How should I pass on heirlooms that came with strings attached?

[Omegaman off duty]

To whom should family heirlooms be passed to, when they have traditional obligations or conditions attached?

There once was a man, who bought a Bible, back in the 1800’s. It was a big Bible, with places for recording births, deaths, and marriages; in short it became a record of the family tree. As people had children in this family, new generations arose, but, there was just this one family Bible.
There was also a gold pocket watch, also of 1800’s vintage, which has some inscriptions in it.
Both the Bible and the watch, were handed down to firstborn sons in each generation who also had sons, so that these heirlooms would be continually handed down to those who carried on the family name. This was the intent of the tradition, handed down to males, because males have the family name, while females presumably do not have children until they are married, and their maiden names change to the last name of their new spouse.
One man in this family had three sons. The oldest had a son by adoption. The middle son had a son, be natural means. Since that son was in the bloodline of the family, the Bible and watch went to the middle son, with the intention that again; the Bible and watch would be handed done to the natural born son continuing the same last name.
The Bible and watch were handed down, to that son, and he still has them. He also has two sons. One of these sons was born before the other, but only by minutes, as they were delivered by Caesarean section of multiple babies.
Now, the Bible and watch have not been passed on to either of these sons, primarily because neither of them have sons of their own, or any children, for that matter. The older of the two sons, is not married, and it is not obvious, that this will change. The sons are 32 years old, their father is 69 years old, and longevity is in question. The younger of the sons, is about to be married (within months) so likelihood of children is better there, but no guarantees, and even less guarantees of a male child (some people produce only girls)
There is also a daughter who has a son, but is unmarried. Her last name remains intact, and is also her son’s last name.
In as much as the man with the Bible and watch has perhaps not many years left to live, and no son has had a son to pass the Bible and watch through, the man is wanting to have this issue settled in his mind – where should the Bible and watch go, if it is not handed down in his lifetime, what should his will dictate?
Any ideas, suggestions, wisdom?

[Repose]

Was that previous transfer to the second eldest noted in the bible's list? If so, then whatever goes on could also be made note of here. 

If I were this man, I think I'd ask the kids what their thoughts are. Whatever decision is reached would be made note of in the pages, and the items who go to whomever it was decided to obtain possession of them.

Also, in case I passed on before a point, I'd maybe leave it with a trusted one, one who could handle the estate.

[BeauJangles]

How should I pass on heirlooms that came with strings attached?

This just made Genealogy 101 the most complicated story I've ever heard.

I was apparently not destined to have children, but I did inherit my grandfather's Elgin conductor's watch that he had from working on the Sante Fe railroad. No, it isn't high karat gold, but it is a collectable timepiece nonetheless, and with some substantial monetary value.

His only son passed away in a head-on collision not far from where Jimmy Dean crashed his 550 Porsche Spyder in Cholame, California. So, when both grandparents came to the care of my mom in their passing years, my grandfather presented it to me not long before slipping into senile dementia.

I was admonished not to tell the remaining living aunties in the family, because some jealousy might arise. It's a secret to this day, and neither of the two living aunties I have left has ever questioned me concerning its whereabouts. All the sisters on my mom's side had sons, and I was chosen as the recipient.     

Edited November 2, 2019 by BeauJangles

[other one]

assuming all the children are trustworthy, I would give possession to the daughter for her son.   He is the firstborn with the name.

Should he not have children he should then give it to one of the twins who has children.   If the children are not trustworthy then he should have both pieces put in his casket if he is to be buried.   One must be worthy to carry these things forward.

[BeauJangles]

2 minutes ago, other one said:

assuming all the children are trustworthy, I would give possession to the daughter for her son.   He is the firstborn with the name.

Should he not have children he should then give it to one of the twins who has children.   If the children are not trustworthy then he should have both pieces put in his casket if he is to be buried.   One must be worthy to carry these things forward.

I would agree with you on that. But, hearing about the opportunistic thefts in the mortuary business as Neighbor had once worked in, it might be a risk not worth chancing. Items such as jewelry and other keepsakes often do not end up going on with the deceased. 

[wingnut-]

5 hours ago, Omegaman Off Duty said:

To whom should family heirlooms be passed to, when they have traditional obligations or conditions attached?


Any ideas, suggestions, wisdom?

 

I would also say it should go to the daughter's son, provided that even should she marry the name of her son would remain intact.  Also, with the exception that if the son who is about to be married has a son of his own, that it would be transferred to him.

 

[dhchristian]

5 hours ago, Omegaman Off Duty said:

Any ideas, suggestions, wisdom?

Set up a trust with trustees to pass the heirloom down to whoever has the son to carry the family name. The trust controls this heirloom until an heir can be determined, the trustees consisting of responsible family members.

[Omegaman off duty]

Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies people!

[ayin jade]

On 11/4/2019 at 5:08 PM, Omegaman Off Duty said:

Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies people!

Im late to the party mega, but perhaps the father should talk to his son and daughter and ask them how they feel about the objects. Find out the value they place on it. The son, with a new marriage, might find himself losing it. The daughter might marry some day and have a name change, as well as the child's name. Neither one of them might care about the objects. 

Or if one of the unmarried and not likely to be married children have a liking for it and a sense of responsibility towards it, then the father can leave it to that child, with the understanding that it goes to a grandson.

[Neighbor]

On 11/2/2019 at 6:07 PM, BeauJangles said:

I would agree with you on that. But, hearing about the opportunistic thefts in the mortuary business as Neighbor had once worked in, it might be a risk not worth chancing. Items such as jewelry and other keepsakes often do not end up going on with the deceased. 

Ha, yes we once got scammed by a family in so called dispute over mom's pearl necklaces.  They were clever stuck us pretty good.  We changed our procedures and had families sign waivers releasing us of responsibility  after that one.

 

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Hi all,

Who should get what is a matter determined by God is it not? It is not always the one tradition and even law guides, but instead is  always what God has determined it to be. Some do deceive their own kin, but never do they deceive God.

In general though, receiving stuff is a pain, better to let it pass to someone else; with one's own blessings as a bonus, or better yet have no items that may become as though they are  idols or distractions that led to coveting and envy.

 

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Silliest one I ever got involved in was a dispute on ho was going to get  inscription placed on mom's bronze urn. The right to make the decision became a two year legal battle. Now how silly is that? It is often not about receiving but about projecting power over others.

Don't try to control from the grave! If anything is really to be given give it all while living don't wait just do it and be free of it. Take the heat for the decision while living. that way the potential heirs will not be at each others throat later. They can all just blame you now.

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Now that I am old, what I received that has blessed me most is not any of the oh so very wonderful gifts bestowed on me that I have indeed received, but is instead the knowledge of those gone, and the memory of them all regardless of whether they had  any inheritance items to pass on or not. Let all your heirs receive some good memories.