daniel 12 gives us specified events and the days from said events until the Second Coming or untl these WONDERS will have ended. If Malachi says Israel repents before the DOTL, and the DOTL starts with the very First seal, then they have to repent before the 1260, and we know Jesus tells the Jews to Flee when they see the AoD which is the 1290, so they must repent before the 1290 also. Thus they must repent at the 1335, which is 75 days before the 1260. 

On 7/3/2018 at 3:12 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

 I would say there's Christian Gentiles and non believing Gentiles as much as there is Christian Jews and non believing Jews that come to faith in Christ, Gal 3:28. If not, you would have to disprove that the 7 Feasts of the Lord does not have end time application.

 

The 7 Feasts of the Lord does have End Time Applications, we are in the Harvest/Pentecost as we speak. But that isn't the point as per the time of the Gentiles being fulfilled. The Jews were the PATH TO SALVATION for the whole world, then they rejected Christ Jesus and thus God, thus they were CALLED to a certain Ministry right ? NOW WATCH THIS.......

Rom. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

So Israel's calling never goes away, but for a time they were blinded..........25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

So Israel had a calling, then God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years just like Ezekiel ch. 37 says, then God revived them in 1948, they are STILL BLINDED even though God is blessing them again, why has He not opened their eyes IN FULL yet?  Because the Rapture of the Gentile Church has not yet happened !! Again, why would the Jews understand to Flee Judea into Petra of they had nor already Repented and read Matthew ch. 24 wnen the AoD happens ? IMHO, the 144,000 are the Repented Jews, except they are really more like in the 2 Million range. 

On 7/3/2018 at 3:12 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

Rom 11:26-27 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

Jer 31:31 “The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. 33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

Jer 32:40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me.

Jesus Sealed this Covenant with his blood, BUT like each individual man only gets forgiveness when they repent. Israel has been Judged as a Nation, and thus God changes in the END TIMES and Judges them CATTLE vs. CATTLE. God Forgives Israel as a nation, thus He started blessing them in 1948, but only when the Gentile Church is gone will God call Israel unto Repentance. The Sacrifice has already been made, but God has to CALL US TO REPENTANCE, without that calling we would have never known God. God will call Israel unto repentance via the Two-witnesses at the 1335 which happens after the Rapture and before the First Seal is opened. 

All of those Prophesies were about Jesus coming to die for mankind's sins.

By the way, the original Covenant is the same Covenant Jesus made by dying on the Cross. The LAW was added 430 years after the PROMISE. So in essence there is no "New Covenant". But since the Jews "felt" they were under the Law it was called a New Covenant, but it was the original covenant, the promise of a coming seed that would take away the sins of the world. 

Edited by Revelation Man

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3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

it can be inferred that eventual Israel will live in Peace after they repent

If they are in peace and repent prior to the 70th week, then I see a contradiction with the beasts of the earth.

Eze 34:25 “ ‘I will make a covenant of peace with them and rid the land of savage beasts so that they may live in the wilderness and sleep in the forests in safety.

Hos 2:18 In that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky and the creatures that move along the ground. Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety.

Rev 6:7-9 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

If they were repenting prior to the seals then why are they re-building the third temple for the antichrist?

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Malachi 4:5-6 has a specific reference point as per being before the DOTL.

So them "showing up" is them prophesying more than 1260 days? 😲

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NOW WATCH THIS.......

Rom. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

So Israel's calling never goes away, but for a time they were..........25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be 

No, the word "for" is a conjuction describing what precedes it, which is the Gospel, the elect, the patriarchs.

HELPS Word-studies
1063 gár (a conjunction) – for. While "for" is usually the best translation of 1063 (gár), its sense is shaped by the preceding statement – the "A" statement which precedes the 1063 (gár) statement in the "A-B" unit.

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All o those Prophesies were about Jesus coming to die for mankind's sins.

Then why is Israel the subject of those passages. As for the rest of mankind, their sins are atoned for at the cross, Rom 10:9.

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By the way, the original Covenant is the same Covenant Jesus made by dying on the Cross. The LAW was added 430 years after the PROMISE. 

No, the law and Jesus shed blood are polar opposite. We are now in the better covenant for those who believe, Heb 8:6, Heb 11:39-40. God bless.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/21/2018 at 9:32 PM, Heb 13:8 said:

So how would the thessalonican's not be surprised like a thief without believers on the internet warning them? Can believers in 2018 just know when that day comes without the internet?

Mark 13 Matthew 24 gave you all the signs to watch for.

One example,as long as there are wars going on in the world,Christ is not returning

 

Edited by n2thelight

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8 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Mark 13 Matthew 24 gave you all the signs to watch for.

One example,as long as there are wars going on in the world,Christ is not returning

Well, the rapture and the second coming are seven years apart. Matt 24:31 is not a harpazo, it's an episunagó.

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59 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Well, the rapture and the second coming are seven years apart. Matt 24:31 is not a harpazo, it's an episunagó.

It seems to me that if you are going to say that:

*[[Mat 24:31]] KJV* And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Is not about the rapture,  but is about a separate event of  gathering together [episunago], then 2 Thess 2 must also be about the timing of the gathering together [not the rapture].  

*[[2Th 2:1]] KJV* Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our GATHERING TOGETHER  unto him,

Therefore,  2 Thess 2 cannot be used to say that it has anything to do with the  timing  of the rapture, relative to the falling away or the revelation of the man of sin.   Paul is referring to the timing of "that [one]  day", not those days, meaning "the coming" & "our gathering".  If the word "our" includes the church, then the timing of "our" gathering,  must coincide with "our" rapture.

Blessings

The PuP 

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