Are there any Pre-Wrath Believers here?

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

I know this is an old comment but I just have to bring up a couple things.

Are any who die today in Christ taken in the 'rapture'?

If so, then those killed by ISIS would be taken as well.

Why is it okay for them to suffer and die, but not whatever is defined as the 'church'?

Jesus suffered and died. Did His Father do that to Him?

Why do you blame Jesus for "bruise, beat up, maim "?

It is a faulty argument: the rapture is a ONE TIME event. God was not going to have a rapture every time a saint was about to be martyred. Jesus suffered IN OUR PLACE, willingly. 

[iamlamad]

On 12/19/2019 at 3:57 PM, OldCoot said:

Well, I didn't change my mind.  In my original post referring to this issue, I said literally.... Daniel 11 into Daniel 12.  You just took the  opportunity to haggle over a specific piece of Daniel 11.   That there is a dual reference is pretty  clear.  Many prophecies have dual fulfillments.  But it is abundantly  clear, Daniel 11 into Daniel 12 is talking of the end, and it ties into the 70th Week in Daniel 9:27 as expounded upon by Yeshua and Paul.

Good answer. 

[OldCoot]

On 11/24/2019 at 9:30 AM, Da Puppers said:

I would petition pre-tribbers to read Luke 17 where Jesus talks about the "days of the son of man" and how they,  plural,  are likened unto the days of Noah.   Briefly out says that on the day that Jesus is revealed,  HALF are taken. 

Petition worked!   

Luke 17:26-27 (NKJV Strong's) And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

Matthew 24:38-41 (NKJV Strong's) For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.

In both, regarding who is taken in the flood is the wicked and condemned.   And Yeshua says it will be the same at His coming.   So those being "taken" are those fit for destruction.  The condemned.

That is in keeping with Matthew 25 / Joel 3 where the nations are gathered, judged, and the condemned are taken away.  Likewise, how Jacob/Israel is gathered and judged and the condemned likewise are separated out.

And the passage of Matthew 24, from verse 15 onward it is targeted towards those who are living in Israel/Jerusalem, not the world.   Only those that need to worry about fleeing and whether or not it is on a Shabbat would only pertain to those living in Israel.  Not sure that anyone would need to flee Jerusalem when the AOD occurs, if they live in Malaysia.  And only in Israel is there laws regarding transportation and such on Shabbat.

No conflict with a pre-trib position.   The condemned as the scripture above shows, are not "raptured'.... pre, mid, pre-wrath, or post.  They are taken away for destruction.

Also, it is those who are living at that time.  Not a bit of reference to the dead, righteous or condemned.  Yet in many passages, both OT and NT, the righteous dead and living are gathered at the same time, just that the righteous dead get a head start according to Paul, but then, I think even he realized they have 6 more feet to go.  

Edited February 2, 2020 by OldCoot