Is God Interested in Me?

[thomas t]

... yes sure, I would say.

But there seems to be a brother who doesn't have the same feeling of a loving God being near and hugging you.

Here we read:

 

Quote

 

[...] asking for an introduction, to start a relationship [with God].

Think of it like this: imagine there is a girl who is single. Some of her friends tell her that there is a guy who is really interested in dating her. This guy has supposedly met with and talked to other people about her. He even sent a friend of his to buy a really expensive wedding ring because he's that serious!

Well, the girl is very excited at first. But days go by, and he never shows up for a date. Then months. Then years! He knows where she lives; he has her phone number; he is rich and has lots of spare time; he's in town, not away traveling. It would literally be the easiest thing in the world for him to introduce himself to her.... so why doesn't he? 

Eventually, what should the girl conclude? Either this guy doesn't really exist - maybe he's a made up story from her girlfriends - or maybe he does exist but just isn't that interested in her after all.

 

... but there might be a relationship problem. To stay in the picture: maybe this guy already interacted with her.

Maybe she asked him some day: "what did you do yesterday" - he replied "I went for a walk" and maybe she then replied "oh, I'm taking you metaphorically: 'to go' means certainly 'to stay' and 'for a walk' certainly means 'at home' - ah you stayed at home?"

In this case, communicating with her is a sheer horror - but still: the girl is a lovely girl he'd love to know more.

 

These days many people tend to take Bible verses allegorically... even in instances where no such thing as an allegory is indicated in the Bible.

This could be the case in individual relationships with God: people over-allegorize everything in the Bible and God doesn't want to be misunderstood, that's why he ceases to talk to everybody individually?

It could be this problem in this case... but there might be other reasons, too.

Regards,

Thomas

 

 

 

[Who me]

Basic problem.

                              No where in the bible does God promise to be a warm comfortable blanket, making life warm and safe for Christians.

 

Actually the bible promoises the opposite.

[thomas t]

Hi Who me,

thank you very much for responding.

Actually, when it comes to next life, God does promise everything from comfortable to warm and safe.* ?

But the fellow poster didn't even seem to make the warm life on earth a topic, he just seemed to have wondered why God simply doesn't present himself to him individually.

So, I asked myself as to why and then I came up with this posting.

Have a nice discussion,

Thomas

----

Edit: * in case you stick to his word - my interpretation of Revelations 22:17

Edited March 9, 2019 by thomas t
see below edit line

[Who me]

In thenext life we are promised to be with Jesus/God. There is no mention of it being safe. As we'll have our own place I'll accept comfortable.

As to why hasn't God revealed himself personally to an enquirer?

Why should God do something extra special when the standard evidence of God isn't thought sufficient.

Remember the default possition is belief in God, so your enquirer need some significant arguments/evidence that demonstrates that the default is not relevant in his case.

[Joulre2abba]

8 hours ago, thomas t said:

 

8 hours ago, thomas t said:

These days many people tend to take Bible verses allegorically... even in instances where no such thing as an allegory is indicated in the Bible.

This could be the case in individual relationships with God: people over-allegorize everything in the Bible and God doesn't want to be misunderstood, that's why he ceases to talk to everybody individually?

It would seem that is what you're doing. .. using allegory when it's not indicated.

God individually talking to us is done through His word and our prayers.

How terrible it would be to have a relationship of love with someone who doesn't communicate.

[Willa]

 Jas 4:6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
“God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”[fn]

 Jas 4:7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

 Jas 4:8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

 Jas 4:9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.

 Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.

 

There are all kinds of promises that God will be found by those who seek Him.  If this is not happening I can only guess why this person does not yet have a relationship with God.  Normally the Holy Spirit first comes and shows us our need for a Savior by showing us the ugliness of our sins.   When we realize we are without hope we humble ourselves and ask for God's help.  Then we ask Him to be Lord and Master, the Ruler of our lives.  A person cannot continue serving sin and satan and serve God too.  We must choose one or the other.  We will not be born again and have a relationship with God until we choose to serve Him and start seeking the answers to our problems in His Holy word, the Bible.  

When people reject what they do clearly understand in the Bible, God often does not reveal more to them.  I have a friend who has rejected all that Paul wrote in the Bible, having believed lies about his attitude toward women.  Then she didn't believe  Jesus's statement "I am the way, the truth and the life.  No man comes to the Father but by Me."   In addition she cannot utter the words "Jesus is Lord".   So the bottom line is that she has rejected the truth and chosen to believe lies.  Then she complains that she can't understand the Bible and that it is all poetry and allegory.   

[TomatoHorse]

Hey Thomas,

Thanks for wanting to discuss. It may surprise you to know that I have had experiences like what you describe as God's nearness, warmth, and "hug". 

The important thing to realize is that our own internal impressions and experiences can have multiple possible meanings. We have to critically examine what is going on, and have an open mind as to what is truly causing it. Here are a few thoughts I have about that:

1) You can be a Christian without having any of these warm feelings

2) People of other religions have spiritual experiences they describe as feelings of love, peace, joy, warmth.

3) People taking certain neurological stimulants can have these same kind of experiences.

4) Even atheists can have such experiences, through entirely secular versions of meditation.

 

So how do we explain the fact that 4 different groups report similar experiences, yet their claims about God are mutually exclusive?

 

These "spiritual experiences" - even though they can be very strong, and it is very easy to attribute them to God - are almost certainly due to other factors that are not God. Because all 4 groups have contradictory beliefs about God / their experience.

 

A similar phenomenon happens with conversion experiences. I used to hear Christian testimonies that talk about peace washing over them when they prayed the sinner's prayer, and feelings of being filled up with joy - and I thought that was evidence that God was "really real." But have you ever listened to testimonies of conversion to other religions? I never had until recently. Muslims and Hindus describe similar experiences. Go watch some on YouTube.

 

Finally, I'm not sure why you think interpreting the Bible allegorically has anything to do with God's nearness or existence.

-> Many good Christians, even church fathers, have interpreted the Bible allegorically

-> Jesus told parables, which are essentially allegorical

-> You can be an atheist and interpret the Bible non-allegorically

So it seems to not really be relevant.

Edited March 9, 2019 by TomatoHorse

[thomas t]

21 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

It would seem that is what you're doing. .. using allegory when it's not indicated.

Hi Joul

no no, please, I don't do this, I think.

Are you referring to this:

21 hours ago, Joulre2abba said:

God individually talking to us is done through His word and our prayers.

?

I mean things like this one (Acts 22:6-8):

And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.

7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.

 

I mean this sort of encounters, when God is talking individually to someone.

Regards,

Thomas

-------------

Hi Tomato

18 hours ago, TomatoHorse said:

It may surprise you to know that I have had experiences like what you describe as God's nearness, warmth, and "hug". 

interesting! But I agree, other people have this, too.

18 hours ago, TomatoHorse said:

3) People taking certain neurological stimulants can have these same kind of experiences.

oh, drugs... horrible

18 hours ago, TomatoHorse said:

So how do we explain the fact that 4 different groups report similar experiences, yet their claims about God are mutually exclusive?

no idea, but (...if I may distract from that question...) that wasn't my point, either, I was saying that interpreting Bible verses allegorically when they are not intended to be allegorical can harm your relationship with God.

Take for instance the Theory of Evolution, some people take it as describing the truth, although God said he "worked" (Gen. 2:2). In contrast, the Theory of Evolution excludes divine interventions*.

So, if you take the first two chapters af Genesis as describing sort of evolution... then you must take "to work" as used in Gen 2:2 as an allegory for "not to work" and this can harm your relationship.

So now back to your point that taking things allegorically wouldn't have an impact on how you live with God?

If he would show up in front of you, you could take this vision as an allegory for not showing up and being absent? Taking things allegorically just the way you did with his word, I mean Genesis describing creation, an act of work by God?

So that's why God doesn't show up? Maybe...

 

Regards,

Thomas

 

 

 

 

* some minor exceptions are allowed according to that theory, if I know well; like having created the first living being or acting through what they call "chance".

Edited March 10, 2019 by thomas t
clarity and grammar

[TomatoHorse]

On allegory, I have studied hermeneutics, and so I try not to take things allegorically when they are not intended. I think that all Christians should study hermeneutics - it's very important!

Also, think about this: if God loves someone, but that person is misunderstanding part of his Word ... wouldn't he more likely try to correct their misunderstanding by speaking or appearing to them in other ways, rather than give up on them and stay far away?

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by TomatoHorse

[thomas t]

22 hours ago, Who me said:

As to why hasn't God revealed himself personally to an enquirer?

Why should God do something extra special when the standard evidence of God isn't thought sufficient.

Hi Who me,

that's an interesting point. I remain silent on what God should or should not do.

But I take it as a fact that God is doing the very extra special thing all the time according to numerous accounts. Right now in the Middle East according to the witnesses in the linked book.

22 hours ago, Who me said:

There is no mention of it being safe.

 

In my reading of the Bible there will be safety, read the verses that say that any people presenting a threat to someone will not be admitted to the new Jerusalem. This is at least my interpretation of Revelations 21:27.

I am intrigued to learn what you will write next.

Thomas

Edited March 10, 2019 by thomas t
spelling, clarity