Dennis1209 Posted September 12, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,377 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2019 I've been stumped and searching for a satisfactory answer for quite some time now. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on an event in Genesis Chapter 32:, In particular, Gen. 32: 24-30. Suddenly and out of nowhere Jacob starts wrestling with a 'man' and Jacob eventually wins the wrestling match. By all appearances, this 'man' seems to be Christ pre incarnate, as He renames Jacob to Israel. Israel appears to have a life long limp as a reminder for the rest of his life. This doesn't seem to be a vision but an actual physical event. So, can anyone explain this encounter and what's it all about?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted September 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,936 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2019 It means God will not test u more than ur power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted September 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2019 (edited) Question: "What is the meaning of Jacob wrestling with God?" Answer: To best answer this question, it helps to know, among other things, that deep-seated family hostilities characterized Jacob’s life. He was a determined man; some would consider him to be ruthless. He was a con artist, a liar, and a manipulator. In fact, the name Jacob not only means “deceiver,” but more literally it means “grabber.” To know Jacob’s story is to know his life was one of never-ending struggles. Though God promised Jacob that through him would come not only a great nation, but a whole company of nations, he was a man full of fears and anxieties. At a pivotal point in his life, Jacob was about to meet his brother, Esau, who had vowed to kill him. All Jacob’s struggles and fears were about to be realized. Sick of his father-in-law's treatment, Jacob had fled Laban, only to encounter his embittered brother, Esau. Anxious for his very life, Jacob concocted a bribe and sent a caravan of gifts along with his women and children across the River Jabbok in hopes of pacifying his brother. Now physically exhausted, alone in the desert wilderness, facing sure death, he was divested of all his worldly possessions. In fact, he was powerless to control his fate. He collapsed into a deep sleep on the banks of the Jabbok River. With his father-in-law behind him and Esau before him, he was too spent to struggle any longer. But only then did his real struggle begin. Fleeing his family history had been bad enough; wrestling with God Himself was a different matter altogether. That night an angelic stranger visited Jacob. They wrestled throughout the night until daybreak, at which point the stranger crippled Jacob with a blow to his hip that disabled him with a limp for the rest of his life. It was then that Jacob realized what had happened: “I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared” (Genesis 32:30). In the process, Jacob the deceiver received a new name, Israel, which likely means: “He struggles with God.” However, what is most important occurred at the conclusion of that struggle. We read that God “blessed him there” (Genesis 32:29). In Western culture and even in our churches, we celebrate wealth, power, strength, confidence, prestige, and victory. We despise and fear weakness, failure, and doubt. Though we know that a measure of vulnerability, fear, discouragement, and depression come with normal lives, we tend to view these as signs of failure or even a lack of faith. However, we also know that in real life, naïve optimism and the glowing accolades of glamour and success are a recipe for discontent and despair. Sooner or later, the cold, hard realism of life catches up with most of us. The story of Jacob pulls us back to reality. Frederick Buechner, one the most read authors by Christian audiences, characterizes Jacob’s divine encounter at the Jabbok River as the “magnificent defeat of the human soul at the hands of God.” It’s in Jacob’s story we can easily recognize our own elements of struggle: fears, darkness, loneliness, vulnerabilities, empty feelings of powerlessness, exhaustion, and relentless pain. Even the apostle Paul experienced similar discouragements and fears: “We were harassed at every turn—conflicts on the outside, fears within” (2 Corinthians 7:5). But, in truth, God does not want to leave us with our trials, our fears, our battles in life. What we come to learn in our conflicts of life is that God proffers us a corresponding divine gift. It is through Him that we can receive the power of conversion and transformation, the gift of not only surrender, but freedom, and the gifts of endurance, faith, and courage. In the end, Jacob does what we all must do. He confronts his failures, his weaknesses, his sins, all the things that are hurting him . . . and faces God. Jacob wrestled with God all night. It was an exhausting struggle that left him crippled. It was only after he came to grips with God and ceased his struggling, realizing that he could not go on without Him, that he received God’s blessing (Genesis 32:29). What we learn from this remarkable incident in the life of Jacob is that our lives are never meant to be easy. This is especially true when we take it upon ourselves to wrestle with God and His will for our lives. We also learn that as Christians, despite our trials and tribulations, our strivings in this life are never devoid of God’s presence, and His blessing inevitably follows the struggle, which can sometimes be messy and chaotic. Real growth experiences always involve struggle and pain. Jacob’s wrestling with God at the Jabbok that dark night reminds us of this truth: though we may fight God and His will for us, in truth, God is so very good. As believers in Christ, we may well struggle with Him through the loneliness of night, but by daybreak His blessing will come. https://www.gotquestions.org/Jacob-wrestling-with-God.html Edited September 13, 2019 by missmuffet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzephanyahu Posted September 13, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,625 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,033 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2019 Shalom @Dennis1209, Great topic to raise. A very mysterious part of Scripture. And beyond the event itself, what about these considerations... Why is the being called a "man"? Who started the fight? Why could the "man" not defeat the typically weak Jacob? Why couldn't the "man" escape Jacob's grasp even after striking his hip? Could he be that much weaker? Why did the "man" stress about leaving before daybreak? If Jacob thought the "man" could bless him (thereby acknowledging his opponent is of higher stead), why did he treat him so violently? Why did the "man" ask Jacob's name? Why is the place called Peniel in verse 30, but Penuel in verse 31 straight after? Is there a hidden meaning within the subtle variance? Love & Shalom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted September 13, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2019 As Jeremiah 1 said, 'the Word touched my lips..'. Yes a real PERSON wrestled with Jacob, soon to become Israel. The second Yahweh (as ancient Hebrews called Him) is the Lord Yeshua, often seen in the Tanach and sometimes a messenger that is Yahweh in person (The Word). Of course He could have called a bunch of heavenly warriors to trounce Jacob, but He wanted to just make a point. We are all given free will and are Imagers of the Godhead. Jacob was called elsewhere 'the supplanter'. He was one tough dude. Yeshua liked this tenacity and gave him a hip-thing just to remind Him later. God LOVES His Creation and will bend over backwards to accommodate us all. So Jacob named the place Peniel, saying, "Indeed, I have seen God face to face, and yet my life was spared." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted September 13, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: I've been stumped and searching for a satisfactory answer for quite some time now. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on an event in Genesis Chapter 32:, In particular, Gen. 32: 24-30. Suddenly and out of nowhere Jacob starts wrestling with a 'man' and Jacob eventually wins the wrestling match. By all appearances, this 'man' seems to be Christ pre incarnate, as He renames Jacob to Israel. Israel appears to have a life long limp as a reminder for the rest of his life. This doesn't seem to be a vision but an actual physical event. So, can anyone explain this encounter and what's it all about?? So what answer did you get from what commentaries that you read? How did your preacher answer this question?@ ditto the masses of preachers recorded online? In short what answers did you find and why do you think we will have better answers than the great preachers of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted September 13, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,377 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Tzephanyahu said: Shalom @Dennis1209, Great topic to raise. A very mysterious part of Scripture. And beyond the event itself, what about these considerations... Why is the being called a "man"? Who started the fight? Why could the "man" not defeat the typically weak Jacob? Why couldn't the "man" escape Jacob's grasp even after striking his hip? Could he be that much weaker? Why did the "man" stress about leaving before daybreak? If Jacob thought the "man" could bless him (thereby acknowledging his opponent is of higher stead), why did he treat him so violently? Why did the "man" ask Jacob's name? Why is the place called Peniel in verse 30, but Penuel in verse 31 straight after? Is there a hidden meaning within the subtle variance? Love & Shalom Exactly the questions I ponder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted September 13, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.55 Reputation: 9,015 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted September 13, 2019 I have always seen this episode in Jacob's life as an example for us of how our 'natural' strength needs to be dealt with by our Lord. Its difficult for conniving manipulative personalities to let go and let God...so to speak. Or to be used by God in this world. The wounding of our natural man makes way for a transforming into His likeness...Jacob walked with a limp. A type of that weakening. He was a different man, from that day on and God put the accent on this by changing his name to Israel. From Israel would come others....David...Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravindran Posted September 13, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 398 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/18/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2019 14 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: I've been stumped and searching for a satisfactory answer for quite some time now. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on an event in Genesis Chapter 32:, In particular, Gen. 32: 24-30. Suddenly and out of nowhere Jacob starts wrestling with a 'man' and Jacob eventually wins the wrestling match. By all appearances, this 'man' seems to be Christ pre incarnate, as He renames Jacob to Israel. Israel appears to have a life long limp as a reminder for the rest of his life. This doesn't seem to be a vision but an actual physical event. So, can anyone explain this encounter and what's it all about?? Almost all the translations put a header "Jacob wrestles with God". I wonder if it was Jacob who started the fight. Verse 24 actually says a man wrestles with him. It was actually God wrestling with Jacob. Often we would find ourselves cornered and alone. God allows us to go through those circumstances. Then God wrestles with us (our character). When we come to a point of surrender (I will not leave you), then God breaks us and uses us for His glory. This is one of mysteries of Scripture. There are numerous applications that could be drawn out of this. They would all be applications only and should be taken that way only. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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