Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[kenny2212]

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

⁵ For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

⁶ And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

⁷ For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

⁸ All these are the beginning of sorrows.

⁹ Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

¹⁰ And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

¹¹ And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

¹² And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

¹³ But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Verse 14 - ¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Above is one of the endings in this passage of Matthew 24. Christ is rumoured to have come in this passage's sequence of events in verses 4 and 5. Why does Jesus talk about the end coming before talking about the abomination of desolation? Because an end does come before the aod. The end of the Church age. The other ending is the ending of the aod.

Verse 22 - ²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 

The aod days are shortened by the second coming of Jesus.

Verse 23-28 - 

²³ Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

²⁴ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

²⁵ Behold, I have told you before.

²⁶ Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

²⁷ For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

²⁸ For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

It does not matter that Jesus is talking about his coming after talking about the aod. He's just reiterating what he said in verses 4 and 5. 

Verses 29-31 - 

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Contrasting what Jesus said in verses 23 to 26, Jesus now explains his true coming...

God bless us all!

[Diaste]

Nope.

The main events in Matt 24 reads thus:

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 

For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 

If those days had not been cut short, (Days of GT are cut short) nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call,

they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

This is the only gathering explicitly stated in Scripture. It's only AFTER the A of D and great tribulation. There isn't one before this. Only one. No matter how hard you try unjustified rationalization, fear based and disobedient, will never change that fact. 

Best get ready. The beast comes first and he's coming for us. Isn't it great? The most powerful enemy ever to tread the earth; arrayed to battle an unarmed opponent, and yet our victory is already won. Is there anything more glorious?

[dhchristian]

30 minutes ago, kenny2212 said:

Verse 14 - ¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Above is one of the endings in this passage of Matthew 24. Christ is rumoured to have come in this passage's sequence of events in verses 4 and 5. Why does Jesus talk about the end coming before talking about the abomination of desolation? Because an end does come before the aod. The end of the Church age. The other ending is the ending of the aod.

Verse 22 - ²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 

The aod days are shortened by the second coming of Jesus.

The way I interpret this is the AoD marks the beginning of the end. To me there is an action known as the Abomination of Desolation, when the beast declares Himself God in the Temple, and there is a time of desolations that lasts 3.5 years at the beginning of the final week, which is the great tribulation. All those things before verse 15 happen before this final week begins, an they are the birth pangs as Jesus clearly states them to be. The time of Great tribulation is the time when the Baby is being birthed.

[kenny2212]

51 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Nope.

The main events in Matt 24 reads thus:

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 

For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 

If those days had not been cut short, (Days of GT are cut short) nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call,

they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

This is the only gathering explicitly stated in Scripture. It's only AFTER the A of D and great tribulation. There isn't one before this. Only one. No matter how hard you try unjustified rationalization, fear based and disobedient, will never change that fact. 

Best get ready. The beast comes first and he's coming for us. Isn't it great? The most powerful enemy ever to tread the earth; arrayed to battle an unarmed opponent, and yet our victory is already won. Is there anything more glorious?

Why then didn't Jesus lay everything out chronologically? I'm sure you agree he could have. Why did he talk about an end before talking about the aod? I'm not making anything up, it's right there in the bible. 

[OldCoot]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

This is the only gathering explicitly stated in Scripture. It's only AFTER the A of D and great tribulation.

That could be assumed to be true if one throws out the OT.   Isaiah is pretty clear that the righteous dead and living are gathered and hidden in their chambers (see John 14:2-3) BEFORE the calamities come upon the earth.  

All of Isaiah 26 talks of this.  Isaiah 26:2 ties into Revelation 4:1.

Isaiah 26:17 ties into Jeremiah 30:6-7 and David in Psalms 27:5 affirms the same.  And Zephaniah 2:1-3 reiterates this also, adding that it will happen BEFORE the decree is issued, which could be the affirmation of the covenant of Daniel 9:27.

And Isaiah 26:19-21 is pretty clear that the righteous, including righteous dead, are taken in accordance with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-54.  

And 2 Thessalonians 2, the gathering is before the man of sin / son of perdition is revealed.  Paul had to remind them of that because a forged letter had been circulating that had the Thessalonians concerned they were in the day of Lord period.  If they were fearful, it must mean that they felt they had missed something.   Paul reminds them that "that day" would not happen unless the departure happen first and then the man of sin / son of perdition would be revealed.   He amplified it a few verses later stating that the one who restrains will be taken out of the way then the "lawless one" would be revealed.

And what Paul wrote to those Thessalonians  conforms to what David and Zephaniah said on the issue.

The 'elect' being gathered at the end does not mean the church.  The Lord clearly says that Jacob/Israel is His elect in Isaiah 45:4.   Paul also states in Romans 11 that the gifts and calling of God is irrevocable.  And the gathering of the elect of Jacob/Israel ties into Ezekiel 20.   

Don't confuse election with justification.  Jacob/Israel is elect because of the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, which does not mean they are all justified in Messiah though they are all elect.    The redeemed are also elect because of their justification in Messiah, but that doesn't mean the redeemed are literal Jacob/Israel.  As it is literal Jacob/Israel (Judah and Israel) that caused Yeshua to return to His place after He came the first time and it will be literal Jacob / Israel that will have to admit that rejection and turn to the Lord and petition for His return... BEFORE He will return.  Hosea 5:14-15 and Matthew 23:37-39.

Edited February 8, 2020 by OldCoot

[Alive]

26 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

That could be assumed to be true if one throws out the OT.   Isaiah is pretty clear that the righteous dead and living are gathered and hidden in their chambers (see John 14:2-3) BEFORE the calamities come upon the earth.  

All of Isaiah 26 talks of this.  Isaiah 26:2 ties into Revelation 4:1.

Isaiah 26:17 ties into Jeremiah 30:6-7 and David in Psalms 27:5 affirms the same.  And Zephaniah 2:1-3 reiterates this also, adding that it will happen BEFORE the decree is issued, which could be the affirmation of the covenant of Daniel 9:27.

And Isaiah 26:19-21 is pretty clear that the righteous, including righteous dead, are taken in accordance with 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-54.  

And 2 Thessalonians 2, the gathering is before the man of sin / son of perdition is revealed.  Paul had to remind them of that because a forged letter had been circulating that had the Thessalonians concerned they were in the day of Lord period.  If they were fearful, it must mean that they felt they had missed something.   Paul reminds them that "that day" would not happen unless the departure happen first and then the man of sin / son of perdition would be revealed.   He amplified it a few verses later stating that the one who restrains will be taken out of the way then the "lawless one" would be revealed.

And what Paul wrote to those Thessalonians  conforms to what David and Zephaniah said on the issue.

The 'elect' being gathered at the end does not mean the church.  The Lord clearly says that Jacob/Israel is His elect in Isaiah 45:4.   Paul also states in Romans 11 that the gifts and calling of God is irrevocable.  And the gathering of the elect of Jacob/Israel ties into Ezekiel 20.   

Don't confuse election with justification.  Jacob/Israel is elect because of the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, which does not mean they are all justified in Messiah though they are all elect.    The redeemed are also elect because of their justification in Messiah, but that doesn't mean the redeemed are literal Jacob/Israel.  As it is literal Jacob/Israel (Judah and Israel) that caused Yeshua to return to His place after He came the first time and it will be literal Jacob / Israel that will have to admit that rejection and turn to the Lord and petition for His return... BEFORE He will return.  Hosea 5:14-15 and Matthew 23:37-39.

@OldCootYour clarity and understanding is a blessing. There are prophetic issues that are hard to figure, but not all and its my opinion that you do a bang up job of pointing out the things that are.

[missmuffet]

The opening section of Matthew 24 verses 1-14 itemizes general signs, events, and situations which mark the progress of the age and, with growing intensity, indicate that the end of age is approaching.Because these events have happened throughout the present age, these signs do not constitute a direct answer to the question of "the sign" of the coming of the Lord.  

[Revelation Man]

23 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

Verse 14 - ¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Above is one of the endings in this passage of Matthew 24. Christ is rumoured to have come in this passage's sequence of events in verses 4 and 5. Why does Jesus talk about the end coming before talking about the abomination of desolation? Because an end does come before the aod. The end of the Church age. The other ending is the ending of the aod.

Jesus indeed warns his Disciples not to be tricked into thinking the 70 AD event is the END TIME EVENT, because its not, if the Jews had accepted Christ it could have been the 70th week, but they rejected Jesus and the Prophecy says that Israel must accept their Messiah before the 70th week Judgment can come to pass. So God forsook Israel for nigh 2000 years {God saw Israel as DEAD MEN'S BONES See Ezekiel 37} and when he revives them {1948} he will Breath life back into them during the 70th week, NOT BEFORE but during the 70th week. {see Zechariah 12:10, see Zechariah 13:8-9}.

The Pharisees and Jews of their day were not dumb, they were learned men who couldn't see Gods ways because of their book learning, they thought they knew it all, thus they indeed understood Rome was the Fourth Beast, and thus when they saw the 70 AD event was inevitable they tried to FORCE the Political Messiah whom they saw as a Warrior Savior not the Son of God SALVATION for our sins !! So that is why Jesus said this....John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

So they put forth "Messiahs" and Jesus warned the Disciples, THE END IS NOT YET !! So he was warning them, its not me, they have come in their own name, so stay away, the end is by and by.......then Jesus tells the Jews that after the Gospel is preached unto ALL THE WORLD, the END {70TH Week} will indeed come, then he points toward what will happen during the 70th week via the AoD, the tribulation, the Anti-Christ and False Prophet etc. etc. but he doesn't give a hint in verse 14 about the Rapture, even though it happens there, he hints at the Rapture in verses 36-51 in answering the questions of the sign of his coming....he answers the END OF THE AGE question in verses 29-31 where he speaks about the Second Coming which happens with the Church. The Rapture as seen in verses 36-51 of course is to take the Church with him, two different events.

23 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

Verse 22 - ²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 

The aod days are shortened by the second coming of Jesus.

Nothing is shortened except the original PLAN SHORTENS the A.C. life and rule on earth to 42 months, the ORIGINAL PLAN was 7 years for the 70th week and 42 months of Beast rule. So Jesus is just saying he will shorten the troubles the Beast/A.C. is causing by coming back at the end of the 70th week. If he did not return at the end of the 70th week, and thus cut the troubles to 3.5 years, there would no life on earth be saved at all. So yes, Jesus cuts the BEASTS LIFE SHORT and thus saves mankind from this evil tyrant. BUT.....the 7 year plan goes on as planed, God doesn't have to change His plans. Jesus just says his Second Coming SHORTENS what WOULD HAVE BEEN !! If his Second Coming had not been PLANNED in such a way. In other words that is why God didn't plan 10 years !! People misread so many scriptures then we confuse others. Satan never stops working, that's for sure.

23 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

Contrasting what Jesus said in verses 23 to 26, Jesus now explains his true coming...

 

This it the Second Coming with the Church........he takes the Church in verses 36-51, which actually happens after verse 14.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Revelation Man

[kenny2212]

2 hours ago, Cletus said:

He did.  read the passage carefully

How did he? Please explain

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, kenny2212 said:

Why then didn't Jesus lay everything out chronologically? I'm sure you agree he could have. Why did he talk about an end before talking about the aod? I'm not making anything up, it's right there in the bible. 

He did. He didn't say there was an end early in the discourse. He said, "These things must happen, but the end is still to come."

Jesus was not rumoured to arrive, "For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." These are false messiahs of which we have had a great many over the years. I once saw a list of at least a hundred who either claimed to be Jesus Christ in the flesh or sent by Him for a special mission.

There is no escaping the explicit order of events:

 1) when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,

2) at that time there will be great tribulation, 

3) Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

4) The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

5) At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, 

5a) They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

5b) And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call,

5c) and they will gather His elect from the four winds, 

This discourse is the only gathering of the elect in scripture and it comes after the A of D and GT. 

The Victory in Christ is already won in every way. 

“All this I have told you so that you will not fall away. They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God. They will do such things because they have not known the Father or me. I have told you this, so that when their time comes you will remember that I warned you about them. I did not tell you this from the beginning because I was with you, but now I am going to him who sent me. None of you asks me, ‘Where are you going?’ Rather, you are filled with grief because I have said these things.But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”