Who / What is God?

[JohnD]

Theology is an ology about Theos (God).

Yet every topic under the sun BUT God is in this "Theology" section.

How about we dive into some deep biblical studies (opinions don't count)

about the one and only...

G O D !

[JohnD]

Genesis 1:1 (AV)
1 In the beginning God

Think about that a moment.

God was all there was at one time (or actually before time began [1 Corinthians 2:7 / 2 Timothy 1:9 / Titus 1:2] ).

Jesus (God the Word [John 1:1-3 / John 1:14] )  existed equally with God [the Father and the Spirit] (John 5:18 / Philippians 2:6) from all eternity (Micah 5:2)

So, this was not a God who got lonely and created a spirit realm then a physical realm to populate both with beings to keep him (them) company.

Ever wonder WHY?

Why did God the Word create all things created (John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16 / Hebrews 1:21 / Isaiah 44:24)  to exist

when all the fullness of God (Colossians 2:9) was all that existed already?

This is by no means a charge against him.

Just a curiosity as to why he did it.

I am grateful and all. Just curious.

Edited March 28, 2019 by JohnD

[Jostler]

oooh this is gonna be a good thread   I got a strong witness ....bless you  JohnD...I hear HIM in your post, not just you.  I got some things i want to share but I will give  Him the respect of taking time to go through the references you posted before I do

In the meantime I'll be following how  He unfolds this...watching eagerly.  To know  Him....what a heart cry.  And one He honors.  I do want to know Him  better and I bet He'll have some  fresh  insight into Him through  what He does here. 

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

 

It gives God pleasure to give “ us” pleasure.

[missmuffet]

Which one? God the Father, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit? They are all God. I will pick God the Father.

1. God the Father is the first Person in the Holy Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

2. God is the self-existent One. Never having need to be created.

3. God is all knowing, all powerful, and able to be in all places at the same time.

4. God is Holy without any moral or character defects.

5. God is the creator and ruler of all.

6.God is unchanging.

7. God is love.

Edited March 28, 2019 by missmuffet

[other one]

Ex 24:9-11 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy
of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was
under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it
were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the
children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat
and drink.
KJV
John 6:44-46 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent
me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in
the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore
that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not
that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath
seen the Father.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~
Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed.
Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from
Him.
So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of is not what that
the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the Old Testament.
Looking further:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 1:1-10 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All
things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that
was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the
light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There
was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a
witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might
believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that
Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh
into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and
the world knew him not.
KJV
John 8:52-58 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a
devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man
keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than
our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom
makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is
nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is
your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should
say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him,
and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he
saw it, and was glad.
Trinity Thoughts
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and
hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel
interfaced with in the Old Testament days. Jesus in this form was with
the Father from the beginning.
It seems to me that the people of the Old Testament days were not aware
of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he
existed in before he became flesh.
Further:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Phil 2:5-11Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with
God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in
fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death,
even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted
him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name
of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in
earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father
worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the Old Testament
times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the
Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the
Father on earth.
Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that
did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only
thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only
as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the
fleshly body.
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the
Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself:
but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that
I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the
very works' sake.
KJV
John 17:20-26 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which
shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as
thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in
us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory
which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as
we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in
one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved
them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou
hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory,
which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of
the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I
have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I
have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love
wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for
the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the
Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the
Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the
firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man
came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so
in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to
God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all
authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies
under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he
hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are
put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all
things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then
shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things
under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and
authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus
will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to
Him........ The Father.
I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He
was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father
after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over
all and giving it to the Father.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 Cor 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are
offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the
world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be
that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods
many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of
whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom
are all things, and we by him.
KJV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But to us, there is but one God, The Father of whom all things
came from......
And one Lord, Jesus whom we call the Christ, through which all things
came including us.
And we have the Holy Spirit which was sent to us from the Father at the
request of Jesus.
Interestingly, all three are one in thought, one in purpose, and one in
action. We can't interface with the Father without being indwelt by
the Holy Spirit, and we can't have the Holy Spirit without the
sacrifice and request of Jesus, and we couldn't have had Jesus without
the Father asking Him to do what he has done for us.
You have to have all three or none. And thus they are one.
 

[other one]

8 hours ago, JohnD said:

Genesis 1:1 (AV)
1 In the beginning God

Think about that a moment.

God was all there was at one time (or actually before time began [1 Corinthians 2:7 / 2 Timothy 1:9 / Titus 1:2] ).

Jesus (God the Word [John 1:1-3 / John 1:14] )  existed equally with God [the Father and the Spirit] (John 5:18 / Philippians 2:6) from all eternity (Micah 5:2)

So, this was not a God who got lonely and created a spirit realm then a physical realm to populate both with beings to keep him (them) company.

Ever wonder WHY?

Why did God the Word create all things created (John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16 / Hebrews 1:21 / Isaiah 44:24)  to exist

when all the fullness of God (Colossians 2:9) was all that existed already?

This is by no means a charge against him.

Just a curiosity as to why he did it.

I am grateful and all. Just curious.

 According to the new testament we are going to judge Angels....    it's odd that God created us incapable of doing that....    and Satan himself worked out for us to be able to do so...    I don't know if that was part of the plans in the beginning but it is very difficult for me to believe it was just an after thought even though I can't find anything in scripture that says so or not.

[Tzephanyahu]

8 hours ago, JohnD said:

Ever wonder WHY?

Shalom brother,

If I have understood your question correctly, you want to know why Elohim created the world and all therein?  I don't know, of course, but I have a theory...

If Yahweh Elohim is love, then He has an abundance of love to give.  So much love to give, He would need to create subjects for Him to lavish His love upon them! 

Think of it like this - when you are in love or deeply passionately happy, your whole attitude changes.  You want to share your joy and love with everyone, even strangers you'll treat so warmly at such times (plenty do this around something minor like New Year's).  So, imagine that love and joy increased to an exponential measure and eternally!  Yahweh Elohim may have been bursting to lavish His great love and goodness on many others (more than existed) and so - we were created...  Again, just a theory.  We were to increase massively in number, across the ages of time, to build many subjects to be filled with His overflowing Love and to give Him our love in return.  This motive makes sense to me anyway, based on the following...

We are likened to a bride in the Scripture, both Israel and the Church.  The Word of God says that the husband should love His wife as himself and become one with them.  He should seek things for her good and cherish her.  This shows what the Father has in mind for us. 

When sin came in the world, the demonstration of His love only increased towards us with a promise of restoration.  When the Torah came in, which highlighted our many flaws, His love towards was shown to be greater still - as He gave us a way to draw closer to Him.  Then, when the Messiah came, the ultimate demonstration of love was made - showing us that He would effectively die for us to save us from our doom, taking our deserved punishment on Himself and to have us with Him forever.  Truly, the depths of His love are scarier than His wrath!

The Scripture that comes to mind to explain this principle is this: "Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" ~ Romans 5:20-21.  So, the greater the offense increases, the more that Yahweh can demonstrate the power of His mercy and love.

Imagine an alternate reality, one where man did not sin across the ages of time.  Would that race of mankind be able to appreciate the depths of The Father's love, mercy and grace like we do?  Or if they did sin, but did not have the Torah - would they appreciate the Wisdom of the Father and realise their lack of holiness?  Or suppose they never had the Messiah - could they ever understand the heroism of the Father and the sacrifice He would be willing to make for us? 

Therefore, my theory is that we were created by Him to be subjects of His abundance of love, to overfilling, and to share in His bountiful riches, enjoying a huge family of others with us who love and care for each other in truth. Wow....

HalleluYah!

Love & Shalom

[Jostler]

On 3/28/2019 at 4:35 AM, Tzephanyahu said:

Shalom brother,

If I have understood your question correctly, you want to know why Elohim created the world and all therein?  I don't know, of course, but I have a theory...

If Yahweh Elohim is love, then He has an abundance of love to give.  So much love to give, He would need to create subjects for Him to lavish His love upon them! 

Think of it like this - when you are in love or deeply passionately happy, your whole attitude changes.  You want to share your joy and love with everyone, even strangers you'll treat so warmly at such times (plenty do this around something minor like New Year's).  So, imagine that love and joy increased to an exponential measure and eternally!  Yahweh Elohim may have been bursting to lavish His great love and goodness on many others (more than existed) and so - we were created...  Again, just a theory.  We were to increase massively in number, across the ages of time, to build many subjects to be filled with His overflowing Love and to give Him our love in return.  This motive makes sense to me anyway, based on the following...

We are likened to a bride in the Scripture, both Israel and the Church.  The Word of God says that the husband should love His wife as himself and become one with them.  He should seek things for her good and cherish her.  This shows what the Father has in mind for us. 

When sin came in the world, the demonstration of His love only increased towards us with a promise of restoration.  When the Torah came in, which highlighted our many flaws, His love towards was shown to be greater still - as He gave us a way to draw closer to Him.  Then, when the Messiah came, the ultimate demonstration of love was made - showing us that He would effectively die for us to save us from our doom, taking our deserved punishment on Himself and to have us with Him forever.  Truly, the depths of His love are scarier than His wrath!

The Scripture that comes to mind to explain this principle is this: "Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" ~ Romans 5:20-21.  So, the greater the offense increases, the more that Yahweh can demonstrate the power of His mercy and love.

Imagine an alternate reality, one where man did not sin across the ages of time.  Would that race of mankind be able to appreciate the depths of The Father's love, mercy and grace like we do?  Or if they did sin, but did not have the Torah - would they appreciate the Wisdom of the Father and realise their lack of holiness?  Or suppose they never had the Messiah - could they ever understand the heroism of the Father and the sacrifice He would be willing to make for us? 

Therefore, my theory is that we were created by Him to be subjects of His abundance of love, to overfilling, and to share in His bountiful riches, enjoying a huge family of others with us who love and care for each other in truth. Wow....

HalleluYah!

Love & Shalom

So much in all that I believe I've been taught as well.  God IS a number of things and LOVE is primary.  He is also truth and life.  I think we can see a principle  in nature that He left there, the lesson of which  is actually magnified by the  fall...not diminished.  But one "principle" of life we can see modeled in nature is the fact that life grows.  Since the  fall, if GROWTH stops, life begins to wane and death sets in.  Take a tree for example.  Once a tree ceases to grow, it becomes senescent and from that  point, it becomes subject to decay.  For a tree it may take many years yet but it will become more vulnerable to disease, invasion by  insects....any  number of assaults on the  life in it.   And it begins to die.

The  idea of God....and the life principle He  is made of needing/desiring  to grow and expand (and some very literally similar characteristics of love) give some good insight into why  He  desired to create.   Why He desired to HAVE a creation He could shower His love upon and give His  own life to.  So I think He just expanded Himself...

Before time began He was a family.  Father, Son and Spirit self-existent, whole and perfect, existing in a delightful dance of loving one another, preferring one another above themselves, serving one another.  And I think there must have been a time when Father, Son and Spirit peered down through the time they would create and beheld a Bride.  An helpmeet suitable for the Son.  I think she  must be beautiful indeed and someone Jesus longed to become One with.  Another "person" He could love and invest all of Himself into.  I believe He must have gazed down through  time and said something like "Oh Father, she  is beautiful!!  I will die to have her....."

and the plan was set in motion. 

The fact that it was known that Adam would fall, before he was ever created, was no barrier.  The fact that Jesus  would have to appear here, suffer as a man to remedy/reverse the effects of Adam's fall, none of that stopped Him.  He counted the cost  and found  the  prize - HAVING US - worth the price.

Free will is why sin had to be allowed.  If we stop and consider God's power it's clear that He HAS the power to wrench every  man, woman and child to their knees, right  now, and force us  to worship Him.   But what would that be worth to a God who is love?   It would be so hollow, so artificial, so powerless a worship  it would have no  value to Him at all.   For worship to have any  value to love it MUST BE FREELY OFFERED.   And if we have the  power to offer it freely, then we MUST have the power  to choose to deny it...withhold it...

He GAVE man free will, and  WILL NOT violate it. 

You also have to stop and consider that Jesus is STILL a man, and STILL possesses a body, though the body He now possesses is far greater than the one He  walked in here...it's still a body.  So we can also assume that God knew all that back before He even began to create.  At some level a decision was made that the King of the Universe was going to be  A MAN.  And that He would rule and reign from Jerusalem for all Eternity. 

He created Adam in a form, after His own image and likeness, knowing  full well it was THAT FORM which  He  intended to take upon Himself, and from that rule and reign forever...as a man.

I think it was His longing to have more to shower His love on and share His life with that inspired His whole plan for creation.  He "imagined" each of us, as souls He not ONLY longed to enjoy for all eternity, but to even invite to join Him in the intimacy of relationship defined by "family" not just "friend" or "acquaintance".

And then His love appointed a specific time which we were to be born into, and a specific and uniquely individual set of life experiences, parents we're born to, circumstances that would both develop the  soul/personality  into exactly what He longs to partner with and enjoy for all eternity while also giving  each  of us the MAXIMUM chance of responding to and returning that great love OF OUR OWN FREE WILL....and accepting that  invitation to be lifted up into His own family through the sacrifice of His Son.

If we can ever get ahold of some of that, we will never have to question our own value as human beings, or seek "significance" in what we do or how we perform or what anyone else thinks of us.  Our value is found solely in the fact that He was willing to risk everything, and give even the  life of His own Son to have us...

Our value to Him is found in the price He was willing to pay for us to be lifted up into that place of "sonship" ...and realizing He and Jesus agreed that the price necessary to pay for that was not too great to pay.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Jostler

[Heybro]

I stand amazed in the presence of Jesus The Nazarene, and wonder how He could love me, a sinner, condemned, unclean. How marvellous, how wonderful, and my song shall ever be. How marvellous, how wonderful is my Saviour's love for me.

He took my sins and my sorrows, He made them His very own, and took my burden to Calvary, and suffered and died alone. How marvellous...