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Salvation by Grace vs. Works


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19 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

YE shall KNOW THEM how ..............................BY THIER FRUITS ,

.

Yes, Matthew 7:15-23 tells Christians how to differentiate between true and false prophets/pastors/Christians, by looking at their fruits or works or actions, ie good fruits vs bad/evil fruits.

But the good fruits of the Spirit springs forth from faith in Jesus Christ. Scripture says, "Without faith it is impossible to please God".(Hebrews 11:6) Scripture does not say "Without good fruits it is impossible to please God". Hence, a totally-paralysed man who has no fruits to show but has faith in Jesus Christ can still be saved. True Christians who show good fruits are saved from hell by their faith in Jesus Christ, and not by their good fruits of the Spirit. Which comes first, faith or fruits.? Without saving faith, there is no fruits of the Spirit.

So, fruits or works only show the true from the false. Good fruits or works do not save. Only faith in Jesus Christ who was crucified on the Cross for the world, saves.

Edited by discipler777
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23 hours ago, discipler777 said:

.

Romans 5:18-19 = 18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

.

Salvation is accepting by faith the completed acts/works of Jesus Christ on the Cross. None of our good works before or after being saved could save us from hell.

Otoh, after being saved, wilful or ignorant sins or evil works may cause Christians to lose their salvation by losing faith in Christ.(1Cor 5:1-5) Hence, Christians should keep the faith right until the very end whether or not they have good works/fruits or evil works of ignorance or wilfulness, eg Christians who are mentally-disabled, physically-disabled, alcoholics, drug-addicts, HIV+ sufferers, who have been misled by false doctrines, etc.

1 Cor 3:15-16

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
KJV


If it wasn't by works to be saved it will not be by works to remain so.... to believe we are saved not by works then to say we can perish by works is logically inconsistent- Yes = No scenario... Works only indicate the reality of Jesus within the being but can be faked thus it is s/Spiritual essence that determines the reality.... 

Edited by enoob57
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2 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

1 Cor 3:15-16

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

.

Yes, a wilful or ignorant sinning/evil-working/law-breaking Christian will have his/her flesh soon destroyed by Satan but shall still be saved from hell if he/she kept the faith until the very end because salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by works. False Christians have been known to renounce their faith by denying Jesus Christ/God during times of persecution/martyrdom/tribulation, in order to escape persecution or save their lives. Eg during WW2, in occupied Korea, local Korean Christians were required by the Japanese colonial government to bow down and worship the Japanese Emperor.  ...

For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

 

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Genuine faith would not trade one more moment of this life here for itself.... I agree!

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52 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Genuine faith would not trade one more moment of this life here for itself.... I agree!

I agree, although I have prayed: "Lord, I long to come home...but if I am needed--leave me behind-if there is just one soul you desire and I can help...Ill do it. Your will be done" this is sincere and it frightens me that I would be left but not my will, Lord.

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On 10/24/2018 at 2:25 PM, Butero said:

Beware of churches teaching unconditional eternal security and run from them to a church with solid, Biblical instruction.

Yet either Jesus is telling the truth or lying when He says, "Anyone who places/has placed/shall place their trust in Me will NEVER perish."

According to John 3:16, respectfully, I have eternal life or Jesus told a lie.

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1 hour ago, discipler777 said:

.

Yes, Matthew 7:15-23 tells Christians how to differentiate between true and false prophets/pastors/Christians, by looking at their fruits or works or actions, ie good fruits vs bad/evil fruits.

But the good fruits of the Spirit springs forth from faith in Jesus Christ. Scripture says, "Without faith it is impossible to please God".(Hebrews 11:6) Scripture does not say "Without good fruits it is impossible to please God". Hence, a totally-paralysed man who has no fruits to show but has faith in Jesus Christ can still be saved. True Christians who show good fruits are saved from hell by their faith in Jesus Christ, and not by their good fruits of the Spirit. Which comes first, faith or fruits.? Without saving faith, there is no fruits of the Spirit.

So, fruits or works only show the true from the false. Good fruits or works do not save. Only faith in Jesus Christ who was crucified on the Cross for the world, saves.

YES . ONLY FAITH IN CHRIST ALONE SAVES .    We created unto good works in HIM .    This is how it can be seen whether our faith is dead or real .   

a man who continues to live in darkness , no matter if they claim to Love GOD , to KNOW CHRIST ,  we know as John said ,  they are a liar and the truth is not in them.

This is what james was saying that faith without works is dead .     For many can say they have faith , believe ,   but if they are walking in darkness ,  their works will be evil .

And if one is truly of Christ ,   their fruits will show it .   Its also needful for the memebers to exhort one another unto good works , to remind and stir one another up .

To exhort one another daily , lest any does become hardened through the deceitfulness of sin .   Build the body up by The SPIRIT within the members .  FOR IT IS

HE at work within the members .  THAT ONE SAME HOLY SPIRIT .  

You would be surprised that more often than not ,  those who warn out and exhort and say faith without works is dead ,     THEY know this and they simply are stirring up

and remnding ,  yet are often either accused or misunderstood by the many .

BUT we are saved soley by Grace and the truth remains that we are servants to whom we obey , whether of sin unto death or of obedience unto righteousness.

FOR IT IS HIS HOLY SPIRIT , IF we have HIS SPIRIT ,  that is at work in us producing the very works OF the SPIRIT .   

Their is no contradiction between james or paul , between peter or jude or any of them .    THEY KNEW the LORD and they knew HIM in SPIRIT and TRUTH.

THUS every single line they ever wrote ,  ITS ALL GOOD for the body , whether jew or gentile ,   ITS WONDEROUS FOOD for the SOUL

Now, let US HEED the SPIRIT and obey The SPIRIT who works in us that which is well pleasing in HIS SIGHT .

Heed not the flesh ,   HEED ONLY the SPIRIT .   And if any ,   I repeat , and if any does err,   FAST AS LIGHTNING and QUICKER than white gas on fire ,  CORRECT THEM .

And let no man give heed to the wicked contrary  flesh ,  HEED ONLY THE SPIRIT.  And be on guard ,  satan sleeps not ,   He roars about as a savage LION

And by our FAITH in CHRIST alone can we resist Him .    So fear not man or what he can do ,   FOLLOW CHRIST and feast on that BIBLE . 

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1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

You would be surprised that more often than not ,  those who warn out and exhort and say faith without works is dead ,     THEY know this and they simply are stirring up

and remnding ,  yet are often either accused or misunderstood by the many .

BUT we are saved soley by Grace and the truth remains that we are servants to whom we obey , whether of sin unto death or of obedience unto righteousness.

Yes, quite agree. But ...

 

I have come across someone on a forum who misinterpreted Matthew 25:31-46 to say that Christians must non-discriminatingly feed the hungry, feed the thirsty, house the homeless/strangers, cloth the naked, visit the sick and prisoners or they will not be saved = condemned by Jesus Christ to hell at His 2nd Coming to earth. Such an assertion is against the Scripture or Word of Jesus/God(eg John 3:14-18), likely false and will likely send a new or weak Christian on a guilt trip of false Legalism or seeking to be saved by doing this work or that work or by their fruits, and not saved by faith.

Matthew 25:40 mentioned the word "My brethren". So, Jesus Christ was referring to supporting and helping His apostles, and not to every Tom, Dik and Harry. This means faithful Christians should support God's pastors/missionaries/evangelists/workers financially, materially and morally, eg by tithing. Those who don't(= selfishness is a work of the flesh - Galatians 5:19-21) will suffer some kind of curses from God(1Cor 5:5 & 11:30) and then they may likely lose faith in God/Jesus while in suffering for their sins/evil-works = lose salvation, eg Job 2:9.(= curse God/Jesus and die)

I have come across a forum post by a kind US lady Christian who took in a homeless man(= drug addict also) from the street, put him in a caravan on her property, financed him and then experienced all kinds of trouble from him that made her regret her decision. Likely she heeded the above false teaching of Matthew 25:31-46.

It's good for Christians to bear much good fruits/works of the Spirit but not every Christian is the same. A few may not be able to bear much fruits/works of the Spirit due to various negative reasons, especially Gentile Christians, eg the mentally-disabled, physically-disabled, alcoholics, drug addicts, HIV+ sufferers, the sickly, etc. These few should not be condemned as unsaved just because they do not show certain works/fruits as stated in the Bible, as long as they did not hide their less-than-optimum works/fruits, eg secret Christians who fear persecution. Hence the Parable of Talents at Matthew 25:14-30 = those with 5 or 10 talents should not condemn those with only one talent who did not hide their one talent as being unsaved. =

14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own abilityand immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. ...

 

Edited by discipler777
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4 hours ago, discipler777 said:

Yes, quite agree. But ...

 

I have come across someone on a forum who misinterpreted Matthew 25:31-46 to say that Christians must non-discriminatingly feed the hungry, feed the thirsty, house the homeless/strangers, cloth the naked, visit the sick and prisoners or they will not be saved = condemned by Jesus Christ to hell at His 2nd Coming to earth. Such an assertion is against the Scripture or Word of Jesus/God(eg John 3:14-18), likely false and will likely send a new or weak Christian on a guilt trip of false Legalism or seeking to be saved by doing this work or that work or by their fruits, and not saved by faith.

Matthew 25:40 mentioned the word "My brethren". So, Jesus Christ was referring to supporting and helping His apostles, and not to every Tom, Dik and Harry. This means faithful Christians should support God's pastors/missionaries/evangelists/workers financially, materially and morally, eg by tithing. Those who don't(= selfishness is a work of the flesh - Galatians 5:19-21) will suffer some kind of curses from God(1Cor 5:5 & 11:30) and then they may likely lose faith in God/Jesus while in suffering for their sins/evil-works = lose salvation, eg Job 2:9.(= curse God/Jesus and die)

I have come across a forum post by a kind US lady Christian who took in a homeless man(= drug addict also) from the street, put him in a caravan on her property, financed him and then experienced all kinds of trouble from him that made her regret her decision. Likely she heeded the above false teaching of Matthew 25:31-46.

It's good for Christians to bear much good fruits/works of the Spirit but not every Christian is the same. A few may not be able to bear much fruits/works of the Spirit due to various negative reasons, especially Gentile Christians, eg the mentally-disabled, physically-disabled, alcoholics, drug addicts, HIV+ sufferers, the sickly, etc. These few should not be condemned as unsaved just because they do not show certain works/fruits as stated in the Bible, as long as they did not hide their less-than-optimum works/fruits, eg secret Christians who fear persecution. Hence the Parable of Talents at Matthew 25:14-30 = those with 5 or 10 talents should not condemn those with only one talent who did not hide their one talent as being unsaved. =

14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own abilityand immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them. ...

 

Most folks miss that .      What you have done unto the least of these ,  MY BRETHREN .   JESUS SAYS HIS BRETHREN .    unbelievers are not brethren.

Now ,  by all means we should help even our enemies as JESUS said .  BUT this is concerning BELEIVERS .    You visited me in prison ,     THAT IS TALKING about BELIEVERS

like say paul for example .  HE was in prison and onesimus took good care of him .    Most have made this into something IT IS NOT .

However again ,  we should give to those in need ,  but it also says Specially to those of the household of GOD .

Yep ,  lots of folks mess that up .     Not many see this .      YOU do a double leap to the LORD and PRAISE HIS NAME .     Just don't ever forget we also feed our enemies too .

But YOU RIGHT , this is about the brethren .    

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10 hours ago, FreDdy08 said:

I agree, although I have prayed: "Lord, I long to come home...but if I am needed--leave me behind-if there is just one soul you desire and I can help...Ill do it. Your will be done" this is sincere and it frightens me that I would be left but not my will, Lord.

 There is nothing to fear if you are in The Will of God for He has given this promise

Matt 7:21

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
KJV

 

Edited by enoob57
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