Hillsong Church NYC

[Debp]

Since my other topic was locked, I wanted to respond to what Shiloh posted about the NYC Hillsong Church.   I am truly shocked that they had gay worship leaders, even engaged to each other...and the other things Shiloh posted, shocking as well.

When I told my neighbor (she had gone to Hillsong NYC before L.A.), that I had left churches that promoted the gay stuff as being right...she responded to me "Are you Methodist?" I was surprised....I said no, I'm a conservative born again Christian!    Now I am nderstanding more of what the Hillsong Church she is involved with believes.  Very surprising to say the least!

[Willie T]

10 hours ago, Debp said:

Since my other topic was locked, I wanted to respond to what Shiloh posted about the NYC Hillsong Church.   I am truly shocked that they had gay worship leaders, even engaged to each other...and the other things Shiloh posted, shocking as well.

When I told my neighbor (she had gone to Hillsong NYC before L.A.), that I had left churches that promoted the gay stuff as being right...she responded to me "Are you Methodist?" I was surprised....I said no, I'm a conservative born again Christian!    Now I am nderstanding more of what the Hillsong Church she is involved with believes.  Very surprising to say the least!

It is getting all too prevalent. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by Willie T

[Michael37]

Is Elim in the USA? Big in UK & NZ. Big trouble too, with leadership immorality swept under the carpet. One particular Elim leader (I prefer not to use pastor as a title), left his wife and three grown sons to indulge his "gay side" as he put it, stating that he had always felt "gay" and was now coming out because he is now "accepting" there is nothing wrong with being gay. Needless to say people who "followed" him have had a rude awakening. Apostasy. Apostasy. Apostasy.

Warn the flock not to be unsettled by the corruption, deception, and exploitation encroaching on the elect.

Praise God for those who are faithful to the end.

Col 1:21-23
(21)  And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled
(22)  In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
(23)  If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
 

[Guest shiloh357]

10 hours ago, Debp said:

Since my other topic was locked, I wanted to respond to what Shiloh posted about the NYC Hillsong Church.   I am truly shocked that they had gay worship leaders, even engaged to each other...and the other things Shiloh posted, shocking as well.

When I told my neighbor (she had gone to Hillsong NYC before L.A.), that I had left churches that promoted the gay stuff as being right...she responded to me "Are you Methodist?" I was surprised....I said no, I'm a conservative born again Christian!    Now I am nderstanding more of what the Hillsong Church she is involved with believes.  Very surprising to say the least!

It is the fruit of the pro-LGBT/gay propaganda that is being taught in public schools in the US.  By the time these kids get to 12th grade in some areas, they are thoroughly indoctrinated.   And what's worse is that these views are reinforced in college and these students will go on to hold the levers of power in politics, education and even in the ministry.   Churches are being pastored by men who believe that homosexuality is acceptable.  And this is becoming more and more evident. 

[Willie T]

I guess we have to go all the way to calling some people flat out liars to put them where we swear they are.  I just haven't learned to do that yet.

https://hillsong.com/media-releases/hillsong-church-statement-by-senior-pastor-brian-houston/

[Guest shiloh357]

25 minutes ago, Willie T said:

I guess we have to go all the way to calling some people flat out liars to put them where we swear they are.  I just haven't learned to do that yet.

https://hillsong.com/media-releases/hillsong-church-statement-by-senior-pastor-brian-houston/

It's just an attempt to protect the empire.   Nothing more.   He can deny all he wants, but it is true and there is a lot out there about it.  It's hard when you have to walk a tight rope between protecting a ministry empire and standing for the truth.  

[GandalfTheWise]

10 hours ago, Debp said:

Since my other topic was locked, I wanted to respond to what Shiloh posted about the NYC Hillsong Church.   I am truly shocked that they had gay worship leaders, even engaged to each other...and the other things Shiloh posted, shocking as well.

When I told my neighbor (she had gone to Hillsong NYC before L.A.), that I had left churches that promoted the gay stuff as being right...she responded to me "Are you Methodist?" I was surprised....I said no, I'm a conservative born again Christian!    Now I am nderstanding more of what the Hillsong Church she is involved with believes.  Very surprising to say the least!

A bit of Bing research and reading some articles from a series of sources shows that this person was removed from their position as a worship leader upon coming out.  A few sensationalist headlines made it sound like Hillsong leadership knew about it and did nothing or even paraded it and that this person is still a primary worship leader there.   Now, their choice of what to do (and what they decided to do) when this situation happens is certainly up for discussion, but headlines and innuendos that create the impression that they did nothing or indeed celebrated it appeared to be more based in bias than fact.   I've found that there are some Christians web sites that have such strong and passionate views about the error of certain individuals, churches, and denominations that they seem to believe each and every innuendo and often assume the worst and pass that on as factual.  Hillsong seems to have a number of things that should be openly discussed, but doing so primarily on the basis of innuendo driven headlines is not helpful.

My sense is that churches take 3 main approaches in situations like this, zero-tolerance, limited-tolerance, and open celebration.   Many more liberal churches have taken the route of open celebration.   More conservative churches either take a zero-tolerance stand (there is a list of sins for which you will be kicked out of the church and not allowed to attend at all) or a limited-tolerance stand (there is a list of sins for which you will not be allowed in leadership or ministry positions but you won't be kicked out).  It boils down to what to do with people caught up in and in bondage to something that goes against the standards that church holds.  I've been seeing this debated in various forms for various things over the years.  Basically, it is should a conservative church excommunicate people and allow no dealings with them or keep them around to try to influence them and help them grow?  And, what list of behaviors constitutes grounds for excommunication?  Some Christians passionately feel that there are certain sins and behaviors that should be immediate grounds for action.  Other Christians passionately feel maintaining ties with people is necessary for their spiritual growth.   This is basically what happens every time a local pastor or church board has to decide if a particular person's sin or behavior is so egregious that they should be kicked out of the church, removed from ministries,  and what requirements are then placed on them for remaining in fellowship or ministry.   From what I read, this appears to be what Hillsong did in this situation.  They removed this person from ministry but allowed them to remain in the church with limitations.  It can of course be debated if this was the best or correct course of action, but that is basically the same debate that occurs every time a pastor and board must decide what to do in this type of situation from the largest megachurch to the smallest local church.  At what point is a person so irredeemable and obstinate that it is in the best interests of the church that we wash our hands and give up on them?

 

[enoob57]

The only rebellion against LIFE can only be death...

[frienduff thaylorde]

What is sad is when some defend these churches and do it in the so called name of love and accuse the others warning folks of being haters .

So be it .    The blood of none will be on my hands .  GET OUT , GET OUT of these churches and warn out against them too .

[Debp]

11 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

A bit of Bing research and reading some articles from a series of sources shows that this person was removed from their position as a worship leader upon coming out.  A few sensationalist headlines made it sound like Hillsong leadership knew about it and did nothing or even paraded it and that this person is still a primary worship leader there.   Now, their choice of what to do (and what they decided to do) when this situation happens is certainly up for discussion, but headlines and innuendos that create the impression that they did nothing or indeed celebrated it appeared to be more based in bias than fact.   I've found that there are some Christians web sites that have such strong and passionate views about the error of certain individuals, churches, and denominations that they seem to believe each and every innuendo and often assume the worst and pass that on as factual.  Hillsong seems to have a number of things that should be openly discussed, but doing so primarily on the basis of innuendo driven headlines is not helpful.

My sense is that churches take 3 main approaches in situations like this, zero-tolerance, limited-tolerance, and open celebration.   Many more liberal churches have taken the route of open celebration.   More conservative churches either take a zero-tolerance stand (there is a list of sins for which you will be kicked out of the church and not allowed to attend at all) or a limited-tolerance stand (there is a list of sins for which you will not be allowed in leadership or ministry positions but you won't be kicked out).  It boils down to what to do with people caught up in and in bondage to something that goes against the standards that church holds.  I've been seeing this debated in various forms for various things over the years.  Basically, it is should a conservative church excommunicate people and allow no dealings with them or keep them around to try to influence them and help them grow?  And, what list of behaviors constitutes grounds for excommunication?  Some Christians passionately feel that there are certain sins and behaviors that should be immediate grounds for action.  Other Christians passionately feel maintaining ties with people is necessary for their spiritual growth.   This is basically what happens every time a local pastor or church board has to decide if a particular person's sin or behavior is so egregious that they should be kicked out of the church, removed from ministries,  and what requirements are then placed on them for remaining in fellowship or ministry.   From what I read, this appears to be what Hillsong did in this situation.  They removed this person from ministry but allowed them to remain in the church with limitations.  It can of course be debated if this was the best or correct course of action, but that is basically the same debate that occurs every time a pastor and board must decide what to do in this type of situation from the largest megachurch to the smallest local church.  At what point is a person so irredeemable and obstinate that it is in the best interests of the church that we wash our hands and give up on them?

 

This brings to my remembrance....A Presbyterian Church which I had to leave after 25 or so years because they went to promoting the gay stuff actively.  Well, they found out their administrator of the church had some kind of police record involving children.   And this church had a daycare/kindergarten operating daily.    They removed (fired or asked him to resign)  him after learning of his record with children.