Church Strategies to Enhance Spiritual Growth

[Willie T]

In actuality, I think most of us may get part of that verse all wrong.  The beginning says that faith comes through hearing...… and the sentence is usually broken by a semi-colon there.  And that is correct.  We humans DO tend to believe what we hear over and over again.  Or what we experience as happening consistently.  (Do you worry that the traffic signal is going to suddenly switch to red when it just changed to green as you approached it?  Of course you don't.  You have developed "faith" that a light remains green for at least 15 seconds.  And you put your life on the line every single time you drive right on... having total faith that you are safe.)  Hitler even "faithfully" convinced most of the German population that Jews were rodent and bug infested filth that needed to be exterminated.

What that verse goes on to say is that we need to try to ascertain that what we are constantly hearing is the actual word that Jesus wants us to hear.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Willie T

[Willie T]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I don't agree that Rom 10:17 is speaking against bibliolatry (see my additional comments above). The exact words out of Jesus were in Hebrew and Paul in Greek, so yes, we need accurate translations?

Again,what translation did you use, because there are some horrible ones...like The Passion?

Are you saying what I wrote is wrong?  Or, that if it came from someplace you were told is bad, that you have to disagree with it?

[Willie T]

15 minutes ago, Yowm said:

First things first. Which translation did you use?

I don't believe, for a minute, that you have not already done what all of us do, and simply Googled the words (it takes less than 2 seconds), so you already know what translation I used.  But, why is it that you cannot simply say "Yes" or "No" to the question of whether or not those words were correct?

Are you being led by the nose to have to resist any express words but what a favored translation uses?

Edited July 5, 2018 by Willie T

[Willie T]

1 minute ago, Yowm said:

I was checking your forthrightness and to see how proud you were of the Passion Translation. I'm not sure why that poor translation is embraced by NAR churches except they found one that lines up with their crazy theology.

No, that translation is incorrect and to attack those who love the Scriptures by calling them 'bibliolators', only affirms one is coming from a liberal wing of Christiandom that is quick to belittle the Scriptures.

Frankly, I only heard of The Passion Translation a few days ago.  And I have only read a handful of passages from it.  But, so far almost every time I have checked something out in that translation, it has been much clearer than many other translations.  The only thing different was that The Passion says that "shortly" in Revelation means that once those prophesies begin, they will occur very quickly.  Other translations sometimes say it meant that some of those things were going to happen soon after the book was written.

[Willie T]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

Are you thoroughly studied in the original languages?

Those who are, don't recommend it.

I keep returning to the misleading words of Luke 14:26 in most Bibles that seem to be really little more than rehashes of the KJV.  I don't see the slightest reason for the KJV translators to have to have tried to be inflammatory and "Bible Thumping" by using the word "hate" when several other translations (including TPT) express His words rationally, and most likely exactly the way He meant them.  When you have to hunt down the meaning of a passage by going to other parts of the Bible, IMO, those translators have failed miserably in their jobs.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Willie T

[Heleadethme]

16 hours ago, MadHermit said:

Almost all churches need to find new ways to upgrade congregational spirituality.  But what concrete steps can and should they take to achieve this goal?  As a retired pastor, I have come to certain conclusions about how we do church and I  want to share some simple and practical ideas that might best promote spiritual growth in a congregation.  I have left out doctrinally divisive themes because I want to focus on strategies whose appeal crosses denominational lines.  Please don't comment on B or C below until A has been thoroughly explored.  Examine A-C and feel free to suggest other practical and realistic strategies that I have omitted.  

A. Corporate Spirituality Apart from the Sunday Service:                                                                                                                                                                      

1. Make regular attendance of a small prayer group a membership requirement.                                                                                                                               

2. Better still, restore 19th century-style Methodist class meetings as requirements for church membership.                                                                                 

3. Sponsor these forms of community outreach: a weekly soup kitchen for the poor, a monthly service at a local assisted living facility or nursing home, an advertised monthly potluck dinner and movie night featuring Christian movies or Hollywood movies on spiritual themes with a brief discussion period afterwards.

B. The Structure of Sunday Worship Services:                                                                                                                                                                                         

1. Serve Holy Communion twice a month and make an extended period of holy silence for confession and listening for divine guidance a regular part of the Communion service.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

2. Require at least some of church music to express the sermon's theme.                                                                                                                                            

3. Regularly observe the Lent and Advent seasons by creating worship services with appropriate themes, music, and rituals appropriate to both seasons.  

C. The Enrichment and Expansion of the Preaching Ministry:                                                                                                                                                               

1. Require pastors to accept preaching mentors or mentoring groups.                                                                                                                                                  

2. Actively train lay preachers and create opportnnties for them to preach on Sunday morning or at other services.

Well sir, probably the first and best piece of advice I would give is that except the Lord build the house we labour in vain....that is saying more than appears on the surface, so it needs to be meditated on prayerfully.

[Willie T]

9 minutes ago, Yowm said:

The TPT states "you will even seem as though you hate your own life."

This is awful as it leaves the assessment up to the observer instead of oneself and God.

In just a few short days, I have found that many on this forum are quite comfortable with doing that very thing to others at the drop of a hat... so why the fear of this translation?

Edited July 5, 2018 by Willie T

[Heleadethme]

2 hours ago, Willie T said:

I keep returning to the misleading words of Luke 14:26 in most Bibles that seem to be really little more than rehashes of the KJV.  I don't see the slightest reason for the KJV translators to have to have tried to be inflammatory and "Bible Thumping" by using the word "hate" when several other translations (including TPT) express His words rationally, and most likely exactly the way He meant them.  When you have to hunt down the meaning of a passage by going to other parts of the Bible, IMO, those translators have failed miserably in their jobs.

Anyone who loves the Lord, and loves His word, and loves the truth will want to use the least doctored translation possible....they will want the most faithful word for word translations that we have, and the least paraphrased possible....otherwise how will we test what anyone paraphrases....against what plumbline?

God's word is written the way He wanted it, in His wisdom, for good reasons.....one is that He has hidden the truth from the wise and learned and only revealed it to little children......another reason is that His word tests our hearts.....and a third reason is so that we will rely on the Holy Spirit for our understanding, and that often includes allowing parts of His word to interpret or give light to other parts (meaning we often do need to search other parts of the bible to get understanding of a passage because that is what the Lord intended we should do).  Still another reason is the fact that truth is something that we have to "buy"...we pay a price for it through obedience and following Jesus, carrying our cross, etc.  So His word is not something that God intended for ease of understanding since we only receive more of it as we follow the Lord, obey Him, grow and mature.  It's meant to be a living word....spiritual.....alive and active.....a two-edged sword.  It strikes me as incredibly presumptuous for someone to try and write a paraphrased "bible"....as though they are usurping the place of the Holy Spirit.....like handling the ark of God with our hands of flesh, as if He needs OUR help....??  Yikes....I fear for those that do that.

[Still Alive]

19 hours ago, MadHermit said:

Almost all churches need to find new ways to upgrade congregational spirituality.  But what concrete steps can and should they take to achieve this goal?  As a retired pastor, I have come to certain conclusions about how we do church and I  want to share some simple and practical ideas that might best promote spiritual growth in a congregation.  I have left out doctrinally divisive themes because I want to focus on strategies whose appeal crosses denominational lines.  Please don't comment on B or C below until A has been thoroughly explored.  Examine A-C and feel free to suggest other practical and realistic strategies that I have omitted.  

A. Corporate Spirituality Apart from the Sunday Service:                                                                                                                                                                      

1. Make regular attendance of a small prayer group a membership requirement.                                                                                                                               

2. Better still, restore 19th century-style Methodist class meetings as requirements for church membership.                                                                                 

3. Sponsor these forms of community outreach: a weekly soup kitchen for the poor, a monthly service at a local assisted living facility or nursing home, an advertised monthly potluck dinner and movie night featuring Christian movies or Hollywood movies on spiritual themes with a brief discussion period afterwards.

B. The Structure of Sunday Worship Services:                                                                                                                                                                                         

1. Serve Holy Communion twice a month and make an extended period of holy silence for confession and listening for divine guidance a regular part of the Communion service.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

2. Require at least some of church music to express the sermon's theme.                                                                                                                                            

3. Regularly observe the Lent and Advent seasons by creating worship services with appropriate themes, music, and rituals appropriate to both seasons.  

C. The Enrichment and Expansion of the Preaching Ministry:                                                                                                                                                               

1. Require pastors to accept preaching mentors or mentoring groups.                                                                                                                                                  

2. Actively train lay preachers and create opportnnties for them to preach on Sunday morning or at other services.

I like to go back to the "garden of eden before the fall" paradigm. Why was man created? According to Ecclesiastes, it was to "eat and drink and enjoy the fruits of our labor" and obey God's commands. What matters is our relationship with God And our relationship with our fellow man. This involves teaching and prayer, but I think we tend to complicate it WAY too much. It's not that hard. At least, that's what Jesus seemed to be saying when he said His burden is light.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

19 hours ago, MadHermit said:

Almost all churches need to find new ways to upgrade congregational spirituality.  But what concrete steps can and should they take to achieve this goal?  As a retired pastor, I have come to certain conclusions about how we do church and I  want to share some simple and practical ideas that might best promote spiritual growth in a congregation.  I have left out doctrinally divisive themes because I want to focus on strategies whose appeal crosses denominational lines.  Please don't comment on B or C below until A has been thoroughly explored.  Examine A-C and feel free to suggest other practical and realistic strategies that I have omitted.  

A. Corporate Spirituality Apart from the Sunday Service:                                                                                                                                                                      

1. Make regular attendance of a small prayer group a membership requirement.                                                                                                                               

2. Better still, restore 19th century-style Methodist class meetings as requirements for church membership.                                                                                 

3. Sponsor these forms of community outreach: a weekly soup kitchen for the poor, a monthly service at a local assisted living facility or nursing home, an advertised monthly potluck dinner and movie night featuring Christian movies or Hollywood movies on spiritual themes with a brief discussion period afterwards.

B. The Structure of Sunday Worship Services:                                                                                                                                                                                         

1. Serve Holy Communion twice a month and make an extended period of holy silence for confession and listening for divine guidance a regular part of the Communion service.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

2. Require at least some of church music to express the sermon's theme.                                                                                                                                            

3. Regularly observe the Lent and Advent seasons by creating worship services with appropriate themes, music, and rituals appropriate to both seasons.  

C. The Enrichment and Expansion of the Preaching Ministry:                                                                                                                                                               

1. Require pastors to accept preaching mentors or mentoring groups.                                                                                                                                                  

2. Actively train lay preachers and create opportnnties for them to preach on Sunday morning or at other services.

Not to be argumentative, but I would not be part of any church following these rules.  This sounds like taking the worst practices of the Roman Catholic Church and marrying them to the worst practices current in Evangelical Churches.  These are bad ideas, imho.