The context of 1 Thess 5:1

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I hope you know that in most if not all languages, a single word - or even a compound word can have more than one meaning.  It is that way with Paul's use of "Apostasia."  The truth is, a falling away (from what Paul did not specify) simply does not fit Paul's context. 

It is another truth: evil cannot restrain evil! If it was up to the devil, he could never restrain himself. A falling away (from what?) cannot be a restraining  force that is restraining an evil force, that is the man of sin. Good can restrain evil, but evil cannot restrain evil.

If you just follow Paul's text with no preconceptions, you will discover that in 3B the man of sin IS REVEALED, showing us that in 3A the restraining force was "taken out of the way."  How can you make a parallel of falling away, which is done on a individual basis, with "taken out of the way" which is done by an outside force? Sorry, but this is oranges compared to a horse shoe - they have nothing in common.  

However, if you use this compound word "apostasia" as it was meant to be used, and the way Paul used it, it makes perfect sense: "apo" means a part of a whole [group] removed and taken to a different location - and this is done so fast, the rest of the group appears stationary or standing still. Srong's has it right: his definition fits what Paul was saying perfectly. 

The THEME of the passage is the rapture of the church. But these people it seems thought they had MISSED the pretrib rapture and were now in the Day of the Lord. 

Paul's argument is, "no, you cannot be in the DAY because before that DAY (the evil day of destruction) comes, there most FIRST be a departing. AFTER the departing you will see the man of sin revealed. Then all will know the DAY has arrived and you are IN IT."  Paul did not specify right there who or what was doing this departing. But IN CONTEXT his meaning is clear: the church must be "taken out of the way" as the restrainer so that the man of sin will be revealed at the proper time. The truth then is that they had NOT missed the rapture! And they were NOT in the Day of the Lord. 

You go ahead and watch for the Beast. But the church will be watching for HIM - Jesus' coming. I don't see how you can watch for both: it will be one or the other. 

The beast restraining himself? How do you get such nonsense? It is the Holy Spirit, working through the church that is restraining or holding back the revealing of the man of sin. When the church is "taken out of the way," then the Holy Spirit will have no believers on earth to work through. So the man of sin will then be revealed. When he is, all will know the DAY has come. 

The theme of this post is that it will be impossible for one to be watching for the beast and Our Lord at the same time. It will be one or the other.

A person is free to believe what they wish. 

Time will tell.

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Which part?

It doesn't matter, the main thrust is in keeping with scripture; the beast first, then the coming of the Lord and the gathering.

 

[Michael37]

47 minutes ago, Diaste said:

In the Greek there is no 'he' as you can see below. Further Paul is relating four events to the believers: the coming of the Lord, the gathering, the rebellion, and the revealing. Paul is telling some of these events occur before others, namely the rebellion and the revealing occur before the Coming and the gathering. In keeping with the context of; "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ AND THE GATHERING," the following makes much more sense.

Literally,

 

KJV                 only       he who now       letteth        [will let],

Greek             monon           arti               katecho       heos

Literal            Merely      just now        hold fast        until.

 

KJV                 until               he be taken             out of               the way. 

Greek              heos                ginomai                   ek                    mesos       

Literal             until               to emerge           from out of         in the midst.

It's an emerging from the midst where 'mesos' can also be 'middle'. Ginomai is a term that can be used for appearing on the world stage.

"

‘Ginomai’ (he be taken)

Definition

to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen of events to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage of men appearing in public to be made, finished of miracles, to be performed, wrought to become, be made

Not sure why 'ginomai' was rendered 'he be taken' but that concept does not appear in the definition as 'ginomai' is an appearance of something that wasn't there before, and thrust into the affairs of the world, like the drawing back of a curtain.

In proper English then the last part of 2 Thess 2:8 should read more like, "All you have to do is sit tight until the beast is revealed to the world in the middle." 

Most, if not all, the agenda driven wolves exile the context in favor text fragments that can be molded into any configuration. 

One can easily see, if they look, the proper reading of 2 Thess 2 1:8 tells us the beast and the rebellion comes before the Day of the Lord and our gathering together to him. The only 'restraining' in view here is that of the events of the sinful nature of man and the plan of God to release the beast running their course before the Lord will return to put an end to this folly, right after he grabs us up.

There is no 'restrainer'. That concept of a 'he who restrains' is made up by nonsensical doctrinaires. Paul says, "Now you understand the holding back", which flows from the ideas presented about the 'day' that will not come, "because except the apostasy and the revealing of the one who proclaims himself to be God in the Temple".

This is all about the order of events of the coming of the Lord and the gathering, and what must occur first as the signs given to those concerned, and not about some entity "restraining evil".  Honestly, if some "restraining entity" is supposed to be "holding back evil" they should be fired cause they ain't getting 'er done.

But you'll see. Experience is the best teacher. I know none of you will hear, but you will believe when you see the events, I hope.

I do like a good paradox loop, Diaste. I was aware of the Greek but it still doesn't help your case. The Lord will come, but first there will be an incremental falling away tantamount to the removal of restraint. Twitter or its future equivalent will be all over it with waves of revelatory images and tweets on policy, legislation, enforcement, identification and commercial developments emanating from the man of sin who will in effect be President Of Planet Earth. The "deviant reality" (gaining impetus exponentially everyday) is being restrained by the righteousness still in play but this continues to dwindle until the maximum potential of the natural wickedness of man is reached. The Lord will not come before then. Praise God for His longsuffering that allows more sinners to be saved.

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, n2thelight said:

There is a need ,from the below are they different or one?

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Great dragon, old serpent, Devil, and Satan are all names for one who used to be Lucifer, but they are not names for the beast and the false prophet.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

A person is free to believe what they wish. 

Time will tell.

Now you have written something I can agree with!  

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

Great dragon, old serpent, Devil, and Satan are all names for one who used to be Lucifer, but they are not names for the beast and the false prophet.

Very good observation. TRUTH!

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Michael37 said:

I do like a good paradox loop, Diaste. I was aware of the Greek but it still doesn't help your case. The Lord will come, but first there will be an incremental falling away tantamount to the removal of restraint. Twitter or its future equivalent will be all over it with waves of revelatory images and tweets on policy, legislation, enforcement, identification and commercial developments emanating from the man of sin who will in effect be President Of Planet Earth. The "deviant reality" (gaining impetus exponentially everyday) is being restrained by the righteousness still in play but this continues to dwindle until the maximum potential of the natural wickedness of man is reached. The Lord will not come before then. Praise God for His longsuffering that allows more sinners to be saved.

Incremental?  "Falling away?"  If this was what Paul had in mind, it would not help his argument. His argument is "how to know you are in the Day of the Lord and it has started."

It is not just any departing (apostasia), it is a very significant apostasia. That would mean something easily recognized as "Ah! That is what Paul was thinking of!"  But if Paul's real meaning was a falling away from truth, as so many imagine, how in the world would anyone know when "enough" had fallen away to meet Paul's intent?  The truth is, there are always some falling away from the church, but at the same time, there are always more coming into the truth of the gospel and being saved.  I just can't see a falling away as meeting Paul's intent. 

On the other hand, if Paul's intent was the departing of the church, that would be instantaneous, and extremely significant, and anyone left behind would know: "so this is what Paul wrote about!" This meaning fits the context much better. And it still fits the definition of the compound word, apostasia. Furthermore, it just makes good sense that GOOD restrains EVIL. It is truth.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

It doesn't matter, the main thrust is in keeping with scripture; the beast first, then the coming of the Lord and the gathering.

 

You are ad libbing! You are imagining the gathering last when there is no evidence for it in the text.  And you even missed what Paul said was first: the apostasia. "Back to the drawing board!"

[n2thelight]

3 hours ago, Diaste said:

It doesn't matter, the main thrust is in keeping with scripture; the beast first, then the coming of the Lord and the gathering.

 

I agree the beast does come first,don't see where I said otherwise. First beast is a system, ie,one world government, that will fall apart (deadly wound) second beast is satan himself who will heal that wound as he pretends to be Christ. 

[n2thelight]

28 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You are ad libbing! You are imagining the gathering last when there is no evidence for it in the text.  And you even missed what Paul said was first: the apostasia. "Back to the drawing board!"

Paul without a doubt says we gather to Christ after the man of sin(satan)is revealed. 

Still can't figure out what part you're missing. 

You can't be following the subject