When do Revelations seals open

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Judea flee's at the mid point of the 70th week, at the A of D.

Sorry, but Daniel 9:27 tells us the abomination will divide the week in half. Paul tells us the man of sin will enter the most holy place and desecrate it. The daily sacrifices will cease. It will mark the exact midpoint of the week - marked by the 7th trumpet. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by iamlamad

[Dennis1209]

Without going into detail. I'm of the opinion a couple of the seals could be opened prior to the official start of the tribulation (Antichrist confirms a covenant with many). I see nothing that the first few seals has to be contained within the seven year tribulation period. I do see that the coming of our Lord is close at hand though.

[Heb 13:8]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Somehow the Holy spirit failed to show that part to John and he did not write it.  Could it be that Jesus had something else in mind? The sign of Jupiter would have come months before the night of His birth.

John saw the vision in the heavens Iam, the heavens where the sun, moon, stars and constellations live. God bless.

[Heb 13:8]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

² And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

³ Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

When one understands what is happening, everything is chronological. There is no layering. 

Have you ever watched a play where they closed the curtain to rearrange the set? That is exactly what John is doing. He broke from his mainline them of the seals between the 6th and 7th because the 7th seal opens the 70th week -  and the set must be rearranged before the 7th seal can be opened: two events must occur: the 44,000 must be sealed for their protection, and dthe church must be safely seen in heaven - and that is exactly what chapter 7 shows us.

The four angels must NOT hurt the earth before the sealing is accomplished. The four angels then wait for the sealing to be accomplished. Everything is done in order. 

Iam, there is layering because the Rev 12 sign is just that, it's a sign pointing to things to come. The sign is not the action, it's the warning.

STRONGS NT 4592: σημεῖον

σημεῖον, σημείου, τό (σημαίνω (or σῆμα)), from Aeschylus and Herodotus down, Hebrew אות, a sign, mark, token;

1. universally, that by which a person or a thing is distinguished from others and known: Matthew 26:48; Luke 2:12; 2 Thessalonians 3:17; σημεῖον περιτομῆς (explanatory genitive (cf. Buttmann, § 123, 4)), equivalent to σημεῖον, ὁ ἐστι περιτομή, circumcision which should be a sign of the covenant formed with God, Romans 4:11; τά σημεῖα τοῦ ἀποστόλου, the tokens by which one is proved to be an apostle, 2 Corinthians 12:12; a sign by which anything future is pre-announced, Mark 13:4; Luke 21:7; τό σημεῖον τῆς σής παρουσίας, genitive of the object, Matthew 24:3; τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, the sign which indicates that the Messiah will shortly, or forthwith, come from heaven in visible manifestation, Matthew 24:30; with a genitive of the subjunctive τά σημεῖα τῶν καιρῶν, i. e. the indications of future events which οἱ καιροί furnish, what οἱ καιροί portend, Matthew 16:3 (T brackets WH reject the passage); a sign by which one is warned, an admonition, 1 Corinthians 14:22. used of noteworthy personages, by whom God forcibly admonishes men and indicates to them what he would have them do: thus σημεῖον ἀντιλεγόμενον is said of Jesus Christ, Luke 2:34; Ἰωνᾶς ἐγένετο σημεῖον τοῖς Νινευίταις (Jonah 3:4), Luke 11:30; hence, τό σημεῖον Ἰωνᾶ, Luke 11:29, is equivalent to τό σημεῖον like to that ὅς ἦν Ἰωνᾶς, i. e. to the sign which was given by the mission and preaching of Jonah, to prompt men to seek salvation (Winer's Grammar, 189 (177)); in the same sense, ὁ υἱός τοῦ ἀνθρώπου says that he will be a σημεῖον, to the men of his generation, Luke 11:30; but in Matthew 12:39; Matthew 16:4 τό σημεῖον Ἰωνᾶ is the miraculous experience which befell Jonah himself, cf. Matthew 12:40; that Luke reproduces Christ's words more correctly than Matthew is shown by De Wette and Bleek on Matthew 12:40, by Neander, Leben Jesu, p. 265f edition 1 (English translation, (3rd edition N. Y. 1851) § 165, p. 245f), and others; (but that Luke's report is less full than Matthew's, rather than at variance with it, is shown by Meyer, Weiss, Keil, and others (on Matthew, the passage cited)).

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

¹⁵ And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

¹⁶ And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Why would anyone imagine this was accomplished in chapter 4? 

First, we know that God is not going to harvest humans with a sickle. It is symbolic. Could we call the beheaded arriving in heaven as a harvest? I don't see why not. Chapter 14 shows us a harvest of the righteous and a harvest of the sinner. This is a symbolic and prophetic view of all those who will die from this time on in the week. The beheaded will be the righteous. All or most of those killed at the battle or Armageddon will be the harvesting of the unjust - to include the parable of the tares. 

I see this is prophetic, not out of sequence. The beheadings will begin in chapter 14 or after chapter 14.

Of course it's symbolic. It's symbolic of the rapture (1 Thess 4:17, Rev chapter 4-5, Rev 12:5, Rev 14:14-16) and also the second coming (Matt 24:31, Rev 14:17-20). Iam, the main harvest consists of believers in Christ in the grace period, and the gleanings are the tribulation saints.

Lev 23:22 "'When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you. I am the LORD your God.'"

[Heb 13:8]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but Daniel 9:27 tells us the abomination will divide the week in half. Paul tells us the man of sin will enter the most holy place and desecrate it. The daily sacrifices will cease. It will mark the exact midpoint of the week - marked by the 7th trumpet. 

 

Quote

Judea flee's at the mid point of the 70th week, at the A of D. - Heb

?

[Heb 13:8]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

...

You still didn't answer my question. If the birth of the church was in Acts 2:1-4, then where was the conception??

[iamlamad]

27 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

You still didn't answer my question. If the birth of the church was in Acts 2:1-4, then where was the conception??

I have said it seems  all silliness to me because God did not give us any verses mentioning the "conception" or "birth" of the church. You coined these ideas yourself. What difference does your distinctions make? If they were important God would have told us.

i said before, the church was conceived in the mind of God before earth was created.

Anyway, you missed the real birth. If the church was "born," it was born in the upper room. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

31 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

 

?

And WHERE do we find that fleeing in Revelation? It is in 12:6. The midpoint then must be just before that. It is at the 7th trumpet.

[iamlamad]

37 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Of course it's symbolic. It's symbolic of the rapture (1 Thess 4:17, Rev chapter 4-5, Rev 12:5, Rev 14:14-16) and also the second coming (Matt 24:31, Rev 14:17-20). Iam, the main harvest consists of believers in Christ in the grace period, and the gleanings are the tribulation saints.

Lev 23:22 "'When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and for the foreigner residing among you. I am the LORD your God.'"

Sorry, but a prophecy is for the future, not the past. AT this point in John's narrative, he is pasts the midpoint and the rapture will have occurred over 3.5 years earlier. This passage in chapter 14 is about FUTURE events from chapter 14 perspective. You have very little respect for John's chronology - probably because you just don't understand it.