How serious is...

[Guest]

I wonder if perhaps we can take a step back. If you look up the topic of 'cohabitation and the church of England' it puts a perspective on things as they are in this day and age. 

Yes, the Bible is clear that marriage is the right way. 

But, real life is never ideal. A loving committed couple these days very often choose to live together for maybe a couple of years or more while they get to know each other, save up for the wedding which is a huge expense. Essentially they live as man and wife in the eyes of all their loved ones. 

This is absolutely a very different scenario from promiscuous and wanton sleeping around! That is bad bad news. Nobody condones that. 

If the churches condemn sych couples, they would be turning perfectly nice people away. The church should keep up with the times. Accept modern lives. Make all welcome. Nobody but God should be judge. 

If you stand at the door of the church and condemn, you cause harm. People need love, understanding and welcoming to worship. If this happens, those cohabiting couples can grow as Christians, get married happily when the time is right and deepen in their trust and love in Christ. 

The same principle with gay people. Warm welcomes and kind assistance with Bible study will effect change in them at a fundamental level. 

Judging, rejecting and cruel prejudice is not the way. It results in guilt, fighting and dreadful unhappiness.

We know what the Bible says. But above all it says love God with all your soul and love your neighbour as yourself. 

Personally i want my path to be one of love and peace. All are sinners and none is better than anyone else in God's eyes. Helping each other towards God is surely the best way. 

That is how i see it anyway. I don't want a hard heart. It achieves nothing good. In the end each soul is accountable to God and our lives are brief.  

 

 

 

[ayin jade]

49 minutes ago, Melinda12 said:

I wonder if perhaps we can take a step back. If you look up the topic of 'cohabitation and the church of England' it puts a perspective on things as they are in this day and age. 

Yes, the Bible is clear that marriage is the right way. 

But, real life is never ideal. A loving committed couple these days very often choose to live together for maybe a couple of years or more while they get to know each other, save up for the wedding which is a huge expense. Essentially they live as man and wife in the eyes of all their loved ones. 

This is absolutely a very different scenario from promiscuous and wanton sleeping around! That is bad bad news. Nobody condones that. 

If the churches condemn sych couples, they would be turning perfectly nice people away. The church should keep up with the times. Accept modern lives. Make all welcome. Nobody but God should be judge. 

If you stand at the door of the church and condemn, you cause harm. People need love, understanding and welcoming to worship. If this happens, those cohabiting couples can grow as Christians, get married happily when the time is right and deepen in their trust and love in Christ. 

The same principle with gay people. Warm welcomes and kind assistance with Bible study will effect change in them at a fundamental level. 

Judging, rejecting and cruel prejudice is not the way. It results in guilt, fighting and dreadful unhappiness.

We know what the Bible says. But above all it says love God with all your soul and love your neighbour as yourself. 

Personally i want my path to be one of love and peace. All are sinners and none is better than anyone else in God's eyes. Helping each other towards God is surely the best way. 

That is how i see it anyway. I don't want a hard heart. It achieves nothing good. In the end each soul is accountable to God and our lives are brief.  

 

 

 

It costs very little to get married. If they chose to sin in a relationship without marriage, all to save up for that big fancy wedding, then clearly their priorities are not on the Lord. For anyone to say oh thats just fine is also wrong. 

God doesnt change. He doesnt say hey its ok to live together while you wait for the right time. He doesnt say hey its ok to live as a gay couple and worship in church until you feel like its ok to stop doing that. 

God doesnt say openly accept unrepentent sin into the church. 1 corinthians 5 is quite plain on that. 

 

[Guest]

How can you possibly assume anything about a couple's private finances? Why should anyone rush into a cheap wedding? It is their business to do their big day as they want and invite all their loved ones. It costs a lot of money. Why should anyone risk everything of their life by marrying in haste? This is astonishing condemnation and interference in people's lives. 

The churches will be empty. What purpose does that serve? Nobody wants to come and face such condemnation.

I am a committed christian and i have felt the holy spirit very powerfully. Good thing too because reading many of the harsh judgmental replies on this topic have deeply upset me. If i was not a deep strong believer i would now consider stopping being a christian. I do not ever want to be like some who are so dogmatic. Such attitudes mist certainly damage others and do not bring them to the Lord. 

[Deborah_]

The fact that we are debating this issue at all shows how deeply our contemporary culture has seeped into our churches. Not only is it becoming acceptable for couples to live together in an open-ended relationship (which may break up quickly or only after many years, just like a marriage), but an expensive wedding is deemed the most important thing about getting married.

(In case you're wondering, my husband and I got engaged 6 months after meeting for the first time and "rushed into" marriage 6 months after that. That was 37 years ago)

To hold to a 'traditional' Christian sexual ethic is now a powerful witness because it is so counter-cultural.

[Littlelambseativy]

I was surprised to have the expression...” if Jesus was here today He would understand that times have changed from the Bible days and He would accept it” in Melinda’s words “ as they are in this day and age”. Man changes, becomes more accepting of the world view but God does not change nor do His standards. What was wrong 6000 years ago is still wrong today. Sin is sin no matter how one colours it or coats it in layers of sugar to make it more palpable. The couple are sinning according to God’s word plain and simple . There is no other way to couch it. Churches are made of people who sin daily and to accept members will veer from God’s word and accept man’s ways. Solomon said there is nothing new under the sun...this is not new thinking. It is wrong. It is sin.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Littlelambseativy

[Guest]

Things have changed though. Women are not viewed in the helpless and lowly position of Biblical times. These days women do not need a man to support them. Young women now can support themselves so marriage is not viewed with the urgency and necessity it once was. Finances are a big consideration in marriage. 

Nothing in terms of human emotions and in romantic matters has ever been simple. Each person has the freedom to lead their life as they see fit. God gave this to us to use. Of course we are guided in the Bible to follow His way, accept Christ as Saviour. But, each of us must account to God our actions and dilemmas. Not judge each other. Why should it concern you what someone else does with their life? None of us is fit to judge. Ours is to obey God as best we can. 

Condemnation never wins souls to Christ. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Melinda12

[Littlelambseativy]

One who is a born again Christian has freedom in Christ because they know what pleases Him and we yearn to please Him. To go against His word does not please Him but grieves Him. His word is our protection from self harm or harm from another. Ours is to obey Him and His word not our interpretation of His word...to suit our pleasures or ways of life. To follow His Word  is to have no regrets.

[Jayne]

8 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

eI am a committed christian and i have felt the holy spirit very powerfully. Good thing too because reading many of the harsh judgmental replies on this topic have deeply upset me. If i was not a deep strong believer i would now consider stopping being a christian. I do not ever want to be like some who are so dogmatic. Such attitudes mist certainly damage others and do not bring them to the Lord. 

Again, I do not understand why you think that we are such monsters.  Enough to leave Christ???? You keep saying that we do nothing but condemn people in our churches.  I've shared with you, with examples, that this is not true.

Does your pastor NEVER speak about sin and how to overcome it?  For you to say that you are almost willing to consider renouncing Christ because of people on a online message board whom you think are horrible does not speak of a committed Christian to me, Melinda12.  Surely you didn't mean that.

Let me tell you this story about me from a few weeks ago.

My pastor announced on Sunday morning that his Sunday night message would be on Christians with a critical spirit and how to overcome it.

I felt convicted by the Holy Spirit and told my pastor so in tears immediately after the service.  He looked surprised and said, "You?".  I said, "Yes, me."  I never said those things, but had them in my heart against a few people in my church.

I prayed all afternoon for the Holy Spirit to speak to me during the message that night and he did.

What if my pastor said, "Well, I want to preach on what to do if you have a critical spirit, but I might offend people and they will abandon the church and won't come back. I have to ignore the sins of the church for fear I won't have a church."

Christians are called to speak the truth in love.  To love those who are lost and evangelize them to the Lord.  To love those entrenched in sin enough that we don't let them stay there.

And there are dogmas in the Bible.  One doesn't have to be obnoxious in presenting them, but those commandments must be presented and the truth must be told.

Love all as Christ loves.  And Christ loved to the extent that he called people on their sins - in a manner that drew them to him.  We should present the truth of Christ and the Bible in a manner that draws the lost and sinful to Christ.

To ignore what the Bible teaches is very sad to me.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Jayne