GALATIANS 1:8 WHO IS ACCURSED ?

[BibleGuy]

2 minutes ago, Behold said:

There is no inconsistency between what He writes and what he teaches.

But Paul said that Christ sent him to "Preach the Gospel".

Galatian's 1:8, that you are talking about, is neither Paul preaching, nor is it the Gospel.

The "Gospel", is the preaching of the Cross, according to Paul, but not according to you.

 

Hi there!

 

"There is no inconsistency between what He writes and what he teaches."

Good!

 

"But Paul said that Christ sent him to "Preach the Gospel"."

Good!

 

"Galatian's 1:8, that you are talking about, is neither Paul preaching, nor is it the Gospel."

STOP pretending that Paul NEVER PREACHED the contents of Gal.1:8.

SURELY Paul preached for HUNDREDS even THOUSANDS of hours throughout his life....and surely, at some point, he PREACHED that the false Gospel (described in Gal.1:8) is a FALSE GOSPEL.

Now....be DONE with this trivial dispute!

Thanks.

 

"The "Gospel", is the preaching of the Cross, according to Paul, but not according to you."

Don't be silly.  I never said the GOSPEL excludes the CROSS.

 

Try again!

blessings...

 

[Behold]

15 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

 

Don't be silly.  I never said the GOSPEL excludes the CROSS.

 

What you did say, have said, and will say again...., is that the Cross and the Torah, are the 2 means, (2), that God accepts to redeem.   Cross + Torah

This is the devil's lie.  See its the devil who wants to change, alter, remove, water down, the Gospel, as you are doing, over and over.

What God said, is that  "there is ONE Mediator 1 (Savior) BETWEEN God (Himself) and Man".   That is ONE.......not 2.......JUST ONE......= Jesus

You say and teach, over and over, that its 2 ..>Its Christ and the Torah.

You are lying, as does your theology.  And by committing this lie, over and over, you are offending the Truth, who is Christ, and offending God.

I notice that you dont care.

You should.

[BibleGuy]

35 minutes ago, Behold said:

What you did say, have said, and will say again...., is that the Cross and the Torah, are the 2 means, (2), that God accepts to redeem.   Cross + Torah

This is the devil's lie.  See its the devil who wants to change, alter, remove, water down, the Gospel, as you are doing, over and over.

What God said, is that  "there is ONE Mediator 1 (Savior) BETWEEN God (Himself) and Man".   That is ONE.......not 2.......JUST ONE......= Jesus

You say and teach, over and over, that its 2 ..>Its Christ and the Torah.

You are lying, as does your theology.  And by committing this lie, over and over, you are offending the Truth, who is Christ, and offending God.

I notice that you dont care.

You should.

 

"What you did say, have said, and will say again...., is that the Cross and the Torah, are the 2 means, (2), that God accepts to redeem.   Cross + Torah"

We are REDEEMED by the BLOOD (Eph.1:7) of CHRIST who requires TORAH (Mt.5:19).

REDEMPTION by the BLOOD.

OBEDIENCE to Torah required by Christ.

BOTH.

It's just Bible.

Eph.1:7 and Mt.5:19 are BOTH true.

So BOTH ARE TRUE!

 

"This is the devil's lie."

No.  Eph.1:7 and Mt. 5:19 are BOTH true.

 

"See its the devil who wants to change, alter, remove, water down, the Gospel, as you are doing, over and over."

No.  I uphold EVERY Scripture.  

Try again!

 

"What God said, is that  "there is ONE Mediator 1 (Savior) BETWEEN God (Himself) and Man".   That is ONE.......not 2.......JUST ONE......= Jesus"

Good!

And that ONE JESUS requires TORAH (Mt.5:19).

So keep that in mind!

 

"You say and teach, over and over, that its 2 ..>Its Christ and the Torah."

What did JESUS say? (hint:  Matthew 5:19!!!)

 

"You are lying, as does your theology.  "

Rather, Torah is TRUTH (Ps.119;142)....so OBEY IT....or suffer the consequences....Rom.2:8;Mt.5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42.

 

 

" And by committing this lie, over and over, you are offending the Truth, who is Christ, and offending God."

Actually, Torah is TRUTH (Ps.119:142), not a lie.

We must obey the TRUTH or suffer the consequences (Rom.2:8).

Christ is the TRUTH (Jn.14:6) who requires TORAH.

God commands Torah (Dt.1:3;5:27-33).  Don't offend God!  OBEY Him! (Ac.5:32)

 

Ok....try again!  (I know it takes awhile to wrestle yourself out of incorrect theological systems....so try again!  You'll get it if you seek....Mt.7:7)

 

blessings...

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by BibleGuy
typo

[Willa]

2 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

Thanks!

And that SAME PAUL requires ALL TORAH (2Ti.3:16).  Agreed?

blessings...

 

1Ti 1:9  knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for theungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10  for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,

[BibleGuy]

Just now, Willa said:

1Ti 1:9  knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for theungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1Ti 1:10  for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,

And you ignored my question...

I'll try again!

Does Paul require ALL SCRIPTURE (thus including TORAH) to CORRECT and TRAIN and REBUKE you?  (Hint: 2Ti.3:16)

Hopefully you can answer my question this time!

 

thanks!

 

[Alive]

9 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

And you ignored my question...

I'll try again!

Does Paul require ALL SCRIPTURE (thus including TORAH) to CORRECT and TRAIN and REBUKE you?  (Hint: 2Ti.3:16)

Hopefully you can answer my question this time!

 

thanks!

 

2Tim. 3:16   All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ¹⁷ that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

You twist this to meet your wrong doctrine. Its not difficult nor is it clever.

This doesn't say what you say that it does. Nowhere does Paul say that law obeying is a requisite of salvation.

Rather he says throughout his teaching just the opposite.

Imagine if your tenacity and energy was focused on teaching the Gospel of Grace alone for salvation.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Alive

[Mal'ak]

21 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

Hi there!

Plenty of good points there, thank you!

 

"Where the Bibleguy is mislead is here in Colossians, we are told to obey the Commandments, but the Torah was filled with ordinances.  "

Col. 2 does NOT blot out TORAH ORDINANCES....rather, it blots out the "χειρόγραφον", that is, it blots out our CERTIFICATE OF DEBT.  TORAH is not a "χειρόγραφον".

 

 

Not sure the point in using original languages to separate, New Testament was written in Greek while the Old Testament in Hebrew, so of course they would have different words.  Perhaps Jews of today translated the New Testament into Hebrew and used their own words, but if so then most likely they purposely used a different word so they could keep the Torah and purposely lied in their translation for their flesh pride in their heritage of the Torah.

 

Ordinance in Old Testament Lev is מִשְׁמֶרֶת which means "obligation" or "service", while in Col it is "δόγμα"  which means "a law (civil, ceremonial)".

 

Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

 

Now here in Romans 13 where it gets confusing, "ordinances" here in Romans is not Dogma from Col, but "διαταγή/diatagē" which comes from "διατάσσω/diatassō" which means "appoint, command".  The New Testament uses the word ordinances in place of commandments and literal ordinances interchangeably, so unless you look up each word in the original Greek you won't know what the Word of God is trying to say. As we can see from Lev and Col, ordinances were a "service" and "ceremonial law", which is why we are told "Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;".  All the ceremonial laws of waiting 3 days after touching a dead body to go to the Temple, is no longer needed.

 

6 hours ago, Alive said:

Anyone who preaches something besides salvation through grace with nothing else added to adulterate it.

The reason this is so important is because anything else insults the work of the Father In Christ on the cross and puts folks back under the principle of law and death, when the Father spent so much to move us from that footing to a new footing.

A heavy price was paid in order to provide a 'Gift'--freely given.

 

16 hours ago, Willa said:

Gal 2:16  knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Gal 2:21  I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."  

People who tried to earn their righteousness by being good or keeping the law and who taught others to do that were those who were accursed.   Many cults get their teaching from false doctrine they claim had come from angels.

 

16 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

“The Just shall live by FAITH”

 

Matthew 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Matthew 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Matthew 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

You are taking things out of context, we hear from Jesus himself that we are indeed given the free gift of faith which is our "talent", but if we do not return our faith with "usury" to Jesus he will take our faith away.  Those that have not proven their faith during this life, Jesus will "cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness".  I find it odd that all these Christians can quote scripture that can point out their beliefs, but some how always forget or ignore every other scripture that shows the context. As Jesus said when satan tried to use scripture out of context to deceive him, "Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." So either Jesus is a liar when he says you need to return "usury" of your faith to him or you will be "cast...into outer darkness", or you are just not living by the entire Word of God but cherry picking to fit your beliefs.  Now if you wish to call Jesus a liar so you can continue in your traditions of man, you are welcome too, you have free will.

 

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Matthew 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

Here again the way to Heaven by Jesus himself, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments". Then when the man said he keeps them, Jesus added "if thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast...and come and follow me".  This really has two meanings at once, but it is the union between the Old Testament and New Testament, we need to obey the commandments and be righteous but we also need to give up this life and live spiritually first. As we see in "Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it."  We must not live for this life and make this our home, we must live for God first and foremost.  Those that live for this life can not enter Heaven, because they are not seeking to be Christ-like.  This goes to a more in depth version with "1 Corinthians 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: 33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife."  We are told it is better not to get married, not to have kids, because you need to focus on them and their flesh needs instead of living totally for God.  This is not required and most can not handle living as monks, but goes to the point of what Jesus was talking about, that we need to forsake all the things of this life that distract us from being more Christ-like.  If it was just "grace" and "faith" only, why would you need to forsake marriage or an active flesh life just to continue in a free gift you do not need to do anything for? Again Jesus says to keep the commandments, but welcome to call him a liar if you wish.

 

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

In closing, as James said "faith, if it hath not works, is dead".  The works is proving our faith by following the commandments and doing works. We are told when Jesus returns and when the Father sets up the White Throne of Judgement, everyone will be rewarded "according to his works".  For the final time as we are judged by our works, you can call Jesus a liar if you wish.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Mal'ak

[BibleGuy]

14 minutes ago, Alive said:

2Tim. 3:16   All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, ¹⁷ that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

You twist this to meet your wrong doctrine. Its not difficult nor is it clever.

This doesn't say what you say that it does. Nowhere does Paul say that law obeying is a requisite of salvation.

Rather he says throughout his teaching just the opposite.

Imagine if your tenacity and energy was focused on teaching the Gospel of Grace alone for salvation.

"You twist this to meet your wrong doctrine. "

Rather, 2Ti.3:16 requires that ALL SCRIPTURE (thus including TORAH!) must REBUKE and CORRECT and TRAIN and TEACH your behavior in righteousness.

Jesus agrees: you must DO Torah-obedient righteousness GREATER than that of the Pharisees (Mt.5:20), or else you will NOT inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20).

 

"Nowhere does Paul say that law obeying is a requisite of salvation."

True!  Law-obeying is a SUFFICIENT CONDITION (Lk.10:25-28)....not a NECESSARY condition (Ac.15:1,11) for obtaining salvation.

AND!

Paul says that we remain saved IF WE HOLD FAST TO THE WORD HE PREACHES (1Cor.15:1-4) which is FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

Jesus says we are His disciples IF WE CONTINUE IN HIS WORD (Jn.8:31) which includes TORAH (Mt.5:19).

 

"Imagine if your tenacity and energy was focused on teaching the Gospel of Grace alone for salvation."

Who said grace alone?

Justification is by LAW (Rom.2:13) + WORKS (Jas.2:24) + FAITH (Rom.5:1) + GRACE (Rom.3:24) + THE BLOOD (Rom.5:9) + the SPIRIT (1Cor.6:11) + the Name of Christ (1Cor.6:11).

ALL.

I'm the Bible Guy.

STOP the picking-and-choosing.

ALL Bible is true.

 

AND!

Grace is given to the humble (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34).  HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3;Ex.33:13).  So OBEY!

 

blessings...

 

[Alive]

@Mal'ak

You are confusing things. Its very common and a purely scholarly mindset often does this. Trying to work out seemingly disparate scripture and reconciling them. Rightly dividing with the help of the Holy Spirit is required to arrive at Truth.

Firstly, you have to understand that Jesus was an OT prophet and He was addressing Jews and speaking in terms that they understand being under Moses, but He hints of something greater.

That something greater is what the Holy Spirit began to teach after Pentecost when He unveiled the reality of what the Father accomplished in Christ with the cross and blood.

Otherwise--there is a great deal of conflict between some of the words of Christ and what His apostles taught after Pentecost.

Recall for a moment what Luke said to Theophilus.

Acts 1:1   The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, ² until the day in which He was taken up,

Jesus continued to teach after Pentecost and He unveiled the Truth.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Alive

[Willa]

35 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

And you ignored my question...

I'll try again!

Does Paul require ALL SCRIPTURE (thus including TORAH) to CORRECT and TRAIN and REBUKE you?  (Hint: 2Ti.3:16)

Hopefully you can answer my question this time!

 

thanks!

 

The Holy Spirit used the law to convict me of sin, righteousness and judgement prior to my being born again when I was still a habitual sinner.  That is when it was used lawfully.  Righteousness does not come by the law but by faith in the blood of Christ and in His resurrection.  In my mind I answered you truthfully and did not ignore your question.  I felt that your questions were leading and you were trying to draw an answer out of me that would have been not using the law lawfully.  My name is written in the Lamb's book of life so I am not judged in the Great White Throne Judgement.  I have passed from death into life.  My works will be judged as to any future rewards but my sin was cast as far as the east is from the west, paid for on the cross.  I am no longer under the law in regards to righteousness.  Moreover, I walk in the Spirit so I am no longer under the Law.  

Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.