A blessing?

[Guest]

...instead of full wedding? 

A couple in their early 60s. Both Christians. The woman is a widow and her fiancee a gentleman who has never been married. They met, went out for a while and realised they are very compatible and in love. They planned marriage. 

Then the lady realised if she marries, she will lose her late husband's pension he left her. She depends on it. Her fiancee has only a modest wage. They will not be able to manage. 

They cannot marry and live together. They thought about maybe a church blessing, a ceremony without the legal part. At least they could still have their big planned day, commit to each other in the sight of God and loved ones, joyous reception with friends and family. Also their much planned honeymoon. 

What on earth can they do? Is a church blessing the same as being married in front of God?  

 

[BeauJangles]

4 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

What on earth can they do? Is a church blessing the same as being married in front of God?  

It would be rare to obtain a ministerial blessing without a proper ceremony and license to wed. Would moving in as friends and remaining celibate be out of the question? I personally don't see anything unholy about that. Otherwise, it's not really clear and free from potential scrutiny. A situation such as that also necessitates constant explanations as well. However, a lot of couples move in together for financial advantages.    

[missmuffet]

6 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

...instead of full wedding? 

A couple in their early 60s. Both Christians. The woman is a widow and her fiancee a gentleman who has never been married. They met, went out for a while and realised they are very compatible and in love. They planned marriage. 

Then the lady realised if she marries, she will lose her late husband's pension he left her. She depends on it. Her fiancee has only a modest wage. They will not be able to manage. 

They cannot marry and live together. They thought about maybe a church blessing, a ceremony without the legal part. At least they could still have their big planned day, commit to each other in the sight of God and loved ones, joyous reception with friends and family. Also their much planned honeymoon. 

What on earth can they do? Is a church blessing the same as being married in front of God?  

 

If they are both Christians they are going to do what is right in the eyes of God. They will either part ways or stay friends but they can not live together. If they truly love one another and want to marry they will have to part with the pension. 

[Guest]

These are serious implications. Much thought is required. Few can live on fresh air no matter how strong their faith. Breaking up a loving relationship is a tragic tough thing to do.  

[missmuffet]

2 minutes ago, Melinda12 said:

These are serious implications. Much thought is required. Few can live on fresh air no matter how strong their faith. Breaking up a loving relationship is a tragic tough thing to do.  

And money is breaking up this loving relationship. Maybe a little more faith is required. 

[Guest]

Think what you are saying. Vital money, to eat and pay bills. Not luxuries. 

There seems a total lack of love and care in your response. This is a couple who are trying to do the right thing. They need compassion and support. This is your christian response? 

[Neighbor]

11 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

...instead of full wedding? 

A couple in their early 60s. Both Christians. The woman is a widow and her fiancee a gentleman who has never been married. They met, went out for a while and realised they are very compatible and in love. They planned marriage. 

Then the lady realised if she marries, she will lose her late husband's pension he left her. She depends on it. Her fiancee has only a modest wage. They will not be able to manage. 

They cannot marry and live together. They thought about maybe a church blessing, a ceremony without the legal part. At least they could still have their big planned day, commit to each other in the sight of God and loved ones, joyous reception with friends and family. Also their much planned honeymoon. 

What on earth can they do? Is a church blessing the same as being married in front of God?  

 

It is  a hard one. I have lived a similar situation. but regarding assets  and income sources rather than lack of them. The same issues come up. And antenuptial documents really need to be made by two attorneys one for each person.

Here is the biggest question, a most emotionally difficult one to handle: what if this does not work out well and they  decide to separate and/or divorce? It happens and at a slightly higher rate within Christian marrriages than with non christians.  So what happens if they marry  and then divorce? Pensions, homes automobiles inheritances if any. The adult kids if any the grand kids and so on.  The heat of the attraction doesn't much change from early years of life way up onto my own age of - geezerhood. Just the issues get to be far more complicated.

I did my own research for months and my own prayer, and made my own decision. This is one decision that no one is going to make for someone else. As for myself I found that  I could not even ask my pastor to consider blessing/marrying us without getting a legal document from the State, because  if he did so  he would assume some legal liability should  we part later and have disputes or if one of us dies and the heirs have disputes. He would get dragged into it.

So we made our own decision. The process of getting it done was awful!!! It was like getting a divorce before evn getting married. Plus all the legal documentation required, did not catch up with our own wedding date plans. So we exchanged our vows just the two of us onboard a lake bound steamship, then when the paperwork caught up we had a civil ceremony also. Today is our anniversary day one of two we celebrate each year. We love the memory now of the test we had to put ourselves through to get here today.

And, from what we each  went through to get to where  we are today, I think anyone that believes they have the answer for another couple- good luck with that.

ps- One will likely find many if not most all those couples they know and love as friends, and members of the body of Christ are not married by legal decree of any State in the USA. The very State that makes marriage laws and court rulings regarding divorce and inheritance also makes it  nearly impossible to resolve the issues that come up in the union of a mature couple.

May your friends have a grand life together going forward.

[Neighbor]

A post script-There could also be advantage for marriage by document of a State regarding Social security monthly benefits to a survivor. That is one reason why the gay community has been fighting so hard for legal gay marriage documented by State governments.

If I predecease my wife, her monthly benefit will be more than it otherwise would be if we did not marry with State documentation So on the one hand someone might lose a pension or have it reduced, yet on the other hand survivor benefits get affected too. It is all a bit messy going through it. The history of State ( USA) involvement is not all that old. There was a time when States did not involve themself. 

One might also find through legal representation that despite what a retirement program document states, it is not enforceable today. Laws might change forcing changes retro active to some degree. It all takes help from legal counsel. And legal counsel deserves it's wage.

Today's Social Security retirement benefit is not all that secure either. Just a very few years from now  there will have to be changes that will affect millions  of individuals. Tomorrow's security is a crapshoot at best. Might as well life today and not worry excessively about tomorrow.

Besides  no matter what  is done today there will be tomorrow's critic there to say you did it wrong and they told you so.

[Neighbor]

Practical example of how things do not work out all that well no matter how well planned. One could have worked for GE all their adult life and thought their pension and their GE stocks to be the perfect financial security for life. That has turned out to be not so for many.

Even the crummy little death benefit from the VA and from Social Security has been changed by localized administrative decree. The amount is still the same, but eligibility  has been changed. A vet that does not die in a VA facility, nope no $250 toward your funeral expenses. And try filling out th eSocial Security 721 form  if you have bene receiving any kind of monthly support for a child and see if you get the benefit.Plus if there is no Widow or widower there is no longer any benefit paid at all none.

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The upside is that two people joined as one can have a pretty grand time together regardless of resources or lack of them, or even anyone's paperwork testifying to it. I thank God for my own bride, makes the  hardness of life worth the adventure of going through it all. 

[Who me]

Who are they going to lie to?

It is as blunt as that.

Do the lie to the pension company, or to God.