Matthew 10:28 and hell

[Still Alive]

16 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

I don't support univeralism either .      Yall we got to do what the early church did , they knew the lake of fire was real ,

That is because their "bible" was the Septuagint, and they were also familiar with 1 Enoch, which references the lake of fire as well. 

It is a place for fallen spiritual beings. 

Jesus said the lost human souls go to Gehenna. It's an analogy. But he further specifies that the "gehenna" they are going to will not be full of partially consumed corpses. Rather, they will be utterly destroyed. Gone. They will not receive eternal life because, well, they are dead, just as the warning to Adam promised regarding disobeying God. 

And the solution is so simple. Simply believe on Him and you will be saved from death.

Edited March 7, 2019 by Still Alive

[JustPassingThru]

12 hours ago, DarrenJClark said:

Can we get back to discussing my exegesis?

There's nothing more to discuss, it's all conjecture on your part, you say I present straw man arguments, ...I don't even know what that is, ...all I have done is show you what you have so conveniently left out of your theory, ...I showed you Biblical proof that the spirit and soul of man are joined together Heb 4:12, ...now the burden is on you to come up with Scriptural proof that man's spirit is destroyed along with his soul and body. ...and may I point out, you are not arguing against me, you are arguing against the Word of God, ...I didn't write the book.  

As to whether it is important or not is foolishness, it's about the future and you don't know any more about the precise details of the Lake of Fire than anyone else, ...because it is future, ...and personally, ...I'm not going there.

Lord bless

[DarrenJClark]

49 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

There's nothing more to discuss, it's all conjecture on your part, you say I present straw man arguments, ...I don't even know what that is, ...all I have done is show you what you have so conveniently left out of your theory, ...I showed you Biblical proof that the spirit and soul of man are joined together Heb 4:12, ...now the burden is on you to come up with Scriptural proof that man's spirit is destroyed along with his soul and body. ...and may I point out, you are not arguing against me, you are arguing against the Word of God, ...I didn't write the book.  

As to whether it is important or not is foolishness, it's about the future and you don't know any more about the precise details of the Lake of Fire than anyone else, ...because it is future, ...and personally, ...I'm not going there.

Lord bless

Ok.  A strawman argument is one where you focus on a weaker or non-existing point in your opponent's case and pretend you have addressed the stronger or fuller argument.  I never denied pain is involved so your argument that pain is involved is addressing no part of my exegesis.  

 

By any standard my exegesis of Matthew 10:28 is in no way conjectural and I am guessing you go not know what a merism is or you would have seen I have answered your objection.  

 

Just for the sake of the argument let's go with your reading of Matthew 10:28 and say that the body and soul are destroyed but the spirit is not.  That means you have a view of the final fate of the wicked where two thirds of the human is destroyed and one third is not.  That is in no way representative of the historical view of hell.  It is much more an outlier view of hell than my view of conditionalism is.

 

Hebrews 4:12  "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

 

And, your reading of Hebrews 4:12 is very much an outlier interpretation of that verse.  If you are going to push that verse to say that there is a separate soul and spirit you are going to have to say the same for the bone and marrow.  So, in your reading of the Bible we have a body, a soul, a spirit, a bone, and a marrow.  Maybe you should do some study in biblical figures of speech.    

[JustPassingThru]

3 hours ago, DarrenJClark said:

And, your reading of Hebrews 4:12 is very much an outlier interpretation of that verse.  If you are going to push that verse to say that there is a separate soul and spirit you are going to have to say the same for the bone and marrow.  So, in your reading of the Bible we have a body, a soul, a spirit, a bone, and a marrow.  Maybe you should do some study in biblical figures of speech.    

 

Do I understand you correctly? You say our spirit and soul are the same?

And bone and marrow are the same thing in the human body.

Let's keep it simple, as per your definition of a straw man argument, please just answer the two questions with a yes or no. 

[DarrenJClark]

9 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

 

Do I understand you correctly? You say our spirit and soul are the same?

And bone and marrow are the same thing in the human body.

Let's keep it simple, as per your definition of a straw man argument, please just answer the two questions with a yes or no. 

"Do I understand you correctly?"

 

No, you do not understand me.  I am saying that "body and soul" in Matthew 10:28 is a merism.  That does not exclude that humans have a spirit alongside a soul.  It does not exclude any view of anthropology.   Another example of merism is found in the very first verse of the Bible with "God created the heavens and the earth", is a way of referring the whole f creation without excluding the idea that their is also an atmosphere, or the oceans, ect.  in Matthew "body and soul" is a way of referring to the whole without necessarily excluding other parts of humans.  

 

"You say our spirit and soul are the same?"

I am making no claims whatsoever about whether the spirit or soul are the same.  If you can get your head around merism then you will understand this.

 

"And bone and marrow are the same thing in the human body."

 

Yeah right, and you get to arbitrarily decide that in Hebrews 4:12  "soul and of spirit" should indicate two separate elements of a human but "bone and marrow" do not.  I am not arguing one way or another but you had better do a better job of interpreting Scripture more consistently if you want to convince me.  

 

 "Let's keep it simple, as per your definition of a straw man argument, please just answer the two questions with a yes or no. "

 

If you want to avoid the strawman argument then please engage with what I have actually argued.  I appreciate and thank you for the attempt to do that here (no sarcasm intended).  May you find peace in God.

[JustPassingThru]

1 hour ago, DarrenJClark said:

If you want to avoid the strawman argument

LOL LOL LOL 

I tried, ...I asked for a simple yes of no, but your straw man diatribe, proves exactly what you said a straw man argument is, .........to avoid answering my question!

I'm done here....  

[DarrenJClark]

13 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

LOL LOL LOL 

I tried, ...I asked for a simple yes of no, but your straw man diatribe, proves exactly what you said a straw man argument is, .........to avoid answering my question!

I'm done here....  

I answered your questions.  You just do not like the answer.

 

[simplejeff]

On 3/7/2019 at 10:36 AM, DarrenJClark said:

If you are going to push that verse to say that there is a separate soul and spirit you are going to have to say the same for the bone and marrow.  So, in your reading of the Bible we have a body, a soul, a spirit, a bone, and a marrow. 

Did you notice or know already? 

In the Bible we DO have a body, soul, spirit, bone and marrow. 

People of the world, everywhere, usually cannot see or tell the difference. 

God's Word always shows the difference,  when and as He Pleases.

[DarrenJClark]

Just now, simplejeff said:

Did you notice or know already? 

In the Bible we DO have a body, soul, spirit, bone and marrow. 

People of the world, everywhere, usually cannot see or tell the difference. 

God's Word always shows the difference,  when and as He Pleases.

Yup, I noticed what the verse says.  However, those arguing for a tripartite view of anthropology consisting of the body, soul, and spirit need to interpret "piercing to the division of soul and of spirit" and "of joints and of marrow" (Hebrews 4:12) in two different ways or they would not have a tripartite view.   If they were consistent they would have a four or five part view of human anthropology.

 

I currently do not have a firm view of biblical anthropology and the attempts by JustPassingThru to make me have a view is misunderstanding my argument.  My argument from Matthew 10:28 is that "body and soul" is a merism.  That does not exclude any view of biblical anthropology so the attempt to force me to a particular view is an exercise in missing the point I have argued.  I could be a physicalist, a dualist, or hold to the tripartite view and still say "body and soul" in Matt 10:28 is a merism.  Rather than trying to force me to a view of anthropology JustPassingThru should be asking me how I know "body and soul" in Matt 10:28 is a merism.  That would directly relate to a claim I am making and rightly demand that I justify it exegetically.  

[Blood Bought 1953]

On 3/5/2019 at 10:48 PM, Unveiling Bible Truth said:

So your version of the good news is that the majority of mankind(100 billion people, from the beginning of man) will be tormented for all eternity. Tell me, how is that good news, that is not what Jesus taught. Jesus said that all sins would be forgiven of men, even the sin against the holy spirit, just not in this age or the next(Matt 12:31-32)

Since all sin is forgiven, how is your eternal punishment feasible?

 

All sins are forgiven......those that “ cash in” by their faith in Jesus Christ can claim this gift......failure to cash in with faith in Christ will deny one of that free gift......