douge Posted April 29, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 354 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 964 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 181 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2019 Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. There are many who say that the church, the body of Christ, is now spiritual Israel. A member of the body of Christ has become a Jew inwardly. Neither this verse, nor any others, confirm this. Israel thought their righteousness would come by the law: they stumbled at the stumblingstone, which is Christ (Romans 9:32). Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. The Lord set Israel apart from all the Gentile nations. To say that the body of Christ is spiritual Israel would dilute this distinction and ignore the existing separation between Jew and Gentile; Christ by the body of Christ has removed the separation and made of Jew and Gentile believers one new man, there is no longer any Jew in the body (Ephesians 2:15). If in the body there is no more Jew, how could it be said there is now one. Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Paul is saying that his Israelite kinsman are so according to the flesh. To say that the body of Christ is now spiritual Israel is in error; to say all the promises given to Israel are now given to the body of Christ is not spiritual but fleshly. Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. The children of the promise is not according to the flesh, but the promise. It is believing Israel who are the children of the promise. Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. They which are of faith are counted as children of Abraham not by the law, but by faith. The Gentile heathen nations are to be blessed in Abraham. They which be of faith are blessed with Abraham. This however, does not say the believing Gentiles are to be given the promises of Israel, but rather, are blessed. Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. The body of Christ has not been made a holy nation, priests, nor kings. As can be seen in Exodus 19:6 it is only the children of Israel that will be so. Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. To say Israel has been stripped of all the promises and it's prophetic future as a result of their unbelief, and has been replaced by the body of Christ, the church, is to make the faith of God without effect; let God be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted April 30, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2019 The church is spiritual Israel. There is only one church, not two. When someone is saved, they become a Jew by adoption. When a natural Jew rejects Jesus, they are cut off. That is taught in Romans, and God uses a tree and it's branches to illustrate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted April 30, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,204 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted April 30, 2019 11 hours ago, douge said: Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. The body of Christ has not been made a holy nation, priests, nor kings. As can be seen in Exodus 19:6 it is only the children of Israel that will be so. Hi douge, I do agree that the Body of Christ is not Israel. Great. Now there is a part of your OP that I disagree with. The scripture in Rev. 5: 10 is - `And have made us kings and priests to our God, and we shall reign OVER the earth.` (Rev. 5: 10) The Greek word is `epi` and means OVER here which is in agreement with other scriptures relating to the Body of Christ. `To Him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne,...` (Rev. 3: 21) It is the Body of Christ who are kingpriests under the Lord who is the King & High priest. Together we will rule from the highest realm in all of God`s great kingdom. Israel is only promised a king and some priests. (Ez. 37: 24 & Jer. 30: 9 & Ez. 19: 6) Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted April 30, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,937 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Marilyn C said: It is the Body of Christ who are kingpriests under the Lord who is the King & High priest. Yes it will be in the new Jerusalem on the new earth and under the new heaven. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted April 30, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Not to torque the topic out so quickly, but concerning heritage Paul also says this: Galatians 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither bond nor free, neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. KJV And I'll leave it with that, not taking sides on the so-called 'spiritual Israel'. God bless! Shalom, David/BeauJangles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joulre2abba Posted April 30, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 463 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/08/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2019 The apostle Paul states that we are of the wild branch that is engrafted into the original olive tree. (Rm.11:17-24) We are partakers of the saints in light. (Col.1:12) The saints in that context referring to the Jews whom God has called to be the light of the world, God having chosen them to be in covenant with Him.. Abraham being the first, he is the father of faith to us all. The apostle Paul was first a Jew outwardly, then He became a Jew inwardly.. a Messianic Jew.. an apostle of God's light unto the Gentiles (Rm.11:13). The Messianic Jews, and the Gentile Christians are not Israel. They are the Church. The Church does not become Israel. We are engrafted into the Olive Tree, we do not become the Tree. The Church does not replace Israel. There are three.. The Jews- Israel. The Church- the Body of Christ. The Gentiles- the nations. (1 Cor.10:32) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted April 30, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2019 47 minutes ago, Joulre2abba said: The apostle Paul states that we are of the wild branch that is engrafted into the original olive tree. (Rm.11:17-24) We are partakers of the saints in light. (Col.1:12) The saints in that context referring to the Jews whom God has called to be the light of the world, God having chosen them to be in covenant with Him.. Abraham being the first, he is the father of faith to us all. The apostle Paul was first a Jew outwardly, then He became a Jew inwardly.. a Messianic Jew.. an apostle of God's light unto the Gentiles (Rm.11:13). The Messianic Jews, and the Gentile Christians are not Israel. They are the Church. The Church does not become Israel. We are engrafted into the Olive Tree, we do not become the Tree. The Church does not replace Israel. There are three.. The Jews- Israel. The Church- the Body of Christ. The Gentiles- the nations. (1 Cor.10:32) We don't replace Israel. We become part of Israel through adoption. A Christian is a Christian, period. God doesn't make distinction between Jewish Christians and gentile Christians. We are all become Israel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joulre2abba Posted April 30, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 463 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/08/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Firm Foundation said: We don't replace Israel. We become part of Israel through adoption. A Christian is a Christian, period. God doesn't make distinction between Jewish Christians and gentile Christians. We are all become Israel. I said "The Messianic Jews, and the Gentile Christians are not Israel. They are the Church." What we become by adoption is heirs of Christ. If God doesn't make distinctions, then we are not to give ourselves the distinction of being Israel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted April 30, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Joulre2abba said: I said "The Messianic Jews, and the Gentile Christians are not Israel. They are the Church." What we become by adoption is heirs of Christ. If God doesn't make distinctions, then we are not to give ourselves the distinction of being Israel. That doesn't make sense. Since all the church is Israel, there is no distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joulre2abba Posted April 30, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 463 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/08/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Firm Foundation said: That doesn't make sense. Since all the church is Israel, there is no distinction. It is true that Jews and Christians have no distinction because all are in Christ. However, according to what I have written in my posts, I'm speaking in regard to the apostles.. if they meant to convey that all Jews & Christians.. are Israel, then the apostles would have used the word "Israel" at anytime that they were speaking of all believers in Christ. But, the apostles don't do that. They always refer to the Jews and Christians as "the church". It is always the church., not ever Israel. In order to distinguish between the non-Messianic Jews who alone are called Israel. That is why I used the scripture verse in 1 Cor.10:32 .. that verse makes distinction between Jews, Christians and the nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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