ROMANS 14 and homosexuality

[Billiards Ball]

I don't know why she was removed from the thread, but I would encourage others in similar situation to stick to logic and scripture--and help brothers and sisters adhere more closely to God's Word.

[thomas t]

On 11/13/2018 at 6:41 PM, Billiards Ball said:

a secular therapist reported that of 300 gay men he'd counseled, 298 either had same sex abuse or a bad relationship with their father early in life.

 

Hi Billiards Ball,

you didn't back that assertion up by providing links, etc. ...

To me, this comes across as if you were saying "if it's the gays, tell no matter what stories about them and don't bother to back this up by facts!"

 

 

DISCLAIMER: I am neutral to the whether or not homosexuality is a sin.

 

Regards,

Thomas

[Guest shiloh357]

17 minutes ago, thomas t said:

 

 

 

DISCLAIMER: I am neutral to the whether or not homosexuality is a sin.

 

Regards,

Thomas

God says it is a sin and something He abhors, so yes it is a sin.  We should not be neutral on that.

[Billiards Ball]

1 hour ago, thomas t said:

 

Hi Billiards Ball,

you didn't back that assertion up by providing links, etc. ...

To me, this comes across as if you were saying "if it's the gays, tell no matter what stories about them and don't bother to back this up by facts!"

 

 

DISCLAIMER: I am neutral to the whether or not homosexuality is a sin.

 

Regards,

Thomas

Hi Thomas,

I did back my assertion--I've testified that every person I've encountered, gay friends and family, and via witnessing, agrees--they had a distant same sex parent/guardian and/or were indoctrinated in their youth. Every person.

[thomas t]

21 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

I did back my assertion--I've testified that every person I've encountered, gay friends and family, and via witnessing, agrees--they had a distant same sex parent/guardian and/or were indoctrinated in their youth. Every person.

But, your assertion was:

On 11/13/2018 at 6:41 PM, Billiards Ball said:

 a secular therapist reported that of 300 gay men he'd counseled, 298 either had same sex abuse or a bad relationship with their father early in life.

and again:

On 11/14/2018 at 4:04 PM, Billiards Ball said:

a secular counselor who found two root causes for 298 of 300 [gay] men?

and again:

On 11/15/2018 at 6:27 PM, Billiards Ball said:

2) I consider genetics, hormones, etc. Will you consider the psychologist who counseled 300 gay men, finding the same among 298, with no Christian agenda?

So please, that's your story. You didn't back that up, Billiards Ball

 

Regards,

Thomas

[Billiards Ball]

37 minutes ago, thomas t said:

But, your assertion was:

and again:

and again:

So please, that's your story. You didn't back that up, Billiards Ball

 

Regards,

Thomas

And my agenda for lying about this is...?

Let's be Socratic. Talk to some gay people. Find out more. Prove me right or wrong. Then we can discuss the difference between heritable and inherited genetic traits and etc.

Thanks.

[thomas t]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

We should not be neutral on that.

Hi Shiloh,

for now I want to keep the focus on stories about gays without the necessary back up information. Noone complained about that in the thread, so let me be the first to do that.

At the same time I don't want to discuss homosexuality.

For I think it is ok to keep the focus on 1 issue and not two at the same time.

If these two get intervowen, then people appear to only concentrate on the debate about homosexuality but not on the way we treat gays.

I think, for me it's perfectly ok to stay neutral on that if the situation is like that.

Regards,

Thomas

------

Hi Billiards Ball,

3 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

Prove me right or wrong

no, you came up with that story. So, the onus is on you to document it if you can.

 

Regards,

Thomas

[Billiards Ball]

33 minutes ago, thomas t said:

Hi Shiloh,

for now I want to keep the focus on stories about gays without the necessary back up information. Noone complained about that in the thread, so let me be the first to do that.

At the same time I don't want to discuss homosexuality.

For I think it is ok to keep the focus on 1 issue and not two at the same time.

If these two get intervowen, then people appear to only concentrate on the debate about homosexuality but not on the way we treat gays.

I think, for me it's perfectly ok to stay neutral on that if the situation is like that.

Regards,

Thomas

------

Hi Billiards Ball,

no, you came up with that story. So, the onus is on you to document it if you can.

 

Regards,

Thomas

I didn't "come up with a story". I reported that my findings matched that of a secular counselor, neither of us having a biased agenda.

Obviously, you find this fact overwhelming/amazing because you can see the statistical significance involved.

Sexual imprinting is true among humans and the animal kingdom. When a person's first sexual encounter is with a same sex abuser, pre-pubescent, the imprint is strong. And a lot of homosexuality is a curiosity/desire to know more about one's absent caregiver.

There are other factors that tend toward homosexuality, including hormonal drive--studies have shown that more libidinous people (naturally) tend toward adultery outside marriage and/or homosexual expression--lust, naturally, drives to seek outlets.

This makes homosexuality a heritable trait--people with genetic drives are more likely to--rather than "inherited". In other words, as always, the Bible is right--here where it teaches lust plus cultural acceptance of sinful norms lead to increased indulgence in sinful sexuality and sensuality.

I do not have the reference handy for the statistic from the counselor, however, I do remember reading this and thinking "Ah!!!" and since that time, every person I've spoken with also has this factor(s) in their personal background. I've even counseled people who said they wanted counsel because a friend was dealing with homosexual desire and when I said, "same sex abuse and/or distant relationship with same sex parent", they said, "Oh! Okay! It's me, not my 'friend' and I've had that/those in my own life."

[Billiards Ball]

Further details:

 

The family environment

Most nurture theories focus on the parent-child relationship. Male homosexuals often have a dominant, supportive mother and a weak, remote or hostile father.[46] Lesbians may have had a dysfunctional mother-daughter relationship. This view has been popularised by Elisabeth Moberly who believes that homosexual orientation is the result of unmet same sex-love needs in childhood.[47]

Martin Hallett, Director and Counsellor at True Freedom Trust, has found that the majority of male homosexuals counselled identified very much with this lack of intimate bonding with the father or any other male role model.[48] The heterosexual identity is not established and the unaffirmed child later suffers from a lack of confidence and fear of failure in heterosexual contacts. He tries to meet his unmet same-sex needs through sexual relationships. Sara Lawton,[49] a Christian counsellor specialising in lesbianism and sex-abuse, sees the root of female homosexuality as an unmet need for mother love which becomes sexualised in the adult and may be compounded by repressed trauma such as adoption and sexual abuse.

The parent-child relationship can also be disturbed through death or divorce. Saghir and Robins found that 18% of homosexual men and 35% of lesbians had lost their father through death or divorce by the age of ten. The figures for heterosexuals were 9% and 4% respectively.[50] Up to 70% of homosexual adults describe themselves as having been 'sissies' or 'tomboys' as children;[51] still, most adult homosexuals do not fit the effeminate male or masculine female stereotype.

 

Source: https://www.cmf.org.uk/resources/publications/content/?context=article&id=630

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

If you do not wish to discuss homosexuality, then you should not participate in the thread.  The thread is about homosexuality.  That is the subject of the thread.

We are not discussing how gays are treated.   One of the oft heard sentiments in threads like this from people who have no wish to confront homosexuality as a sin, call it same, and speak out against it is that the Church mistreats people when they call something they do a sin.  That is not mistreatment.  It is a statement of fact.  Homosexuality is a sin.  Therefore, if a person is engaged in that particular sin, if they are going to accept Jesus as their Savior, the expectation is that that sin stops.  Period.

Billiards Ball is speaking from personal experience.  You wish to discount that because it does not fit in with what you have already decided in the matter.  Homosexuality is not genetically predisposed.  That is a lie and always has been.  Homosexuality results, in most cases, as a result of certain sets of circumstances in upbringing and social experience.  This is confirmed in several studies, but the APA doesn't like them since the militant gay movement blackmailed the APA into changing the wording about homosexuality as a disorder in the DSM in the 70's.  Even then, genetics would not excuse the behavior.  Who you have sex with is still a personal choice.

They want so hard to believe that cobalt .  so hard .  WELL heres another dart .   IF homosexuality is GENTIC , then why was one of my identical twin uncles gay and the other NOT .

EXACTLY .  expose the sham cobalt .  Expose it .