"Turn or Burn" Is Not My Gospel

[Still Alive]

On 5/14/2019 at 1:41 PM, missmuffet said:

Why do you not like the saying "Turn or burn"?

As for me, I love the phrase. It synopsizes the teaching perfectly. I don't believe it, but that phrase effectively describes it.

http://www.jewishnotgreek.com/ 

[Still Alive]

On 5/14/2019 at 10:58 AM, enoob57 said:

so how will we perish and worm does not?
Isa 14:11
Mark 9:44-49
Rev 14:10-11
 

What do you mean, "we". I'm not my body. I merely occupy it (Paul called it a "tent"). It will die, guaranteed. Mine will be cremated after it die's.

[Jayne]

No one likes to think about hell.  Too many people in general and Christians specifically like to think about heaven, which in their mind is us "gaining our angel wings" and sitting on clouds with haloes and white robes playing a bunch of crummy harps.

Heaven is eternal.  What will we do there?  I don't know.  Serve God, work, live in perfection.  I can't say.  But we won't turn into angels.  Angels and humans are distinct creations and will always be.

Hell is eternal.  The Bible says so.  "eternal fire", "worm dies not", "eternal punishment", "weeping and gnashing of teeth", "everlasting contempt", "punishment of eternal destruction",  "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever".

WHY is hell eternal.  I don't like that it is.  I have lost people that I love and pray for.  It hurts me to think of hell being eternal.  But it is.

WHY???

•  We are eternal beings.  When God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul, he became an eternal soul.  Not immortal.  That would mean he would have had no beginning but he did.  We all did.  And we all, since Adam, have an eternal soul and it will reside somewhere for eternity.
•  God is a God of love - we know that - or else all of us would endure hell - right NOW.  God, if not loving God, would have outgrown his patience a long time ago and just dumped us all into hell - but he did not and will not until he see that the gospel is spread to all.  So says the Bible in 1 or 2 Peter - I can't bring the verse to mind.
•  BECAUSE God loves perfectly - he HAS to be a God of wrath.  God cannot and will not love what is evil.  He caused his own Son to turn INTO sin [2 Corinthians 5:21, I know this one] and he "smited" his Son according to Isaiah the prophet.  All on behalf of saving us from evil.  God hates evil - forever past and forever future.
•  If lost and sinful people could just live a life of evil all their days and revel in it....lying, cheating, raping, using porn, living in bitterness, vengeance, and more - and never pay a price for that, just "toast" a little after death for a few seconds and then it's over - then why turn to Jesus?  You'll never reap what you sowed.  Are we asking God or believing God to just "wipe away" their debt?  Make things alright again.  He's already done that - by sending Jesus to the cross and when we accept and submit to that sins are wiped away and things are made new.  When one rejects that, the debt cannot be erased....and annihilating the lost will not erase the debt.
•  The Bible says that both non-believers and Christians will receive new bodies to live eternally......somewhere.  Heaven or hell.

What is the fire, the smoke, the worm, the gnashing of teeth....

Whatever it is - literal or figurative - and that's another thread, it is torment.  And it is eternal.

And that does not mar God's love, his holiness, his patience with us, or his mercy/grace.

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Still Alive said:

Mine will be cremated after it die's.

And hopefully not before. 

[Still Alive]

11 minutes ago, Jayne said:

No one likes to think about hell.  Too many people in general and Christians specifically like to think about heaven, which in their mind is us "gaining our angel wings" and sitting on clouds with haloes and white robes playing a bunch of crummy harps.

Heaven is eternal.  What will we do there?  I don't know.  Serve God, work, live in perfection.  I can't say.  But we won't turn into angels.  Angels and humans are distinct creations and will always be.

Hell is eternal.  The Bible says so.  "eternal fire", "worm dies not", "eternal punishment", "weeping and gnashing of teeth", "everlasting contempt", "punishment of eternal destruction",  "the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever".

WHY is hell eternal.  I don't like that it is.  I have lost people that I love and pray for.  It hurts me to think of hell being eternal.  But it is.

WHY???

•  We are eternal beings.  When God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul, he became an eternal soul.  Not immortal.  That would mean he would have had no beginning but he did.  We all did.  And we all, since Adam, have an eternal soul and it will reside somewhere for eternity.
•  God is a God of love - we know that - or else all of us would endure hell - right NOW.  God, if not loving God, would have outgrown his patience a long time ago and just dumped us all into hell - but he did not and will not until he see that the gospel is spread to all.  So says the Bible in 1 or 2 Peter - I can't bring the verse to mind.
•  BECAUSE God loves perfectly - he HAS to be a God of wrath.  God cannot and will not love what is evil.  He caused his own Son to turn INTO sin [2 Corinthians 5:21, I know this one] and he "smited" his Son according to Isaiah the prophet.  All on behalf of saving us from evil.  God hates evil - forever past and forever future.
•  If lost and sinful people could just live a life of evil all their days and revel in it....lying, cheating, raping, using porn, living in bitterness, vengeance, and more - and never pay a price for that, just "toast" a little after death for a few seconds and then it's over - then why turn to Jesus?  You'll never reap what you sowed.  Are we asking God or believing God to just "wipe away" their debt?  Make things alright again.  He's already done that - by sending Jesus to the cross and when we accept and submit to that sins are wiped away and things are made new.  When one rejects that, the debt cannot be erased....and annihilating the lost will not erase the debt.
•  The Bible says that both non-believers and Christians will receive new bodies to live eternally......somewhere.  Heaven or hell.

What is the fire, the smoke, the worm, the gnashing of teeth....

Whatever it is - literal or figurative - and that's another thread, it is torment.  And it is eternal.

And that does not mar God's love, his holiness, his patience with us, or his mercy/grace.

I don't believe all humans are eternal beings. I believe God is eternal. I believe God can make us eternal, but that involves things like the tree of life, and explains this:

Genesis 3: 22-24

"And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

Salvation's necessity goes all the way back to Genesis 3, and the fate of the lost is also first discussed in Genesis 3.

[Neighbor]

4 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

I don't believe all humans are eternal beings. I believe God is eternal. I believe God can make us eternal, but that involves things like the tree of life, and explains this:

Genesis 3: 22-24

"And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."

Salvation's necessity goes all the way back to Genesis 3, and the fate of the lost is also first discussed in Genesis 3.

I have always kinda wondered why Lucifer did not say  eat,  eat of the tree of life, and then have a tree of knowledge fruit juice chaser.

But He didn't. Perhaps because? Maybe because  Eve as well as Adam as innocents were already eternal beings, one's  never to know of death at all,  that death itself did not even exist until God slew an animal, with the earth then absorbing it's blood, a sacrifice for temporary covering of sin, the first sin of this replenished place to use it's skin to make covering of sin garments for Eve and Adam until God's wrath  and it's consequence came upon them. Is it odd that  Go ddid not also make a garment for Lucifer? Guess His wrath was greater upon Lucifer, by comparison to the awfully fearce wrath, though righteous wrath, on the first couple of humanity.

And here we are today, many saved by the very grace and mercy of God, set from before the beginning itself.

Praise God that He is not fair, but instead merciful.

[Still Alive]

7 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

I have always kinda wondered why Lucifer did not say  eat,  eat of the tree of life, and then have a tree of knowledge fruit juice chaser.

But He didn't. Perhaps because? Maybe because  Eve as well as Adam as innocents were already eternal beings, one's  never to know of death at all,  that death itself did not even exist until God slew an animal, with the earth then absorbing it's blood, a sacrifice for temporary covering of sin, the first sin of this replenished place to use it's skin to make covering of sin garments for Eve and Adam until God's wrath  and it's consequence came upon them. Is it odd that  Go ddid not also make a garment for Lucifer? Guess His wrath was greater upon Lucifer, by comparison to the awfully fearce wrath, though righteous wrath, on the first couple of humanity.

And here we are today, many saved by the very grace and mercy of God, set from before the beginning itself.

Praise God that He is not fair, but instead merciful.

I don't take much of genesis literally. 

I'm actually watching an excellent five hour lesson by Michael Heiser about Genesis in the context of other ancient civilizations. Quite fascinating. He starts off with a bang and covers much of what is found here: http://www.michaelsheiser.com/Genesis 1 and creation.pdf

In the table there, go to this part: View # 3 -Pre-Creation Chaos and option B. Then read the analysis of all three views after that. Interesting stuff.

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Still Alive

[Jayne]

5 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

I don't take much of genesis literally. 

I'd be interested in knowing which parts you do take literally.  Not to argue.  I'm just interested.

[Still Alive]

8 minutes ago, Jayne said:

I'd be interested in knowing which parts you do take literally.  Not to argue.  I'm just interested.

Well, it's a really big and detailed book. I really can't address it here. Suffice it to say that my tag line really covers where I'm going here. And to add clarity, I believe that how many times the rooster crowed is irrelevant. I don't take it literally. The point is that Jesus told him that before the day was out, Peter would do what he said he would not do, and more than once. 

In all seriousness, the link I provided really gets into the whole "what should we take away from the Genesis account" question.

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/Genesis 1 and creation.pdf

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Are we any better than Hitler? We are all sinners. 

Here is an interesting thought: If the lost are cast into everlasting torment, and "lost" means not accepting the blood of Christ as forgiveness of sins, does that not mean the Hitler and all the Jews he murdered are going to the same fate - eternal conscious torment?

Most likely yes in my view. All who deliberately reject Christ are condemning themselves. Jesus makes it very clear.