Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, Spock said:

up front I will tell you, verse 27, especially the second half is not easy for me to interpret. Even the commentaries confuse me. But when in trouble I look to the Bible to interpret the Bible. 

Thus, I interpret that verse using the following three sources:

1. Daniel 12:11

2. Matt 24:15

3. 2 Thess 2:4

All three of these verses are easier for me to interpret.  If so inclined, I would be interested in reading How you would interpret those 3  verses? 

Remember when I posted this BELOW in another post ?

Except they show up 75 days before the DOTL/First Seal is opened. If I tell you how I came to that understanding of 75 days right now it might make you think I am cuckoo for coco puffs. No one gets it......yet. But I feel very confident I am right because it fits everything else like a glove.

Well now is the time to go there, it fits on here. This is wild stuff. I am going to explain the 1260, 1290, and 1335 !!

Lets reverse engineer it before I even go there, let's look at Dan. 9:27 first to see what it really means.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

1.) Confirm = gabar 1396 (Hebrew Word) meaning to be strong, to prevail or to act insolently.
2.) Oblation = minchah 4503 (Hebrew)  A tribute or an offering 
3.) Overspreading = kanaph 3671 (Hebrew) An edge, a Wing or Quarter (of a building) a pinnacle. 
4.) Abominations = shiqquwts 8251 (Hebrew) Meaning,  Disgusting, Filthy, Idolatrous or AN IDOL !! 
5.) Desolate = shamem 8074 (Hebrew) Meaning to Stun, Grow Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !!

So looking at these original Hebrew word Translations, what is this verse (Daniel 9:27) really telling us ? Does it match up with other end time events ? Let's delve into it !! Basically this is what I get from verse 27.

Daniel 9:27 The Anti-Christ will FORCE and Agreement (Covenant means agreement) on Israel and MANY others in the Mediterranean Sea Region Nations.  He does so Insolently, his agenda Prevails, he forces this deal. Then after 3 1/2 years he stops allowing the Oblation or Tribute, (I think to Jesus, who Israel accepts as their Messiah before the Day of the Lord as it says in Malachi 4:5-6) by Israel unto their God, the False Prophet places an IDOL in a Wing or a pinnacle of the TEMPLE and demands all people to worship this IDOL or else they must die. THIS STUNS/SHOCKS Israel, then they heed Jesus' words, they Flee unto the Wilderness where they are protected by God for 1260 Days, because Elijah turned them back to the Messiah (Zechariah 12:10) before the Day of the Lord.

Daniel 9:27 shorter version........The Anti-Christ will force/renew a Peace Deal on Israel, in the Middle of this deal he will renege on his deal, and order the False Prophet to place an Image of the Beast (IDOL) in the Temple, and demand all mankind to worship this Image. This Stuns/devastates Israel. 

Do further scriptures agree with this account ? Rev. 13:14 is about the False Prophet or Second Beast from the earth {a Jewish High Priest}.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

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Matthew 24:15 is of course about the End Times, verse 21 tells us it is about the Greatest Troubles ever, and Dan. 12:1-2 tell us that is END TIMES, anyone not admitting that would just rather cling to their ole Men's Traditions. It's not even a question that can be asked to tell the truth. 

The Interesting verse however is Daniel 12:11, and that is what the BLUE EMPHASIS I gave above concerns. But it has to be looked at in conjunction with Daniel 12:12 as well as Daniel 12:7, they all fit together.

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So what is the 1290, the 1335 and the Time, times and half time {1260} which Rev. 12 explains as 1260 days ? 

We must start in verse 6 & 7, where Jesus {Man of Linen} tells or explains untio Daniel about the End Times, and what will be the END OF THESE WONDERS. An Angel asks what will be the end of these wonders in verse 6 then Jesus replies, this is the KEY to understanding Daniel 12:11-12.

Dan. 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half {1260 days}; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So what does this mean ? The odd way of writing basically means this, Jesus tells Daniel or swares that from the time the Holy people/Jews are Conquered {power scattered} until all of these "WONDERS CEASE/END" there will be 1260 days. Well we know this actually fits the Daniel 9:27 prophecy in that the Anti-Christ RENEGES on his Agreements in the Middle of the 70th week, thus the middle of Seven Years = 1260 days. So from the time the Anti-Christ or Little Horn Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be 1260 days until Jesus RETURNS to end the Wonders Daniel has seen in visions. In other words, it will be 1260 days from the time the Jews are Conquered {Beast rules 42 months} until the Second Coming. {THAT IS THE EASY PART, LOL}

Everyone gets that, no one gets Daniel 12:11-12, they think I am off my rocker, but I am not.

NOTICE: Jesus tells Daniel to go his way, everything is locked up until the end times, but Daniel PERSISTS with this question again....And Jesus answers with more information, but everyone misses the fact that it correlates with the VERSE 6 question of WHEN WILL THESE WONDERS END.

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

So Daniel's question is just like the Angels question !! And thus Jesus' answer should be seen likewise as how many days shall "THESE EVENTS LAST", until these WONDERS CEASE/END {Second Coming}. But almost everyone sees these two numbers as referencing a time that runs into the New  Millennium, but that makes no sense at all in reality. The problem is, most people do not understand/see the obvious, that these NUMBERS are TWO EVENTS, that like the 1260 {Jews Conquered} are events that happen a "set number of days" until the Second Coming". In other words, I was shown something because I saw that the 1290 could not be referencing a New  Millennium Event !! It either had to be 30 days before the 1260 Event or 30 days afterwards. Thus I had to figure out which side it was on, because the 1290 was the Abomination of Desolation. So WHAT FIT ? 

I pondered and sought the Lord's guidance of course, and suddenly I saw the light, how can the Abomination of Desolation happen 30 days after the Holy peoples are "SCATTERED" or Conquered to the point where they Flee Judea, when Jesus WARNS THEM TO FLEE, when they see the AoD {1290}, thus it made  no sense, nor did it fit the narrative Jesus gave us in Matt. 24:15-17, so the 1290 EVENT {AoD} had to be 30 days BEFORE the 1260 Event {Scattering of the Jews}. BOOM............I thought to myself, I have solved the riddle of these NUMBERS in Daniel chapter 12, but now I had to see if this jibed with the Scriptures of course. Sometimes I think I have solved a riddle, only to find out it doesn't fit other Scriptures and thus is a dud !! DO THIS FIT ? 

I thought, does this fit the Scriptures are am I off my rocker here !! Does the 1290 Event come before the 1260 Event, and thus if it does the 1335 would also have to come BEFORE the 1290 Event, so off I went on my journey unto truth. Well, it did make sense that Jesus would give a "Sign" that the Jewish people could see, whereas they would have fled Judea before they were Conquered !! I mean why not warn the Jews to Flee BEFORE the Anti-Christ Conquers the Holy Peoples to become the Beast ? So that made perfect sense. But how could the AoD be placed in the Temple BEFORE the Beast set foot in Jerusalem ? Was that even possible ? Well yes, I saw that it was using logic and past events, not only was it possible, it kind of fit Rev. 13 because it is the False Prophet that places THE IMAGE of the Beast into the Temple and DEMANDS that all men worship the Beast !! So an outside force {Anti-Christ} exerting pressure on an entity he is about to Conquer, is not odd at all, many nations tried to appease Hitler back in the day to no avail, but a Jewish High Priest like unto JASON might very well sell his people out, especially if 1/3 had become born again Messianic Jews, because as we know, some of these Jews in Israel today, HATE their fellow Jewish brothers when they convert to Christianity !! So having a High Priest STOP the Daily {SACRIFICE WAS AN ADDED WORD] Oblation unto Jesus and placing an Image of the European President in the Temple would FIT what Revelation 13 tells us happens. {Rev. 13:14 speaks about the False Prophet}

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 

By this time I am getting excited, I am giddy with my findings, but I have yet to tackle the 1335 Event, this has TO FIT also, so what could the 1335 be ? It had to be 1335 days before the Second Coming, just like the 1290 Event {AoD}, and the 1260 Event {Jews Conquered} both are a "SET NUMBER OF DAYS" until the Second Coming of Jesus. So what could the 1335 possibly be ? Verse 12 states that it is a BLESSING !! What was a blessing ? Then it hit me, none of this is possible without the Jews having ALREADY REPENTED by the time the Abomination of Desolation happens {1290 Event}. Thus they understand that they should Flee Judea when they see the AoD, all because they have read Matt. 24:15-17, they are by this time Messianic Jews !! Of course, and this means that they Two-witnesses must have already showed up, like Malachi 4:5-6 states, God will send Elijah BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord {1260}, thus I understood, THE BLESSING was the Two-witnesses showing up 1335 days BEFORE the Second Coming ENDS ALL OF THESE WONDERS !! And there can be NO BETTER BLESSING than the Jews turning to Jesus Christ !! It is the penultimate clue in this great riddle of God. Blessed is he who comes to the 1335 {Two-witnesses show up BEFORE the DOTL which starts at the 1260 Event }.

Now I can tell people what these three numbers {Events} mean in short form. But they never get it. So I decided to explain my journey to understanding this, it fits everything perfectly, except OLE MEN'S TRADITIONS. 

P.S., I forgot to speak on the 75 days, lol. 

You see, 1335 comes 45 days before the 1290 and it starts 75 days before the 1260, thus the Two-witnesses show up {1335} 75 days before the Anti-Christ {1260} becomes THE BEAST by Conquering Jerusalem, thus I see the Two-witnesses as dying 75 days {2nd Woe} BEFORE the Beast dies at the 7th Vial {3rd Woe}. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Revelation Man

[Spock]

Wow, is everyone here on west coast time?  I go to bed and I get 5 posts 7 hours ago! That’s between midnight and 1:00 am EST. I know Marilyn is Australia time so her I understand. Iamlamad must live in LA so he I understand. 

Rev Man, Donkey, One Light, Mystic Pizza, simple Jeff, and any others I may have missed....

Anyhow, thank you all. I have some reading to do. I just want to say you guys are my Church. Like iron sharpening iron. Love you all. Thanks for the fellowship. And this appreciation is also extended to all others who have taken the time to join in....Last Daze, DuPeppers, et el. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by Spock

[Spock]

8 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

Dan. 12:11 says there will be 3.5 years (1290 days) AFTER the AoD (which I believe refers to 70AD) followed by an extra 45 days AFTER the 2nd coming. The bowl judgments are not poured out until AFTER Jesus returns. 

Matt 24:15 as I just said, refers to 70AD. The previous verses describe the events of the 40 years after the cross. 40 years is significant also. The entirety of the NT was written BEFORE 70AD and so we see references to it there, but it is absent in all other prophecy including Revelation. Surely, it would be mentioned if it were still viable. Either way, I have it occurring AFTER the cross and BEFORE the rapture. Also, it is very common to lay out a summary of events all the way to the end first, then backtrack and give more details. It is done in Daniel, also in Matt. The 15th verse starts with "therefore", and this signifies the change.

2 Thess 2:4

The word for temple should be examined. In the Bible it is almost always rendered as "house". But, since the cross, the temple has been obsolete. The house of God is within US, the believers. There is no temple except Jesus and His followers. For the A/C to "sit" in the temple, merely is stating that he is the judge or ruler over it. In this case, he is merely claiming to BE Jesus. All it is saying is "he is pretending to be the Messiah". A temple is not even necessary for him to do it, all he has to do is show up and make the declaration.

Wow, so this is different from my way of thinking. So when Paul says, “when he takes his seat in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God....” you do not see this previously foreshadowed by Antiochus Ephipanes around 171 BC?  You know the Bible often shows us stuff like that for our benefit. History repeating itself. 

I appreciate you sharing your interpretation. I can’t say I’m embracing it but I also will have to try to read the passages again with your filter and try to forget the filter I’ve had for many years as I have read those passages. I don’t think I could go places where you have gone here but I will reread again with “an open mind.”  Thanks brother for responding. 

Spock

[Spock]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

I see. Yes there are so many comments and some quite long. You do well to read them all and ponder. Thanks for that info.

So for `the tribulation.`

The time slot has been set by Jesus as just prior to His return, (to deliver Israel and judge the nations). Jesus specifically links it to the `Abomination of Desolation,` spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Daniel specifies this event to be fulfilled during the seven years of Gentile Dominion. (Dan. 9: 24 - 27)

`Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city.....Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week, (unit of seven years).` 

When the tribulation (7 years) starts, people are saying "Peace & Safety," and then `sudden destruction,` starting off small, (as pains on a pregnant woman) and then gradually intensify.   The `Abomination of Desolation` in the middle of the `week,` (seven years) marks the time of great tribulation. The labour pains of the tribulation, have greatly intensified.

Note in Matthew 24: 8 we read, `All these are the beginning of sorrows.`  ` Sorrows,` Gk. word `odin,` meaning a pang or throe esp, of childbirth.  So the Lord is saying that there will be wars, famines, pestilences and earthquakes, and these are the beginning of sorrows, (esp. childbirth)(like pains upon a pregnant woman, Paul says) 

Thus we see the beginning of the tribulation, (time of sorrows like child birth) through to the Great tribulation with the A/D. Then the Lord says `after the tribulation of those days, (not just the great tribulation, but the (whole) tribulation of those days), the powers of heaven will be shaken and He will return with His mighty angels.

Hope that helps, Marilyn.

Thanks Marilyn,

i hear what you are saying, but you have to admit, you really did not provide a SPECIFIC scriptural reference to show the entire week is called tribulation other than what Jesus called great tribulation for 3.5 years. You inferred the prior 3.5 to also be tribulation since the last 3.5 years was called GREAT tribulation. Maybe one can do that, but I think it can be argued otherwise, and I’m sure the people who advocate all the judgments of God (seals, trumpets, and bowls) are after the AOD would take issue with you as well. But your point is noted. I think we also both have common ground calling it the time of Jacobs trouble. 

Good points, mate.

spock

[DonkeySpeaksAgain]

19 minutes ago, Spock said:

Wow, so this is different from my way of thinking. So when Paul says, “when he takes his seat in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be God....” you do not see this previously foreshadowed by Antiochus Ephipanes around 171 BC?  You know the Bible often shows us stuff like that for our benefit. History repeating itself. 

I appreciate you sharing your interpretation. I can’t say I’m embracing it but I also will have to try to read the passages again with your filter and try to forget the filter I’ve had for many years as I have read those passages. I don’t think I could go places where you have gone here but I will reread again with “an open mind.”  Thanks brother for responding. 

Spock

I understand what you mean.

I too, could not accept this because I was trying to force the 7 year tribulation into Revelation. But when examining much closer, the details began to bother me a lot. God is very consistent with His use of words in prophecy. He will NEVER change the meaning further down the road (time line). Think of it this way... God knew all these things a long time ago - we cannot comprehend how, we just know it is true. Specific events are given unique words or phrases and these will always represent the SAME event on the prophecy time line. This idea allowed me to eventually drop/erase from my mind all the assumptions I was making and truly allow the Bible ALONE to formulate my outline. The outline is NOT a result of me thinking it up out of the blue or from a vision or voice in my head. 

Those unique phrases became the "linch-pins" from all the different visions of different people and groups of people in Revelation and all other Bible prophecy. These pins act like pegs that allow us to overlap and connect ALL the different visions into ONE contradiction free BIG picture. There are unique words and phrases that link to Jesus (both at the cross AND at the 2nd coming) - those are pretty easy to spot. Others are there, but we tend to look past them and ignore them. For instance, the "place of weeping and gnashing of teeth" will ALWAYS be speaking about the 3.5 tribulation after the rapture and before the 2nd coming. The word "white" in prophecy will ALWAYS refer to something holy and pure. It is attached to both the first and second comings of Jesus. 

As to the "types" or precursors, there will always be false fulfillments like the one you mentioned. However, the date is way off, and Jesus (when He was alive) also said it will be yet in the future. Another point on that, the sacrifices were re-instated (because they were still necessary) whereas in 70AD the entire temple was destroyed and the desolation began from that point on. By the way, the desolation in Daniel was said to last until the consummation (very end). It will no longer be desolate ONLY when Jesus returns as the ONLY temple of God. In connection with this, the "house of Israel" or Jewish people will represent a temple in the same way Christians do right now. Their unbelief is the desolation and can only be removed WHEN THEY ACCEPT Jesus - the 2nd coming. This desolation IN DANIEL 9:27 (the so-called A/C verse) comes AFTER the sacrifices are caused to cease at the midpoint of the 70th week AND the continual sacrifices (idolatry) that are made AFTER the midpoint. This can ONLY be referring to Jesus being killed near the midpoint and the animal sacrifices continuing in the temple. The 40 years (30AD-70AD) mirrors the 40 years in the desert under Moses, and fulfills the prophecy of "this generation"(first century Jews) having to pay (with their own blood) for the iniquities of all the past generations. 

[iamlamad]

10 hours ago, OneLight said:

 

Yeah, I've heard that from you before without ever showing scriptural evidence otherwise.  Where is scripture can we find Paul pointing to your claimed "last trump of the church age" as being what Paul was talking about?  Where in scripture does it even mention church age trumpets? 

What does Paul tell us comes next after his "gathering?" It is the Day of the Lord and God's wrath. In other words, the rapture ENDS the church age. It is therefore pure logic that the trumpet for the rapture will be the last trumpet in the Church age. 

During your lifetime, has any Jews kept the feast of trumpets? I have not been involved in a Jewish feast, but I am convinced they still do these feasts. I am also convinced they still sound trumpets at these feasts. 

Do you have a more convincing argument?

[Spock]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Remember when I posted this BELOW in another post ?

Except they show up 75 days before the DOTL/First Seal is opened. If I tell you how I came to that understanding of 75 days right now it might make you think I am cuckoo for coco puffs. No one gets it......yet. But I feel very confident I am right because it fits everything else like a glove.

Well now is the time to go there, it fits on here. This is wild stuff. I am going to explain the 1260, 1290, and 1335 !!

Lets reverse engineer it before I even go there, let's look at Dan. 9:27 first to see what it really means.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

1.) Confirm = gabar 1396 (Hebrew Word) meaning to be strong, to prevail or to act insolently.
2.) Oblation = minchah 4503 (Hebrew)  A tribute or an offering 
3.) Overspreading = kanaph 3671 (Hebrew) An edge, a Wing or Quarter (of a building) a pinnacle. 
4.) Abominations = shiqquwts 8251 (Hebrew) Meaning,  Disgusting, Filthy, Idolatrous or AN IDOL !! 
5.) Desolate = shamem 8074 (Hebrew) Meaning to Stun, Grown Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !!

So looking at these original Hebrew word Translations, what is this verse (Daniel 9:27) really telling us ? Does it match up with other end time events ? Let's delve into it !! Basically this is what I get from verse 27.

Daniel 9:27 The Anti-Christ will FORCE and Agreement (Covenant means agreement) on Israel and MANY others, the Mediterranean Sea Region Nations.  He does so Insolently, his agenda Prevails, he forces this deal. Then after 3 1/2 years he stops allowing the Oblation or Tribute, (I think to Jesus, who Israel accepts as their Messiah before the Day of the Lord as it says in Malachi 4:5-6) by Israel unto their God, the False Prophet places an IDOL in a Wing or a pinnacle of the TEMPLE and demands all people to worship this IDOL or else they must die. THIS STUNS/SHOCKS Israel, then they heed Jesus' words, they Flee unto the Wilderness where they are protected by God for 1260 Days, because Elijah turned them back to the Messiah (Zechariah 12:10) before the Day of the Lord.

Daniel 9:27 shorter version........The Anti-Christ will force/renew a Peace Deal on Israel, in the Middle of this deal he will renege on his deal, and order the False Prophet to place an Image of the Beast (IDOL) in the Temple, and demand all mankind to worship this Image. This Stuns/devastates Israel. 

Do further scriptures agree with this account ?

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

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Matthew 24:15 is of course about the End Times, verse 21 tells us it is about the Greatest Troubles ever, and Dan. 12:1-2 tell us that is END TIMES, anyone not admitting that would just rather cling to their ole Men's Traditions. It's not even a question that an be asked to tell the truth. 

The Interesting vere however is Daniel 12:11, and that is what the BLUE EMPHASIS I gave above concerns. But it has to be looked at in conjunction with Daniel 12:12 as well as Daniel 12:7, they all fit together.

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So what is the 1290, the 1335 and the Time, times and half time {1260} which Rev. 12 explains as 1260 days ? 

We must start in verse 6 & 7, where Jesus {Man of Linen} tells or explains until Daniel about the End Times, and what will be the END OF THESE WONDERS. An Angel asks what will be the end of these wonders in verse 6 then Jesus replies, this is the KEY to understanding Daniel 12:11-12.

Dan. 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half {1260 days}; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

So what does this mean ? The odd way of writing basically means this, Jesus tells Daniel or swares that from the time the Holy people/Jews are Conquered {power scattered} until all of these "WONDERS CEASE/END" there will be 1260 days. Well we know this actually fits the Daniel 9:27 prophecy in that the Anti-Christ RENEGES on his Agreements in the Middle of the 70th week, thus the middle of one year = 1260 days. So from the time the Anti-Christ or Little Horn Conquers Jerusalem/Israel, there will be 1260 days unto Jesus RETURNS to end the Wonders Daniel has seen in visions. In other words, it will be 1260 days from the time the Jews are Conquered {Beast rules 42 months} unto the Second Coming. {THAT IS THE EASY PART, LOL}

Everyone gets that, no one gets Daniel 12:11-12, they think I am off my rocker, but I am not.

NOTICE: Jesus tells Daniel to go his way, everything is locked up until the end times, but Daniel PERSISTS with this question again....And Jesus answers with more information, but everyone misses the fact that it correlates with the VERSE 6 question of WHEN WILL THESE WONDERS END.

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

So Daniel's question is just like the Angels question !! And thus Jesus' answer should be seen likewise has how many days shall THESE EVENTS be until these WONDERS CEASE/END {Second Coming}. But almost everyone sees these two numbers as referencing a time that runs into the New  Millennium, but that makes no sense at all in reality. The problem is, most people do not understand/see the obvious, that these NUMBERS are TWO EVENTS, that like the 1260 {Jews Conquered} are events that happen a "set number of days" until the Second Coming". In other words, I was shown something because I saw that the 1290 could not be referencing a New  Millennium Event !! It either had to be 30 days before the 1260 Event or 30 days afterwards. Thus I had to figure out which side it was on, because the 1290 was the Abomination of Desolation. So WHAT FIT ? 

I pondered and sought the Lord's guidance of course, and suddenly I saw the light, how can the Abomination of Desolation happen 30 days after the Holy peoples are "SCATTERED" or Conquered to the point where theY Flee Judea, when Jesus WARNS THEM TO FLEE, when they see the AoD {1290}, thus it made  no sense, nor did it fit the narrative Jesus gave us in Matt. 24:15-17, so the 1290 EVENT {AoD} had to be 30 days BEFORE the 1260 Event {Scattering of the Jews}. BOOM............I thought to myself, I have solved the riddle of these NUMBERS in Daniel chapter 12, but now I had to see if this jibed with the Scriptures of course. Sometimes I think I have solved a riddle, only to find out it doesn't fit other Scriptures and thus is a dud !! DO THIS FIT ? 

I thought, does this fit the Scriptures are am I off my rocker here !! Does the 1290 Event come before the 1260 Event, and thus if it does the 1335 would also have to come BEFORE the 1290 Event, so off I went on my journey unto truth. Well, it did make sense that Jesus would give a "Sign" that the Jewish people could see, whereas they fled Judea before they were Conquered !! I mean why not warn the Jews to Flee BEFORE the Anti-Christ Conquers the Holy Peoples to become the Beast ? So that made perfect sense. But how could the AoD be placed in the Temple BEFORE the Beast set foot in Jerusalem ? Was that even possible ? Well yes, I saw that t was, and not only was it possible, it kind of fit Rev. 13 because it is the False Prophet that places THE IMAGE of the Beast into the Temple and DEMANDS that all men worship the Beast !! So an outside force {Anti-Christ} exerting pressure on an entity he is about to Conquer, is not odd at all, many nations tried to appease Hitler back in the day to no avail, but a Jewish High Priest like unto JASON might very well sell his people out, especially id 1/3 had become born again Messianic Jews, because as we know, some of these Jews HATE their fellow Jewish brothers when they convert to Christianity !! So having a High Priest STOP the Daily {SACRIFICE WAS AN ADDED WORD] Oblation unto Jesus and placing an Image of the European President in the Temple would FIT what Revelation 13 tells us happens.

Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 

By this time I am getting excited, I am giddy with my findings, but I have yet to tackle the 1335 Event, this has TO FIT also, so what could the 1335 be ? It had to be 1335 days before the Second Coming, just like the 1290 Event {AoD}, and the 1260 Event {Jews Conquered} both are a "SET NUMBER OF DAYS" until the Second Coming of Jesus. So what could the 1335 possibly be ? Verse 12 states that it is a BLESSING !! What was a blessing ? Then it hit me, none of this is possible without the Jews having ALREADY REPENTED by the time the Abomination of Desolation happens {1290 Event}. Thus they understand they should Flee Judea when they see the AoD, all because they have read Matt. 24:15-17, they are by this time Messianic Jews !! Of course, and this means that they Two-witnesses must have already showed up, like Malachi 4:5-6 states, God will send Elijah BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord {1260}, thus I understood, THE BLESSING was the Two-witnesses showing up 1335 days BEFORE the Second Coming ENDS ALL OF THESE WONDERS !! And there can be NO BETTER BLESSING than the Jews turning to Jesus Christ !! It is the penultimate clue in this great riddle of God. Blessed is he who comes to the 1335 {Two-witnesses show up BEFORE the DOTL which starts at the 1260 Event }.

Now I can tell people what these three numbers {Events} mean in short form. But they never get it. So  decided to explain my journey to understanding this, it fits everything perfectly, except OLD MEN'S TRADITIONS. 

P.S., I forgot to speak on the 75 days, lol. 

You see, 1335 comes 45 days before the 1290 and it starts 75 days before the 1260, thus the Two-witnesses show up {1335} 75 days before the Anti-Christ {1260} becomes THE BEAST by Conquering Jerusalem, thus I see the Two-witnesses as dying 75 days {2nd Woe} BEFORE the Beast dies at the 7th Vial {3rd Woe}. 

Ok Rev Man, here we go with those numbers.....(holding breath) 

i read what you wrote twice and I have to be honest with you, I want to see this as you say, but my mind (or heart?) is just preventing  me to do so.  So, either I just haven’t been won over yet or maybe I’m missing something, or maybe I’m not meant to accept it. Not sure which one, so let’s keep the dialog going.

This makes more sense to me:

We could say that at the end of the 1,260 days Jesus returns. At the end of the 1,290 days, Jesus’ government is officially installed. At the end of the 1,335 days the nations are judged (Matthew 25:31-46).

To me where to put the 1290 event is not as clear as the 1335 event.  The way I visualize the second coming, is that Yeshua returns after 1260 from the mid point of the week.....I am not 100% sure the AOD has to be at that midpoint. I think it is, but I’m going to say I’m not 100% sure and will look at it again. I then believe there will be a lot going on from the day Yeshua returns until the Millennial Kingdom is set up. For example, I believe the sheep and goats Judgment of Matt 25:31 will take place during this period and I know that may take some time.  Thus, I see it makes sense to add the days AFTER the Lord returns in order to accomplish the many tasks at hand.  After all, the survivors of the planet will still not know what is going on and the MK clearly can’t begin until we know who made the cut and who didn’t. That will take time.....thus the 45 days.

Having said that, I am now more open to see the two witnesses and the AOD occurring 30 days before the mid point, so that can make 1290 days till the Lord returns. I’m open to,that interpretation.  So, instead of giving the two witnesses 75 days before midpoint, give them 30.....maybe. Just thinking out loud. This way they would then die 30 days before Yeshua returns, not 75 days before. 

Okay brother, let me have it......but go easy on me, don’t forget, I’m a RETIRED teacher. ?

[Spock]

17 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Come on, Spock! It fits better than any other theory!  

No, you missed it. To be worthy, it must be a man, NOT God, and NOT an angel. But it must be a MAN that has become the Redeemer 

"“Thou art worthy to take the book and to open the seals thereof; for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood"

I think we could add, a man that lived without sin and sacrificed His life. He HAD to live a sinless life to become the Redeemer, but He also had to conquer death. When Jesus WAS found, it was because He had just risen from the dead to conquer death. THAT is when He officially became the "Redeemer."  Before that, He was not qualified to take the book and open the seals. 

He ascended in Rev. 5:6.  He was found worthy in Rev. 5:5.  These two chapters show us the movement of time and ultimately the timing of the first seals.  I think Peter Goodgame nailed it! I learned this as God taught me, with no input from anyone. I later found that Peter Goodgame also agrees with me. 

LA,

That interpretation may be right....it got my attention when I first was exposed to it......but I’m just being 100% honest with my thoughts.....I have yet to accept that interpretation (Rev 5:6 is when Jesus ascended to Heaven), not before.  

And yes, the rapture in Rev 7:9-17 does follow the 6th seal so that has to be weighed heavily. But, have you read any of Rev Mans thinking here. I’m still processing it all as we speak but he makes a good point....many chapters in Revelation are not chronological but rather interludes and filling in the details. He believes just because Rev 7 follows Rev 6 doesn’t necessarily mean these two chapters have to be chronological. I’m still pondering and weighing this thinking and seeing if it can work.  Let me know what you think. 

Therefore, I am exploring other possibilities and options and weighing them all. I’m retired, so I have plenty of time. 

This discussion is just what I was hoping for.....people I care about and respect sharing their thoughts, research, and passions. This is what learning should be about.....as well as adding prayer to help assist. Lol

spock

[OneLight]

4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

What does Paul tell us comes next after his "gathering?" It is the Day of the Lord and God's wrath. In other words, the rapture ENDS the church age. It is therefore pure logic that the trumpet for the rapture will be the last trumpet in the Church age. 

During your lifetime, has any Jews kept the feast of trumpets? I have not been involved in a Jewish feast, but I am convinced they still do these feasts. I am also convinced they still sound trumpets at these feasts. 

Do you have a more convincing argument?

I was not looking for an argument, but scriptural evidence.  Ever since Jesus left this world, people have been looking into the probabilities of this or that being true when scripture is silent.  For me, scripture clearly states when the rapture will occur and I will not add to it unless scriptural evidence can be provided.  In other words, in order to be the last trumpet of the church age, there must of been earlier trumpets blown, yet there is no evidence of this being true.   I have had others tell me that the last trumpet Paul speaks of is the last trumpet in the feast of trumpets, that the trumpet spoken of is a commandment of God, etc., yet they all are just assumptions based of their personal train of thought.  For me, I will stand by the last trumpet and not assign what that trumpet is as scripture is silent on the matter.  Have you ever heard that it is wise to be silent on scripture when scripture itself is silent?

Time being as short as it is, does it really matter when, or does it really matter if people are ready or not no matter when?

[iamlamad]

31 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I was not looking for an argument, but scriptural evidence.  Ever since Jesus left this world, people have been looking into the probabilities of this or that being true when scripture is silent.  For me, scripture clearly states when the rapture will occur and I will not add to it unless scriptural evidence can be provided.  In other words, in order to be the last trumpet of the church age, there must of been earlier trumpets blown, yet there is no evidence of this being true.   I have had others tell me that the last trumpet Paul speaks of is the last trumpet in the feast of trumpets, that the trumpet spoken of is a commandment of God, etc., yet they all are just assumptions based of their personal train of thought.  For me, I will stand by the last trumpet and not assign what that trumpet is as scripture is silent on the matter.  Have you ever heard that it is wise to be silent on scripture when scripture itself is silent?

Time being as short as it is, does it really matter when, or does it really matter if people are ready or not no matter when?

This is certain: when Paul penned "the last trump," he had a certain SERIES of trumpet sounds in mind.  Since Paul did not TELL us which series, it is up to us to investigate. Another thing we can be certain of, it is NOT the 7th trumpet of Revelation. The 7 trumpets of Revelation were a mystery hidden in God when Paul penned his letters. Anyway, John SAW the raptured church in heaven, written in chapter 7.  That places Paul's rapture (and the last trump) before Rev. 7.  I have said for a long time now that Paul's rapture comes just a moment before the 6th seal. Then John saw the church in heaven shortly thereafter.

I get your point: it really does not matter if we stay ready. But then, will it matter to God if we expect something else first, so we are not eagerly expecting Him?