I'm struggeling to accept hell

[JTC]

On 12/13/2019 at 8:58 PM, Ineedhugs said:

I want to be a perfect Christian

Hi Again, Ineedhugs,

   I can see already that your Christian walk will be a bumpy one. This is based on only 2 of your posts today. Please listen to me, perfection may or may not happen for you but the desire for it is more important than achieving it.

   Secondly, you better realize that the Bible is true and reliable in all that it says about morality and salvation but it probably isn't 100% accurate about some other things. When I was a new believer the statement I just made would have floored my faith but not anymore. The problem is it took me 40 yrs to get here and it would have been a little easier if there weren't so many false and/or silly ideas going around. I read 1 or 2 extra Biblical works that proved to me that the idea of hell being a non consuming fire is a popular idea that goes way back. But is it absolutely true, does it matter? I tell you no, it doesn't matter. Suppose hell is instead of a painful fire an eternal separation from God? I really wanted to know and in the last 10 yrs God let me find out. I should have taken someone else's word for it. Right now separation from God probably wouldn't hurt you that much because you're new. But wait 30 yrs from now when you get used to the presence of God in your life. You actually will become aware of God and His presence in your life. I did and you will too. It was then my own fault that God had to turn away from me for about 6 months. I tell you the truth, I have never felt so alone like I did then. I was like you, asking questions on every little thing. I thought if 1 word of the Bible was false then the whole thing was wrong. No this is not true. I was taught that silly idea and it's a false idea. As your faith grows you will know God is real and you will learn all the details only after you leave earth.

I hope I this helped you.

[Guest]

You should calm yourself. If you accept Jesus as Saviour, you do not need to worry about hell. You will not go there. Jesus died on the cross so that we are forgiven. That is the massive gift! 

We can never be perfect. When as Christians we sin, we pray to ask to be guided to do God's will. We will never go to hell if we pray to Jesus Christ. 

Re-read the gospels and new testament. Deepen your understanding. Sleep easy, hell has nothing to do with you and i. It is unrepentant sinners who reject Christ who can be fearful with good reason. 

 

[Coliseum]

1 hour ago, DustyRoad said:

Thanks for sharing, @turtletwo. I've been taken aback by the fervor in which some approach a subject that, quite frankly, is one I've never had the opportunity to consider before. One would think that in light of all these dire warnings, I was in peril because I thought people were destroyed by the lake of fire instead of suffering eternally in it. I had no idea that my salvation is in jeopardy because I have incomplete thoughts and beliefs regarding the nature of hell and the lake of fire...

That's the impression a post like yours has upon me. We're saved by Jesus Christ but unless we understand hell properly then we're in danger of going there. In any case, the scriptures convince me that the punishment is eternal. 

I am reminded of Matt 10:28 "Do not worry about those who can kill the body but who cannot kill the soul; rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Hell."

Jesus spoke about Hell more than anything else because he took it. He hated it because he knew the dangers of it. He warns those who do not know him and encourages us who do. It is interesting when Jesus was with Martha. Jesus said: John 11:21 "Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died." A little while later, Mary saw him and said those very identical words. But his reaction to both were very different. When Martha answered concerning her brother, "John 11:24-26 (NIV)
"I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
²⁵  Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;
²⁶  and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Here Jesus was upset (I am the resurrection---Do you believe this?)---knowing how hard it was for many to believe him. But when Mary repeated Martha's exact words, Jesus saw her weeping, and was troubled in his spirit, asking, Where have you laid him"? And "Jesus wept." Jesus had a whole other reaction. He does not want any to perish

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Coliseum

[BeauJangles]

  On 12/14/2019 at 6:39 PM, BeauJangles said:

Scanned through it briefly, to see it was a complete counterfeit of the word of God. Totally opposite even in the way it's written. Poorly composed also.  

Behold: Yes.

Behold: If it was the "original", then it was written by Anton Lavey.

BeauJangles: That's the one that I thumbed though. 

Behold: He founded the "church of satan".

BeauJangles: He did. His bald and tattooed head shines brightly on a photo of him in front of this 'church' in San Francisco. 

Behold: I think he practiced most of his occult religion in California, as that is where his Church exists.

BeauJangles: It was all complete mockery. Prior to being a high priest for Satan, he was a circus barker and a charleton. 

Behold: If you were ever a fan of a music group  named "The Eagles".   They were pretty popular in the '70s.  "country rock" band.

BeauJangles: Their sound was too commercial for my taste, but they were a pretty good band during the Joe Walsh years. 

Behold: They released their best selling album......"Hotel California"... and if you open the album, you see the group standing in the foyer of this church, and on the balcony above them,  is Anton Lavey.

BeauJangles: Popular AM radio played this tune every morning while going to work. I never got to see the inside cover to this LP, because no one I knew had a copy of it. I'll look it up online. Thanks for the info.   

[frienduff thaylorde]

58 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

Thanks for sharing, @turtletwo. I've been taken aback by the fervor in which some approach a subject that, quite frankly, is one I've never had the opportunity to consider before. One would think that in light of all these dire warnings, I was in peril because I thought people were destroyed by the lake of fire instead of suffering eternally in it. I had no idea that my salvation is in jeopardy because I have incomplete thoughts and beliefs regarding the nature of hell and the lake of fire...

That's the impression a post like yours has upon me. We're saved by Jesus Christ but unless we understand hell properly then we're in danger of going there. In any case, the scriptures convince me that the punishment is eternal. 

Was it how dire and serious the scriptures themselves are .    or was it because folks who love JESUS take them very serious .  

Lambs don't let lambs add too or take from that book .    WHY ,    read the part where The HOLY ONE HIMSELF says , IF YE add to or take from .

Feelings might get hurt ,  but better feelings than a soul tormented .    Scripture must be taken very serious and loved very much too .  

[frienduff thaylorde]

I got  a trivia question .

Who are we to love more than sons or daughters , wives or husbands , or anything .

JESUS CHRIST of course .

SO the question is  , can JESUS be separated from HIS SAYINGS .   Can WE  LOVE JESUS yet twist truth .

And oooops ,  here comes the answer .   NO .  

[frienduff thaylorde]

11 hours ago, turtletwo said:

The scriptures speak for themselves. We need to take them at face value. It is not up to private interpretation. We aren't allowed to pick and choose according to our feelings. It is natural to be repelled by the thought of eternal torment. But we have to trust that God knows what He is doing.

He went through a LOT (beyond our limited comprehension to fully grasp) to bring us the wonderful, free gift of Salvation. If we reject it...whose fault is that? It is getting into dangerous territory to point the finger at God about the way He chooses to do things. Job tried that approach and it didn't work.

Likewise, to deny the truth of scripture (finding ways around it) amounts to mere mind-science. It won't change a thing in the end. It is wrong to try to 're-invent God' to someone we feel more comfortable with just because our finite minds have trouble grasping humans being in the Lake of Fire. Yet the scriptures bear it out-

To those who are close-minded, please do reconsider. To those who are still 'on the fence' please read these verses prayerfully and ask God's Spirit to guide you into all truth. I post this out of love. I hope it will be received as such.

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."(Matthew 13:41-42)

"And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:50)

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:46)

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

"And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11)

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15)

You know , when I read your post and response ,  I get the feeling ,  YOU REALLY LOVE JESUS and are doing all to ensure no one ever believes a dangerous lie .

But that is me .    

Folks ,    lets strap on our full grown armour and get busy doing all to point to JESUS and reminding all , of all things HE both said and taught .

WONDERFUL JOB SISTER .     Wonderful .  

[Alive]

I am not here to argue the nature of hell and the final fate of those not in Christ in this age, but I do believe there is enough scripture reference that honest hearts can consider the issue. I arrived at this conviction only several years ago. I won't continue pushing my conviction at this point.

Let me rather ask a question.

Do you believe that fear of hell saves sinners? If so, how does that work?

[frienduff thaylorde]

12 minutes ago, Alive said:

I am not here to argue the nature of hell and the final fate of those not in Christ in this age, but I do believe there is enough scripture reference that honest hearts can consider the issue. I arrived at this conviction only several years ago. I won't continue pushing my conviction at this point.

Let me rather ask a question.

Do you believe that fear of hell saves sinners? If so, how does that work?

If paul preached the resurrection of the just and the unjust to put fear into souls and then made sure  to point to JESUS as the only means to attain the resurrection of the just .

ME THINKS , ME KNOWS we should do so too .

Let me just say ,  many folks seem to be running to a jesus

but what JESUS is it .

IF we coming to have the best life now , or inclusive life , or the easy life ,  rest assured the conversion IS NOT REAL .

A soul needs to know ,  JESUS is the ONLY SAVOIR and what do ye suppose he came to save us from .

If all men have sinned and all fallen short ,   THEN what do ye suppose the end is .    JESUS came to save us from what we earned  , DEATH and the second death .

Jesus came to save us from THE WRATH OF GOD .

If folks are coming to JESUS , cause one told them < OH come on , come sit in my church and we can hear my preach tell ya , why ya need JESUS .

And then that so called pastor gets up and starts talking about YA BEST LIFE NOW , or MONEY ,  or easy life ,     REST assured many sure will run to that JESUS

only problem is ,  IT WONT BE THE BIBLCAL ONE .     If we coming to JESUS For our best life now olstein , or prospierty , or to have a promotion on a job ,

RIGHT ,   that aint no true conversion .  I say we return to preaching the gospel the way JESUS DID and the apostels did .

Sure its gonna offend and specially so many today ,  oh dear so many today would reject the true version of the gospel of JESUS ,  for so too would many in even churches .

BUT ,  good news ,  at least some would hear , repent and  be saved .

[Dennis1209]

12 hours ago, turtletwo said:

The scriptures speak for themselves. We need to take them at face value. It is not up to private interpretation. We aren't allowed to pick and choose according to our feelings. It is natural to be repelled by the thought of eternal torment. But we have to trust that God knows what He is doing.

He went through a LOT (beyond our limited comprehension to fully grasp) to bring us the wonderful, free gift of Salvation. If we reject it...whose fault is that? It is getting into dangerous territory to point the finger at God about the way He chooses to do things. Job tried that approach and it didn't work.

Likewise, to deny the truth of scripture (finding ways around it) amounts to mere mind-science. It won't change a thing in the end. It is wrong to try to 're-invent God' to someone we feel more comfortable with just because our finite minds have trouble grasping humans being in the Lake of Fire. Yet the scriptures bear it out-

To those who are close-minded, please do reconsider. To those who are still 'on the fence' please read these verses prayerfully and ask God's Spirit to guide you into all truth. I post this out of love. I hope it will be received as such.

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."(Matthew 13:41-42)

"And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:50)

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matthew 25:46)

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

"And the smoke of their torment ascends up forever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11)

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15)

But turtletwo, but, but, but I don't see anything about annihilation from existence, a reverse ex nihilo if you will, only everlasting punishment?