What's wrong with birthdays?

[Yeshua153]

                         Before explaining, Could folks stick to the subject, & not very off into your own arguments of other things, as my last post was locked, because of said arguments, thanks.

                         I know folks might think I am a Jehovah's witness, because of easter & xmass being pagan, but I'm not, but it is the only thing I am in agreement with them on.

                        As for birthdays, they too are of pagan origin, & only twice mentioned in the bible, as in Gen 40 v20-23;

“20 And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants: and he lifted up the head of the chief butler and of the chief baker among his servants. 21 And he restored the chief butler unto his butlership again; and he gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand: 22 But he hanged the chief baker: as Joseph had interpreted to them. 23 Yet did not the chief butler remember Joseph, but forgat him.”

                       Also in Mat 14 v6-12;

“6 But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod. 7 Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask. 8 And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger. 9 And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her. 10 And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison. 11 And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother. 12 And his disciples came, and took up the body, and buried it, and went and told Jesus.” KJV

                     Both of these were not believers, but killers, so biblically, if you want to celebrate, who are you going to kill?  Obviously, births were celebrated, Yeshua's being the chief one, but no yearly celebration.

                     Birthdays, like xmass & easter, are celebrations for self, & presents, food & booze, & I know a lot will say 'what's wrong with that'. Well for me, I want to do God's will, not my own self-will.

 

 

 

 

[GreyJay]

For a few months when I was a kid, I lived on a Native reserve in Canada. There was a debate there among the Christians about whether or not drums should be used in church with worship music. For the people there, drums were associated with rituals to communicate with beings in the spirit world. Because of that association, some Christians thought that it was wrong to try to worship with drums, since they're inherently corrupted by their origins and the purposes they served. Others felt as though it was the heart of the person playing or listening to the drums that determined their acceptability to God, not the intentions of others who'd previously used them for other purposes, or even made them, intending them for other purposes.

What do you think... is there a universal rule about whether or not the Christians on that reserve should use drums in worship, or should believers simply follow their own conscience on the matter, and not try to force their conscience on other believers?

i.e., Romans 14... One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.  Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God... I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.

I don't know if you can really say what birthdays are or aren't to anyone, or any other day for that matter. I don't know if God particularly cares one way or another what the origin or "intended" purpose of anything is. I don't find it especially convincing that God would see into the heart of his child doing something giving thanks to Him with a clean conscience, and be offended because of what once was in the heart of other people while doing that thing. He knows the heart of all people, we don't. I think it's a hard reach to declare universally that anyone celebrating a birthday or any other day can't possibly giving thanks to God while doing it. People should "be convinced in their own mind" in matters like this, and follow Paul's advice, "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God." 1 Cor 10:31.

Maybe the obvious reaction to birthdays, or any other day, isn't "Well, you have been making that day all about you -- or other people have made it about themselves -- so that means that day is inherently corrupt for everyone forever now, and you need to stop celebrating anything on that day." Maybe the obvious reaction is, "Just stop making that day about you, stop letting its intended purpose and origin determine what's in your heart on that day, and from now on, however you choose to do it, do it to the glory of God."

Edited September 25, 2019 by GreyJay

[Justin Adams]

23 minutes ago, GreyJay said:

should believers simply follow their own conscience

At one of the missionary airplane training hangars, some kid was playing rock music. It happened that an Indonesian was there and he freaked out. Why? Because the beat sounded to him just like the local witch-doctor where he lived.

Take great care then. You really do not know where some 'music' originates...

[Tigger56]

2 hours ago, Yeshua153 said:

                         Before explaining, Could folks stick to the subject, & not very off into your own arguments of other things, as my last post was locked, because of said arguments, thanks.

                         I know folks might think I am a Jehovah's witness, because of easter & xmass being pagan, but I'm not, but it is the only thing I am in agreement with them on.

                        As for birthdays, they too are of pagan origin, & only twice mentioned in the bible, as in Gen 40 v20-23;

“20 And it came to pass the third day, which was Pharaoh's birthday, that he made a feast unto all his servants: and he lifted up the head of the chief butler and of the chief baker among his servants. 21 And he restored the chief butler unto his butlership again; and he gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand: 22 But he hanged the chief baker: as Joseph had interpreted to them. 23 Yet did not the chief butler remember Joseph, but forgat him.”

                       Also in Mat 14 v6-12;

“6 But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod. 7 Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask. 8 And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger. 9 And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath's sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her. 10 And he sent, and beheaded John in the prison. 11 And his head was brought in a charger, and given to the damsel: and she brought it to her mother. 12 And his disciples came, and took up the body, and buried it, and went and told Jesus.” KJV

                     Both of these were not believers, but killers, so biblically, if you want to celebrate, who are you going to kill?  Obviously, births were celebrated, Yeshua's being the chief one, but no yearly celebration.

                     Birthdays, like xmass & easter, are celebrations for self, & presents, food & booze, & I know a lot will say 'what's wrong with that'. Well for me, I want to do God's will, not my own self-will.

 

 

 

 

I do not take that birthdays are wrong or pagan from these scriptures. However, the taking of one's head does not appear to be the appropriate thing to do on a birthday or perhaps on any day, so I will definitely refrain from that.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Tigger56
missed one word

[GreyJay]

11 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Take great care then. You really do not know where some 'music' originates...

Take "great care" to do what, though... determine the "origin" of everything before we do it?

Paul's advice is to actually avoid seeking the "origin" in his discussion of the debate around meat sacrificed to idols...

1 cor 10:

²⁵ Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, ²⁶ for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”

²⁷ If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. ²⁸ But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. ²⁹ I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience?

But I do agree that we should take "great care" around others' consciences, and be willing to cheerfully give up our rights for their sake.

Edited September 25, 2019 by GreyJay

[Neighbor]

9 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

You really do not know where some 'music' originates...

And it doesn't much matter where anything originates. It only matter were it ends up. Let me see early Rock n Roll, Rock a billy,  finds it's root  in the worship of one Brother Claude Ely. Listen to him abit, and then think of early Elvis early Little Richard early Jerry Lee Lewis. They all had heard this man of God as he toured about sharing of our Lord Jesus and  of His Gospel.

Worrying about origins is silly. For as all have failed and fallen short of the Glory  of God. All are totally depraved until turned about by God the Holy Spirit. Origins can go back to Adam at least and the curse God placed upon him.

It is what each individual does with the specific call to them from the Holy Spirit  that is all important. 

Finish well and along the way make a joyful noise or two.

 

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Worrying about origins is silly.

He asked a question. I gave an answer. Hang around African Missionaries for a while and ask them about music and drum beat meanings or 'atmospheres'. 

[Neighbor]

Just now, Justin Adams said:

He asked a question. I gave an answer. Hang around African Missionaries for a while and ask them about music and drum beat meanings or 'atmospheres'. 

Yes you did. And so have I. 

[Neighbor]

Just now, Neighbor said:

Hang around African Missionaries for a while

Benin good enough for ya?

[Sower]

Colossians 3:23

“And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;”

As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good

I celebrate the birth of our Saviour, the son of God,  come to fallen man, to save us from damnation.

I also celebrate the birth of my own son. I gave/give eternal thanks to God for so great a blessing.

I see the good in this celebration, the Godly blessing.

Some how, others see evil?

Many pagans had blood sacrifices.
But, so did God

Leviticus 17:11      For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar
to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

Half full/Half empty ?..............