Kenneth Copeland/Inside Edition/Full Interview

[Debp]

1 hour ago, Behold said:

just stopped watching the video.

So, I really can't weigh in with a judgement because i honestly don't know where the money comes from that finances some of the things that he uses.

He is a globe trotting minister, so, i personally dont have an issue with him owning a jet.

Since I watched the entire video, just thought I'd mention a couple of things in order to be fair.

Re his finances:  Besides earning money from books, etc, he said there is alot of natural gas on his property.  So people receive income when they lease the rights to minerals, etc, on their property.

Re his jet: He does a tremendous amount of flying to various countries (very long flights) for ministry in short time periods.   This would be difficult for any of us.  He said actor Tyler Perry gave him such a good deal on the jet, that he couldn't pass that deal up.   

[Behold]

22 hours ago, Debp said:

Since I watched the entire video, just thought I'd mention a couple of things in order to be fair.

Re his finances:  Besides earning money from books, etc, he said there is alot of natural gas on his property.  So people receive income when they lease the rights to minerals, etc, on their property.

Re his jet: He does a tremendous amount of flying to various countries (very long flights) for ministry in short time periods.   This would be difficult for any of us.  He said actor Tyler Perry gave him such a good deal on the jet, that he couldn't pass that deal up.   

Seems reasonable, Debp.

Its also a fact that a lot of what he owns, was given to him.

For example, he has some type of Lodge, and quite a bit of property.... He is usually seen in this place, when he does his morning program.  This place was gifted to him.

Someone said to me one time...."why should the Devil's people have all the money".    And someone else stated... "It costs to reach the lost, and not just your time".

I have no issue with a believer being rich, and neither does God.   In fact, the more money you have, the more money you can spend to help, to love, to bless.

So, it really does come down to heart motive and self control and application of finances.

It very well could be that there are more rich Christians who are totally sold out to the Lord, who give most of it into the work of God, as compared to online forum believers, some who dont have a lot of money, and give none of it to help the poor or even tithe.    They see a dirty and worn person standing outside in the August Heat, near a Red Light, holding a sign that says "hungry", and the one thought they have is...>"get a job".

God would know the actual numbers, in both cases,  but i can know its true.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Behold

[Blood Bought 1953]

$

1 hour ago, Behold said:

Seems reasonable, Debp.

Its also a fact that a lot of what he owns, was given to him.

For example, he has some type of Lodge, and quite a bit of property.... He is usually seen in this place, when he does his morning program.  This place was gifted to him.

Someone said to me one time...."why should the Devil's people have all the money".    And someone else stated... "It costs to reach the lost, and not just your time".

I have no issue with a believer being rich, and neither does God.   In fact, the more money you have, the more money you can spend to help, to love, to bless.

So, it really does come down to heart motive and self control and application of finances.

It very well could be that there are more rich Christians who are totally sold out to the Lord, who give most of it into the work of God, as compared to online forum believers, some who dont have a lot of money, and give none of it to help the poor or even tithe.    They see a dirty and worn person standing outside in the August Heat, near a Red Light, holding a sign that says "hungry", and the one thought they have is...>"get a job".

God would know the actual numbers, in both cases,  but i can know its true.

 

I cant speak for all cities .....It  is a FACT in my city that every pair of socks or anything else you could think to give out of the kindness of your heart to help these “ dirty, worn, poor souls” with the scrawled signs ,will be taken to the other side of town within the hour and traded for Dope.Another poor soul left a great job at a coke plant on his lunch hour, put a sign around his neck that said “Hungry, need Help” and never returned to the plant.He hides his nice truck when he begs and was caught at Wal-Mart buying a large screen TV to add to his other two.His home has ample room for all three of them.There exists many more examples of this stuff from my hometown ......I doubt if we are unique.I only give to time- tested organizations like Salvation Army, etc.....Avoid getting scammed by these types....

[BeauJangles]

Lavish living for some ministers has worked out pretty well. It didn't however, for Jim and Tammy Bakker. 

[GandalfTheWise]

Here's a link to a summary of an older US Senate investigation into the Copelands.  It was part of an investigation into the financial practices of a handful of televangelists.   https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/EMIC Copeland 01-5-11.pdf   

The typical place to find info about non-profits is the IRS form 990 which contains quite a bit of useful financial information.  However, churches are exempt from this as well as being exempt from other tax burdens.  This does carry the potential for abuse by hiding what are essential for-profit activities under the guise of "church" work.  It also allows any "church" to more or less hide its finances.  Many churches do use this with integrity because they don't feel they should be reporting such things to the government.  

I should state clearly that churches can be functioning in an ethical and moral manner with good accountability but this lack of reporting requirement as well as sloppy record keeping can make a good church look suspicious.   With regard to "Eagle Mountain International Church" EMIC (which is the legal name of Copeland's ministry), it is difficult to sort out what is what in the report.  Some of this could be sloppy record keeping or it could be a deliberate means to funnel resources to the Copelands without anyone knowing.  The report also contains allegations from former employees about various practices which are unethical.  There appear to be different ministries operating under this single organizational name which do not seem to directly involve the Copelands.  One note is that many churches are legally organized so that membership has voting rights.  EMIC is organized so that a board of directors (which in the past prominently featured the Copelands, relatives, and friends) ran everything.  

My understanding of such things (which is quite limited!!!!) from a legal standpoint is that a key issue is the idea of mingling assets between different legal entities.   As far as I can tell from the report, EMIC record keeping and reporting was so sloppy it is probably impossible to determine what was mingled between the ministry and the Copelands' personal assets.  There could have been a lot of bad abuse of this or a some amount of unintentional sloppiness in conduct.

From a Christian standpoint, there are a lot of doubts here.  I'm not comfortable with either letting it go or having a large ministry jump through many hoops and burn resources responding any time a critic makes an accusation.  I also have no information newer than about 7 or 8 years old so some things I've written here might have changed.  I toss out this report as some more information available.

[BeauJangles]

2 minutes ago, GandalfTheWise said:

With regard to "Eagle Mountain International Church" EMIC (which is the legal name of Copeland's ministry), it is difficult to sort out what is what in the report.  Some of this could be sloppy record keeping or it could be a deliberate means to funnel resources to the Copelands without anyone knowing.  

Wow. How ironic the name of Copeland's church is. There's an American Indian gambling casino in the foothills of the Sierras called, Eagle Mountain. I'm sure it's just a coincident. Right? 

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

By no means is the Bible silent in these matters .....may God have mercy on Copeland and his ilk..... 

C. NOT GREEDY OF FILTHY LUCRE: Must not love money, or be money hungry. The love of money is the root of all evil (1 Tim. 6:10) Context, not greedy, but patient to wait on God. Speaking of false prophets whose mouths must be stopped and who subvert whole households with their false teachings Paul said,  "For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake." (Titus 1:10-11) The TV evangelists and faith healers all use their "ministries" for the money they make. They are all millionaires and the lie to deceive people into sending them money. There are numbers of pastors and preachers whose also fall into the category. Large salaries, high positions and notoriety are lucrative reasons to aspire to preach. Look at what is the man's life style and you will see what motivates them. 

E. NOT COVETOUS: Again a reference to money, this time with reference to idolatry. He should not be a person who put the pursuit of wealth above everything else. He should not be a person who loves flashy cars and extravagance.

[unworthyservant]

On 8/30/2019 at 5:46 PM, Blood Bought 1953 said:

$

 

I cant speak for all cities .....It  is a FACT in my city that every pair of socks or anything else you could think to give out of the kindness of your heart to help these “ dirty, worn, poor souls” with the scrawled signs ,will be taken to the other side of town within the hour and traded for Dope.Another poor soul left a great job at a coke plant on his lunch hour, put a sign around his neck that said “Hungry, need Help” and never returned to the plant.He hides his nice truck when he begs and was caught at Wal-Mart buying a large screen TV to add to his other two.His home has ample room for all three of them.There exists many more examples of this stuff from my hometown ......I doubt if we are unique.I only give to time- tested organizations like Salvation Army, etc.....Avoid getting scammed by these types....

I have my own solution to that conundrum. It's simple, I don't give cash money to anyone when I don't know how they will spend it so I'll simply either ask them what they need the money for and offer to buy that thing (if it's reasonable) or offer to buy them a burger or something. While Christ didn't actually teach that we should worry about how someone got into a condition of need it is true that some out there are taking advantage of the goodness of people when they are not of necessity poor so we must be sure that our gifts are not being used to perpetrate the same behaviors that got them in their condition in the first place. And on the point of folks like Mr. Copeland making millions for themselves and building earthly treasures for themselves the Bible tells us that to whom more is given more is expected, so they'll have to answer to the same God as you and I and then we'll see what God meant by more is expected. Until then, I'm going with the theory "If I'm wrong, so what, but if they're wrong, then what?"

[unworthyservant]

On 8/30/2019 at 6:08 PM, PromisesPromises! said:

"Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.  For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known.  Therefore whatever you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have spoken in the ear in inner rooms will be proclaimed on the housetops."  

The teachings of Christ said it all! and I'm just trying to bring as much as I can to the light of those teachings while I'm on this earth. I imagine we'll all be amazed at what comes to light in that day when God reveals all.