Those Days Will Be Shortened

[iamlamad]

Just now, childoftheking said:

 

That is all well and good, but Paul never did specify the Gathering of the Elect was before, during, or after Tribulation.

But the good thing is, YESHUA (BETTER KNOWN AS GOD AND MESSIAH) did specify these things in Matthew 24.  Mark and Luke reiterate them and so does the Book of Acts!!

Of course Paul did: but you have missed it. He tells us that the rapture will come JUST before wrath. Wrath begins at the 6th seal and John saw the raptured church in heaven in the next chapter.

[childoftheking]

Just now, iamlamad said:

Of course Paul did: but you have missed it. He tells us that the rapture will come JUST before wrath. Wrath begins at the 6th seal and John saw the raptured church in heaven in the next chapter.

 

 

Matthew 24:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

This shows the specified events and how it will happen.

 

(1) God begins with Great Trib begins

(2) Because the ELECT will be in that Trib, God will shorten the days

(3) Trib ends

(4) sun darkens

(5) moon to blood

(6) YESHUA RETURNS!!

(7) Angels gather the ELECT!!

 

 

Can't believe you would take Paul's word over God!!

[childoftheking]

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Verse 31 shows us the ELECT is not the Jews who get saved during the Trib because they will all be at Petra.   And verse 31 says the Angels will GATHER THE ELECT from the 4 CORNERS..all over the Earth!!   This means Christians!!

 

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

And verse 30 specifies ALL TRIBES, not just Jews will be watching Yeshua return.

Edited April 28, 2019 by childoftheking

[childoftheking]

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Nestle 1904
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort 1881
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ' ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως τῶν ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Westcott and Hort / [NA27 and UBS4 variants]
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ' ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως τῶν ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος φωνῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων, ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox Church
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος φωνῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσι τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Edition
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος φωνῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσι τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων, ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ 24:31 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος φωνῆς μεγάλης καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσιν τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων ἀπ' ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν

 

 

All Greek transcripts from 1550 till now specify the Elect means US, not just the Jews!!

[childoftheking]

ἐκλεκτοὺ

Translations of elect
Verb Frequency
ἐκλεκτοὺ = elect

Edited April 28, 2019 by childoftheking

[Last Daze]

12 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Daze, this theory is total and complete MYTH. It is classical prewrath theory that was wrong from the beginning.  This theory forces a rewrite and rearranging of most of Revelation. 

The TRUTH is, in Rev. 6, the seals are opened that are sealing a book. What is IN the book is what we read in Revelation after the 7th seal is opened. In other words, what is in the book is THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL.  We know from other scriptures that the abomination event will cause the daily sacrifices to cease and divide the week into two halves. That midpoint is found in chapter 11.  Chapter 13 explains what will CAUSE the days of great tribulation: an image and a mark. People will be forced to worship the image and take the mark or lose their head. A GREAT manhunt will be undertaken to find ANYONE who will refuse to worship or take the mark. Those will be the days of GT. We read that the beheaded BEGIN to show up in heaven in chapter 15. NOT chapter 6, but chapter 15. You are 9 chapters off in your theory! 

The TRUTH is, judgment begins at the 6th seal, as you say, and continues through the trumpet judgments in the first half of the week and through the vial judgments in the last half of the week. The days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of will come in the last half of the week, starting right after the abomination (chapter 11). 

Th TRUTH is, seals 1 through 5 are CHURCH AGE, not days of GT. Your theory is thousands of years off! Seal 1 is the church sent out with the gospel: 32 AD. Seals 2 through 4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. Seal 5 is the martyrs of the church age. Stephen was surely one of them.

The TRUTH is:  there is a HUGE difference between the church age and the days of GT.

Readers: beware of prewrath theory that must rearrange most of Revelation to fit.  Always remember this axiom on Revelation:

ANY  theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology to make it fit is immediately suspect and WILL BE proven wrong. 

The days of GT in Revelation will start AFTER God gives His warning not to take the mark as seen in chapter 14.

I think you have me confused with someone else.  

Always remember this axiom: Prophecy will be fulfilled according to what God has foretold regardless of any spin we try to put on it.

The truth is:  according to scripture, our gathering to Him occurs when He sounds the last trumpet on the last day.  This takes place on the day of the Lord which comes like a thief in the night after the armies have gathered for Armageddon (Rev 16:13-16).  It will require patiently enduring to the end while holding to the testimony of Jesus. 

• “Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.  It is like a man away on a journey, whoupon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert. Therefore, be on the alert—for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning— in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.  What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’”  Mark 13:33-37

The message is clear.  Be ready.  Stay ready.

[iamlamad]

8 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I think you have me confused with someone else.  

Always remember this axiom: Prophecy will be fulfilled according to what God has foretold regardless of any spin we try to put on it.

The truth is:  according to scripture, our gathering to Him occurs when He sounds the last trumpet on the last day.  This takes place on the day of the Lord which comes like a thief in the night after the armies have gathered for Armageddon (Rev 16:13-16).  It will require patiently enduring to the end while holding to the testimony of Jesus. 

• “Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.  It is like a man away on a journey, whoupon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert. Therefore, be on the alert—for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning— in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.  What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’”  Mark 13:33-37

The message is clear.  Be ready.  Stay ready.

"according to scripture, our gathering to Him occurs when He sounds the last trumpet on the last day. " 

This is myth: you added to scripture. You put two thoughts for two separate scriptures together as if they were in  context with each other. 

TRUTH: the rapture of the church will come at the last trump. But NOWHERE can we find a scripture that tells us this "last trump" Paul spoke of would come "on the last day."  That is the myth part. 

Paul is very consistent with himself: Jesus does come for His church: it is a "coming." But this coming is only to the clouds. Paul never mentions a touch down. Paul also sets the timing of this coming and the sounds associated with it. Yes, there will be a trumpet of God (NOT some trumpet sounded by an angel) and a shout and a voice of an angel. But WHEN? Paul tells us: it will be just a moment before God's wrath begins.  Paul teaches us that two groups of people get two different and separate results AT THE SAME MOMENT IN TIME: those living in Christ get salvation - they get raptured: caught up - but those living in darkness get "sudden destruction" that is the wrath of God. God sets appointments to wrath for those living in darkness, NOT those living in the light. So while the church gets caught up, those left behind get sudden destuction,  and this sudden destruction is the start of God's wrath of judgment. 

Where then do we find the start of God's wrath in Revelation? Of course at the 6th seal. Do we find anything at the 6th seal that could be "sudden destruction?" Certainly we do: a great earthquake.  Did you not read in Matthew 27 that when Jesus rose, He also rose some of the Old Testament saints with Him? They came out of their graves and were seen by others. But Matthew makes the point that at a resurrection of the dead, there WILL BE an earthquake.  Make no mistake here: when God raises the dead in Christ, this rising will cause a worldwide earthquake - because the dead in Christ will be found the world around.  It will be an earthquake exactly like we read at the 6th seal. What am I saying? That earthquake at the 6th seal is Paul's sudden destruction.

It is NO MISTAKE that John then saw the raptured church shortly after and wrote of it in chapter 7.  Conclusion? The rapture will certainly take place before the wrath of God - but JUST before. Oh, one more point: this sudden beginning of God's wrath at the 6th seal is also the beginning of the dreaded Day of the Lord. It is the Day of the Lord and it is the Day of His wrath.  Therefore, all trumpet judgments will come with His wrath. 

Who then gets raised up on the last day? Of course, those to whom Jesus was speaking to: the JEWS.  The "rapture" or resurrection of the Old Testament saints will happen on the last 24 hours of the 70th week of Daniel. Did you notice that the world's worst earthquake comes at the 7th vial that ends the week? When God raises those who died before the flood, that resurrection will cause the worst earthquake this earth has ever seen. We see that earthquake at the 7th vial. Notice also that the marriage and supper has waiting for the Old Testament saints to arrive in heaven.

Therefore, I find the scriptures themselves prove your theory a myth.

[iamlamad]

On 4/27/2019 at 7:42 PM, childoftheking said:

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Verse 31 shows us the ELECT is not the Jews who get saved during the Trib because they will all be at Petra.   And verse 31 says the Angels will GATHER THE ELECT from the 4 CORNERS..all over the Earth!!   This means Christians!!

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And verse 30 specifies ALL TRIBES, not just Jews will be watching Yeshua return.

Sorry, this is MYTH: pure and simple. When we put Luke and Matthew together, this gathering gathers from BOTH heaven and earth - the furthermost reaches of both places. It is plain to all that Paul's rapture gather FROM THE EARTH. Therefore this gathering in Matthew cannot possibly be Paul's rapture.

Next, Paul's rapture comes a moment before God's wrath begins - and we find that beginning of wrath at the 6th seal. Note carefully that the 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church age - and they are told they will have to wait until ALL church age martyrs have been killed before judgment can come. God has a number that will fulfill the martyrs of the church age. Judgment will not come until this number is reached. In other words, they must wait for the rapture that ENDS the church age and ends the martyrs of the church age.  The 5th seal then tells us that those under the altar must wait until the rapture that will come a moment before God's wrath - and His wrath begins at the 6th seal - and John then SAW the raptured church in heaven shortly after the 6th seal. It is all laid out plainly and simply. 

Actually, just reading Matthew should tell anyone reading that it could not be Paul's rapture:  "from one end of heaven to the other."  Yes, we all know the Greek behind that word "heaven" could mean the air we breath, but it could also mean the third heaven. We all know, the rapture will gather from the earth. This verse simply does not fit the rapture. 

NOT "four corners!" It is the four winds. That just means for all directions. This gathering is going to gather all Jews and Hebrews from BOTH heaven and earth - from ALL OVER heaven and ALL OVER the earth. Again, this simply does not fit Paul's rapture.

Edited May 4, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, childoftheking said:

 

 

Matthew 24:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

This shows the specified events and how it will happen.

(1) God begins with Great Trib begins

(2) Because the ELECT will be in that Trib, God will shorten the days

(3) Trib ends

(4) sun darkens

(5) moon to blood

(6) YESHUA RETURNS!!

(7) Angels gather the ELECT!!

Can't believe you would take Paul's word over God!!

We all know that BOTH what Paul wrote and what Matthew wrote is TRUTH.  We also know they must agree. 

THE TRUTH then, is that Paul's rapture is something different than this gathering and happens at a different time with different people. 

OF COURSE there will be a gathering when Jesus comes. But the truth is, the CHURCH will be coming WITH HIM. This gathering will be to gather the Jews from all parts of heaven and all parts of earth.

[childoftheking]

13 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, this is MYTH: pure and simple. When we put Luke and Matthew together, this gathering gathers from BOTH heaven and earth - the furthermost reaches of both places. It is plain to all that Paul's rapture gather FROM THE EARTH. Therefore this gathering in Matthew cannot possibly be Paul's rapture.

Next, Paul's rapture comes a moment before God's wrath begins - and we find that beginning of wrath at the 6th seal. Note carefully that the 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church age - and they are told they will have to wait until ALL church age martyrs have been killed before judgment can come. God has a number that will fulfill the martyrs of the church age. Judgment will not come until this number is reached. In other words, they must wait for the rapture that ENDS the church age and ends the martyrs of the church age.  The 5th seal then tells us that those under the altar must wait until the rapture that will come a moment before God's wrath - and His wrath begins at the 6th seal - and John then SAW the raptured church in heaven shortly after the 6th seal. It is all laid out plainly and simply. 

Actually, just reading Matthew should tell anyone reading that it could not be Paul's rapture:  "from one end of heaven to the other."  Yes, we all now the Greek behind that word "heaven" could mean the air we breath, but it could also mean the third heaven. We all know, the rapture will gather from the earth. This verse simply does not fit the rapture. 

NOT "four corners!" It is the four winds. That just means for all directions. This gathering is going to gather all Jews and Hebrews from BOTH heaven and earth - from ALL OVER heaven and ALL OVER the earth. Again, this simply does not fit Paul's rapture.

 

Anyone that takes factual Word of God, ESPECIALLY the Words coming from God, and draws the conclusion it is a MYTH, is someone I need to REBUKE, not pay any more attention to!!