Christian socialism

[Seasoned by Grace]

18 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

Socialism demands money from those who earned it. That is a love of money. Wealth redistribution is core in socialism. That is a love of money.

FOLKS IT'S ALL ABOUT CONTROL OF THE MANY BY THE FEW NOT JUST REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH.

See MARXISM, NATZI-ISM, SOCIALISM, COMMUNISM. THE FEW WANT THE CONTROL OF THE MANY, NOT TO HELP ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES.

WE HAVE TO SPEAK UP AGAINST ALL THESE IDEA'S THAT ARE "CLOAKED" IN FALSE CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES TO FOOL THE WEAK IN FAITH.

[johnthebaptist]

1 hour ago, unworthyservant said:

I checked the numbers and while there is no definitive way to assess the ability of percentages of populations who are able but not willing to work, it seems that experts agree that there's probably little if any difference in those numbers between  Socialist country and a Capitalistic one. It's not so much to do with the economic system as it is to do with human nature and the desire of some to live from the labor of others. I never said I wanted my tax dollars to go to anyone who is able but too lazy to work but neither did any socialist that I can find. My point is simply that we shouldn't spend our time debating the pros and cons of economic systems and instead concentrate on what should I as a Christian do with whatever money I have left after the government takes whatever for whatever. As I have said, either system would work equally well if only everyone involved administered it with Christian values and that's never going to happen. The main difference is in Socialism the incentive should be for the greater good of society where in Capitalism the incentive is personal wealth. The Capitalist system just realizes that greed is a bigger motivation than the greater good. 

Experts?

[unworthyservant]

1 minute ago, johnthebaptist said:

Experts?

Rephrase, Reliable Economic Research sources. There are many good studies and many conclusions based on scholarly research focused on Economic systems and their effectiveness. I'm by no means a Economist but I found the research curiously enlightening.

[unworthyservant]

1 hour ago, ayin jade said:

The bible says the love of money is the root of all evil. Socialism demonstrates a love of money.

Both Socialism and Capitalism demonstrate the love of money. In Socialism it's the ruling elite who skim money and in Capitalism the desire for more money (or the things it can afford) is what drives economic prosperity.  The biggest difference is that while Capitalism encourages the accumulation of personal wealth and uses greed to drive folks, pure Socialism puts the state first and if properly managed would distribute wealth more evenly. (It actually doesn't distribute it exactly evenly but does attempt to assure that everyone has enough for their circumstances) That said, the problem with either system is greed and while one uses greed as an impetus for growth the other discourages it and the accumulation of personal wealth is "under the table" as they say. So I say, they are both corrupt because the heart of men is corrupt so let's concentrate on eliminating the corruption in whatever system we find ourselves under. Don't worry about which system is better but how to make the one under which you find yourself better and on sharing the fact that God's love knows no economic system or boundaries. 

[johnthebaptist]

15 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

Rephrase, Reliable Economic Research sources. There are many good studies and many conclusions based on scholarly research focused on Economic systems and their effectiveness. I'm by no means a Economist but I found the research curiously enlightening.

Reliable?

[unworthyservant]

Just now, johnthebaptist said:

Reliable?

As reliable as my research can find. (From sources known for solid Academic research) If you have numbers that you feel are more reliable, I'm happy to research them as well.

[LadyKay]

4 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

So I say, they are both corrupt because the heart of men is corrupt

Yes. I can agree with that. 

[johnthebaptist]

9 minutes ago, unworthyservant said:

As reliable as my research can find. (From sources known for solid Academic research) If you have numbers that you feel are more reliable, I'm happy to research them as well.

If you had an idea to start a business and were willing to work hard, and the business provided lots jobs for your community, would you want the government to take over you business and take all your profits and pay you minimum wage, leaving you little to live on in old age?

[unworthyservant]

30 minutes ago, Seasoned by Grace said:

FOLKS IT'S ALL ABOUT CONTROL OF THE MANY BY THE FEW NOT JUST REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH.

See MARXISM, NATZI-ISM, SOCIALISM, COMMUNISM. THE FEW WANT THE CONTROL OF THE MANY, NOT TO HELP ANYONE BUT THEMSELVES.

First, I believe that even in Capitalism the elite few want to be in control of the many, it's just that they have to convince the many to allow that control. Problem is they don't usually do it honestly. I subscribe to the theory that "Those who desire political power are most often by their very nature those we should least trust to wield it." I believe that applies to any social order or economic system. You put Marxism, Nazism, Socialism, and Communism into one category. I'm not really sure what category that is but one distinction should be noted. While Marxism, Nazism (or Fascism in general) and Communism are political ideologies, Socialism isn't a political system but an economic one that was adopted by Marxists and Communists in general. (the Nazi's hated Communists and didn't subscribe to anything like true Socialism) Socialism itself makes no distinction about the political system under which it is administered and so could be implemented in a Democracy as well as a Communist Dictatorship or a Monarchy.

[unworthyservant]

3 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

If you had an idea to start a business and were willing to work hard, and the business provided lots jobs for your community, would you want the government to take over you business and take all your profits and pay you minimum wage, leaving you little to live on in old age?

I don't understand. If you're asking if I want to live under Socialism, I prefer Capitalism only because the greed is a little more transparent. If it weren't for the human factor that cripples both systems I wouldn't care which system I was under as long as it didn't have rules that would prevent my freedom of worship. I'd be happy if the poor were better taken of whether that care came from the dollars I give to the Government to distribute or by personal distribution. The end result is what matters. Christ told us where our money should go and didn't mention any particular mechanism to distribute it but as long as corruption is rampant in both systems, I prefer the more transparent greed and corruption of Capitalism.