The Pretrib Rapture: An Entitlement for the Privileged Few?

[Alan Hales]

6 hours ago, Steve Conley said:

Greetings to all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Alan, the difference between you and those you are contending with is that they provide chapter and verse for each of their propositions. You, on the other hand, spout off with your knowledge of the pre-trib dispensational system. I know your system much better than you do. I taught it for thirty years. It is built upon assumptions, inference, eisegesis, misunderstandings, and circular reasoning. Your system is not Scripture. It has no authority. That means that you have no Biblical basis for what you say.

You, sir, are contending with the very God that you claim to worship. Jesus said, in vain do they worship me teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Your beliefs concerning these things are in opposition to the words of Christ, the apostles, and the prophets.

On top of that, your foolish statements only serve to put on display your own ignorance and immaturity.

If you would begin to provide support for each of your propositions by referencing explicit statements from the Holy Scriptures, you will find that what you have believed is a house of cards.

Jesus said, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

Glory be to Jesus Christ

 

No one can provide chapter or verse that mention the Church going through  the great tribulation period, Because there isn't any.

You have admitted that you once believed the Biblical truth, But now you DON'T. You have accepted the devils lies, and call Jesus and Paul liars.

You can't give ONE scripture to back your erroneous belief up, And I can provide lots of scriptures that prove the pre-trib rapture.

[Diaste]

 

On 10/14/2018 at 10:16 AM, Alan Hales said:

Nowhere does the Bible say the Church goes through the tribulation period.

That's the same as saying unicorns don't exist because we have not seen one. It's not proof of anything.

On 10/14/2018 at 10:16 AM, Alan Hales said:

In relation to the coming tribulation period, Both Jesus and Paul said we won't go through it. 

In those exact words? Please post the evidence.

[Alan Hales]

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

That's the same as saying unicorns don't exist because we have not seen one. It's not proof of anything.

In those exact words? Please post the evidence.

You don't find the Church going through the great tribulation period, In the Bible, And that's a Biblical FACT. You do find the Jews, backsliders and those who get saved during the tribulation period, In the Bible.

In relation to the coming great tribulation period, Both Jesus and Paul[ Who was inspired by Jesus], Say we won't go through it.

If you don't know those and other scriptures are in the Bible, You have no right to your end time belief, Because you haven't studied the end time events properly. So do a Biblical study of the end times with an open mind and a teachable spirit.  I could give you scriptures, But you need to find the for yourself to stop you ignorance of the end time events.

Here are some more thing to look for.

[1]Jesus comes for His people before the tribulation period, And come Back WITH His people after the tribulation. Two different events.

[2]At the pre tribulation rapture, Jesus comes for His people, Whereas after the tribulation, The Angels gather the people. Two different events.

So do your homework and you'll find out that the Church doesn't go through the great tribulation period.

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Alan Hales said:

I could give you scriptures, But you need to find the for yourself to stop you ignorance of the end time events.

So you have none. 

The church will go through the great tribulation. Its a period that comes 3.5 years after the beast rises to power. Great tribulation lasts for an undetermined span of time that will be short of 3.5 years.

The church will go through this time period. 

Whats coming is the final battle between good and evil. Satan will be defeated and the Lord Jesus will reign supreme both in heaven and on earth.

Even though we are all going to experience the most difficult time in history we have no reason to fear.  

If we keep the word of his patience he will guard us from the moment when we are forced to make the choice.

The beast will rise.

The Temple will be rebuilt.

Great tribulation will begin.

Only after this will Jesus come for us in the one and only 2nd coming and gathering.

If you do not pass on before you will see all this.

I'd get ready if I were you.

[Diaste]

On 10/17/2018 at 3:36 AM, Alan Hales said:

 

You have admitted that you once believed the Biblical truth, But now you DON'T.

No. Hes' saying he once believed in the fear based lie of the pretrib dispensationalist view. I did as well. It is a virulent doctrine, prevalent and with a very high rate of mortality.

He's saying he has now heard the truth and discarded the lie. It's a hard truth to be sure, most truths are, especially when we ferociously defend our personal bias.

 

[Diaste]

On 10/17/2018 at 3:31 AM, Alan Hales said:

Jesus said, "That day shall not come"  What day, The day of the physical coming of Jesus to reign. Please note v1, "The coming of our Lord AND our gathering together unto Him. [1]The coming of our lord,= the physical coming to reign for 1000 years. [2]Our gathering together unto Him= the pre tribulation rapture. The Greek meaning for, "Falling away", is made up from two Greek words which means "A Departing, a taking away". Please note what 2 Thess 2: 3 DOESN'T SAY, It doesn't say a "falling away FROM THE FAITH", Does it??.  Even if it did, people  have fallen away from the faith. The reason why Paul wrote 2 Thess 2, is because some people were scaring the Christians by saying they'll have to go through the tribulation period. v2. Then Paul goes on to tell them not to worry because the Church will be raptures before the man of sin can come. Vs 3--8.

You're making up stuff. Actually you're just repeating what you have heard after failing to research and confirm the words of the wolves. 

2 Thess 2:1-8 (parentheticals removed)

 

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. ...but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 

It's obvious here that the revealing of the beast is holding back the coming of the Lord. 

First the rebellion and the revealing of the beast, then the coming of our Lord and the gathering of us, to Him.

No other order is possible. You should begin to prepare for this truth which will cover the whole earth.

 

[Alan Hales]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

So you have none. 

The church will go through the great tribulation. Its a period that comes 3.5 years after the beast rises to power. Great tribulation lasts for an undetermined span of time that will be short of 3.5 years.

The church will go through this time period. 

Whats coming is the final battle between good and evil. Satan will be defeated and the Lord Jesus will reign supreme both in heaven and on earth.

Even though we are all going to experience the most difficult time in history we have no reason to fear.  

If we keep the word of his patience he will guard us from the moment when we are forced to make the choice.

The beast will rise.

The Temple will be rebuilt.

Great tribulation will begin.

Only after this will Jesus come for us in the one and only 2nd coming and gathering.

If you do not pass on before you will see all this.

I'd get ready if I were you.

Nowhere does the Bible say the Church goes through the great tribulation period, You are calling Jesus and Paul liars.

If you knew the Bible, You would know that the Church has to go before the man of sin can come. If the devil couldn't deal with ONE Jesus, How is he going to handle millions of Christians who are just like Jesus??. He can't, That's why we have to go before he comes.

Because you don't know those and other scriptures are in the Bible, You have no right to your end time belief, Because you haven't studied the end time events properly. So do a Biblical study of the end times with an open mind and a teachable spirit.  I could give you scriptures, But you need to find the for yourself to stop you ignorance of the end time events.

Here are some more thing to look for.

[1]Jesus comes for His people before the tribulation period, And come Back WITH His people after the tribulation. Two different events.

[2]At the pre tribulation rapture, Jesus comes for His people, Whereas after the tribulation, The Angels gather the people. Two different events.

[3]You don't find Jesus coming for His Church in the tribulation period, Because it's not in the Bible.

You can't gibe ONE scripture that says the Church goes through the end time great tribulation period.

[Alan Hales]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

You're making up stuff. Actually you're just repeating what you have heard after failing to research and confirm the words of the wolves. 

2 Thess 2:1-8 (parentheticals removed)

 

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. ...but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 

It's obvious here that the revealing of the beast is holding back the coming of the Lord. 

First the rebellion and the revealing of the beast, then the coming of our Lord and the gathering of us, to Him.

No other order is possible. You should begin to prepare for this truth which will cover the whole earth.

 

2 Thess 2:  6--7 doesn't say the beast is holding back the coming of Jesus,, DOES IT??..  NO, It says the Church is holding the man of sin up. 

See vs 6--8.  

There is no mention of rebellion in 2 Thess 2.  The "Falling away" in v3, Is made up from two Greek words, which mean "A Departing, A taking away".  The pre-trib rapture.   You have made your own end time doctrine up.

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

2 Thess 2:  6--7 doesn't say the beast is holding back the coming of Jesus,, DOES IT??..  NO, It says the Church is holding the man of sin up. 

See vs 6--8.  

There is no mention of rebellion in 2 Thess 2.  The "Falling away" in v3, Is made up from two Greek words, which mean "A Departing, A taking away".  The pre-trib rapture.   You have made your own end time doctrine up.

Since I quoted the passage for you, yes, it does say the beast is holding back the return of Jesus and the gathering. You have been inculcated in the pretrib nonsense. You simply repeat what you have heard while failing to do the study.

The Coming of the Lord and the gathering of us to Him is the 'day' that shall not come till the rebellion and the revealing occur. You don't have to believe me. You'll believe the Lord when prophesied events begin to occur and you realize the pretrib dispensationalists have lied to you.

2 Thess 2:3, "...a falling away..." is the Greek word 'apostasia', defined below, corroborated by every Greek translator and dictionary in existence, as REVOLT or REBELLION.

 

apostasia: defection, revolt

Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Definition: defection, revolt
Usage: defection, apostasy, revolt.

Apostasia is not made up from two Greek words, though the wolves would have you believe this is the case. The idea behind apostasia rises from aphistemi which roots implies desertion, NOT a departure from one place to another, but instead a departure from an ideology. 

Apostasia is a very strong term unequivocal in it's meaning. The people of God will defect from the faith en masse, and they will revolt against His ways. 

I can see it happening now, it everywhere.  I suspect the rebellion of the people of God will transition into open rebellion on a very large scale, as they defect to the camp of the beast to save their lives.

Sad but true. Don't be one of them. 

 

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

You are calling Jesus and Paul liars.

Unfounded accusation.  You're a believer in, and a follower of, Jesus?  

18 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

 If the devil couldn't deal with ONE Jesus, How is he going to handle millions of Christians who are just like Jesus??. He can't, That's why we have to go before he comes.

An emotional plea. This a factless, baseless argument.  

1 Peter 4, "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: " That's us. Judgement begins with us. Not the sinner. Not the devil. Us.

18 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

You have no right to your end time belief, Because you haven't studied the end time events properly. 

Oh? Is this what the wolves tell you?  I have NO RIGHT to my belief? Only you and your handlers have STUDIED PROPERLY and I have not? This is manipulation marching toward control. 

18 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

Here are some more thing to look for.

[1]Jesus comes for His people before the tribulation period, And come Back WITH His people after the tribulation. Two different events.

[2]At the pre tribulation rapture, Jesus comes for His people, Whereas after the tribulation, The Angels gather the people. Two different events.

[3]You don't find Jesus coming for His Church in the tribulation period, Because it's not in the Bible.

Your doing the same thing as your teacher/wolf does, repeat the same fable over and over till people believe. 

Just repeating the same weak, emotional arguments does not prove the case. 

 

18 hours ago, Alan Hales said:

You can't gibe ONE scripture that says the Church goes through the end time great tribulation period.

"13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation,"

In stark contrast no pretrib group is ever mentioned. This group is. And they came from out of the midst of GT. 

"and have washed their robes,and made them white in the blood of the Lamb"

This GT group has attained to righteousness. It's an important milestone, fact, event, truth. Why no mention of a similar pretrib group who must be perfect in all their ways, while alive on earth? Well? Seems a group of sinless individuals numbering in the 100's of millions taken to heaven would merit at least a passing mention. 

Jesus goes through the whole 70th week in three gospels and yet fails to mention a pretrib gathering, while pointedly foretelling a gathering AFTER great tribulation. You mean to tell me Jesus would not assure us we would skip all the bad stuff when he had the chance?