Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Okay, now you've proved that you don't know what you're talking about. The words here for "without form and void" are "tohuw vaaVohuw." "Tohuw" does NOT mean "was not there yet." It means it was without oganization! "Bohuw" (at the beginning of a word, it's a bet; in the middle of the word without a dot, it's a vet) also does NOT mean "was not there yet." It means it was EMPTY of life!

Which means EXACTLY what I stated..........If the earth is not Organized that means its fabric has not yet formed, and its an EMPTY SPACE.  You are fighting a losing battle. You will understand exactly how old the Universe was/is when you get to Heaven. I am going to spread the truth now however so as not to push people away fro m the truths of God. People already to wrong by celebrating Santa Clause, thereby our kids think Jesus is just another "WHITE LIE" when they get to college and learn things these college professors teach them, you see, they give them half truths of Satan, they show them facts and tell them {in an off handed manner} that Christians believe the earth is 6000 years old, you can't believe anything your folks tell you man !! Which is why they need to be told the truth, so they have a shot at understanding, they can say "HEY.....I know the universe is 13.7 billion years old, but God Created it over 13.7 billion years". 

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Again, you don't know what you're talking about. FIRST, know this: Science is "OBSERVATION and EXPERIMENTATION!" You can't do that with Evolution or with Creation. These are PHILOSOPHIES, not "science!" Evolution is, strictly speaking, a HUMANISTIC PHILOSOPHY. No human being was present to see any of the supposed evolving! These are ASSUMPTIONS that "planets are formed around a ball of gases" and that "stars are created by nebulae!" They can't say (or WON'T say), "God did it"; so, they make guesses that they THINK are "plausible." To the contrary, spinning gases do not have the gravitational force needed to "pull themselves together" and congeal into stars or planets. Their inertia pulls them apart more than the gravity pulls them together! It's like the atmosphere at the extremes of the sky. The molecules cannot cohere and fly apart in the rarified atmosphere, and their gravitational attraction to each other or even to the massive earth below is not enough to keep them together or bring them down to earth!

Actually we  an see back through time with our modern telescopes to see what happened millions of years ago, didn't you know that ? The Hubble Space Telescope can see objects even more distant than your eyes can. When it takes a picture of a galaxy 100 million light years away, we are seeing the galaxy as it looked 100 million years ago.

So we can see the Galaxies forming in some instances. Galaxies still form, the Universe is expanding.

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

That's sort of true; however, your wording was a bit problematic: First, we don't have a "dome." We have an atmosphere that is thicker at the bottom and thins out at the top. We speak of a column of atmospheric pressure above a square unit of area, like "pounds per square inch" or "psi." Refraction of the light is caused by light being absorbed by molecules in the air and then re-emitted at a different frequency. 

 

Scientist refer to it as a biospheric dome, of course its not a real dome per se, its used in a metaphorical way, the gravity creates and atmospheric dome.

Call it what you may, I will use this terminology. 

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

I am a 56-year Christian trying to wrap my head around the sheer magnitude of the Creative Ability of God Almighty! What God tells us in His Word trumps any theory by mankind. And, man-made "science" (falsely so-called) is in error if it disagrees with God's Word. One does NOT KNOW that "the universe has to be over 6000 years old!"

We see light because God created LIGHT! Evolutionists ASSUME that the light comes from sources like stars so many "millions of light years away" because of red and blue shifts to the light spectrum, assuming that the shifts come from the Doplar Effect on the light waves! We DON'T really "know this to be true"; scientists just IMAGINE it to be true. While it is true for sound waves, we don't have definitive proof that it is also true for light waves.

If we take measurements of relatively closer objects using parallax, THAT can be discovered true because it follows mathematical calculations from observable facts, using geometry and trigonometry.

For instance, we can measure the distance to certain stars or phenomena by viewing them against the relatively static background stars at one time of the year and then again six months later. By taking the angle difference and the fact that the earth is approximately 93,000,000 miles (150,000,000 km) away from the sun on the ecliptic plane (for a diameter of approximately 186,000,000 miles or 300,000,000 km), we can calculate the distance from the earth to the relatively close star or phenomenon. Multiple viewings, each six months from the last, will tell us if the object is truly moving, relative to our position.

I don't worry about Evolutionists, they are wring, but so are you guys. Think about it, if you are wrong, and you are, then you are doing what they are doing on the other extreme. They cause people to not follow God because they have been deceived and thus they in turn deceive others. You can't reach those they have deceived because they can't buy your 6000 years {what they see as fairy tale} creation story. Our job is to reach people by using truth. If you get to heaven {and this will happen} and you find out the Universe is actually 13.7 billion years old, then how will you feel ? By the way, that WMAP Map actually shows the Universe as mapped out by Microwaves, its a REAL PICTURE !! We have a picture of the Universe.

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Hebrew is a "primitive language?!" Talk about being BIASED! While there may have been 4000 words to write Genesis (whether that's true or not, I don't know), the language had SIGNIFICANTLY more words! How quickly we forget the simple truths of God's Word:

Genesis 2:18-20 (KJV)

18 And the LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet (suitable) for him." 19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

How many names would that be? How did Adam RETAIN that information? Could it be he had an ability to WRITE IT DOWN? And, just how many creatures can YOU name? And, this doesn't even count the fish and aquatic life!

Modern Hebrew has only 33 k words, there are no Vowels in Hebrew !! The Hebrew at Jesus' time had like 8 K words, and at the time Genesis was written had only 3 K words, not the 4 K I thought, {I learned that tonight}. So that is all that matters, when Genesis was written.

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

(See Brown-Driver-Briggs above.)

Hebrew has FAMILIES of words where a particular verb may be the root of the family, like the root of a plant. With different inflections and vowel pointing, that one word can be MANY words, and each one of those words is an independent word! Every name in Hebrew meant something. They were ALL based upon a word or phrase that was important around the time of their birth. Furthermore, their names were often given to their land or their city or their mountain, and people who also lived in that land, city, or mountain were surnamed by that land, city, or mountain. Languages like English, French, and Spanish are living languages; that is, the develop along with the populations that speak that language. As new discoveries are made, new words are formed to fit those discoveries. Latin is considered a dead language because no people speak the language as a primary language. Its vocabulary and grammar are "locked in" to what we remember from their historical usage.

At one point in time, Hebrew was considered to be a dead language because only Judaism's liturgy still used the language. Today, however, that language has been revived and is now considered to be a living language, particularly among the Jews in Israel.

And, you are TOTALLY WRONG about the usage of the word "yowm." It does NOT mean "a year, a month, a period of time, chronicles, evening and morning (Beginning and end), age, perpetually, long, some time, whole, X required season, continually, etc." The word in a PHRASE or with other words may be translated as such.

It means a PERIOD OF TIME or an EPOCH. It most certainly does. The Universe is 13.7 billion years old, not 6000 years old.

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

It's really quite simple: When is the hottest part of a twenty-four-hour period? It's WHILE THE SUN IS VISIBLE IN THE SKY! Why complicate matters unnecessarily?

 

There was 400 Million Years of DARKNESS....thats why the Evening CAME FIRST !! You get it now ? Then TO BE HOT........The Stars started forming, that is why its called a Day, God's Days of Creating went from DARKNESS for 400 Million Years to STARS {to be hot}. Our Sun was not Created until 4.5 billion years ago and thus was not around for the first 9.2 billion years, thus the First Day lasted 9.2 billion years. The same guys that can't see this can't see the Rapture !! It is what it is brother.

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Again, you're ASSUMING that the sources existed BEFORE the light! God said that He created the LIGHT FIRST! Then, almost as an after-thought, we read,

Genesis 1:16b (KJV)

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Timing IS everything!

Its mapped out, we can see back in time, we have a picture of it and by using the constants we know exactly why the universe had to be the size it is. 

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Despite the pretty graphics, microwaves are just another form of light energy. Microwaves are light waves with a shorter wave length than radio waves and longer than infrared waves.

They are still "guesstimating" what they WANT to see based upon their cosmological model!

This is still part of the LIGHT that He created on the first 24-hour yowm, Day 1!

Its a Map of the Universe that shows Gods holy word is correct via THE DARKNESS, and you are so proud of your belief you are going to miss out on that great thrill of a discovery. You see, when I tell Atheists these things it shakes them to their core because  gave one upped their lies. The Universe being CREATED now makes sense. God even spoke that there was DARKNESS on the face of the deep, and the sun was not created on the fourth day because the stars came  first THEN the Sun was created and the Seasons came about on day four because the Earth and Moon CLASHED into each other, then the moon became our satellite. I love how Atheists run when I explain the Creation as it actually happened unto them. But  they aren't afraid of what you guys are telling them at all, they still think their logic wins out. 

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

All you're doing is spouting off the rhetoric of Evolutionistic Cosmology! AND, you are STRETCHING to find it in the Bible, too! It's not there because it's not REAL! It's not TRUE! The Humanistic philosophy of Evolution is FUNDAMENTALLY INCOMPATIBLE with the Truth of God's Word.

 

Facts...you can't follow them because you are too wed to an IDEA brother. No one believes in Evolution, thats just you speaking that jargon, we believe God created the Universe over a 13.7 billion year period of time and that God created man 6000 some odd years ago. 

Let me ask you to be honest as the day is long here, do you really believe Adam named ALL THE ANIMALS in ONE DAY ? Come on now, did he did he not ? You see, the six day lasted for 300 million years until God RESTED, and we are still in Gods rest. This way Adam could name all the animals over MANY YEARS and that is what happened, of course. 

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Seasons are NOT created by the moon. Seasons are due to the earth's 22.5-degree tilt of its axis to the light of the sun! That's why the seasons are reversed in the Southern Hemisphere! 

 

Seasons were created when the moon became the earths Satellite, it most certainly was, you might want to look it up, the earth and moon clashed about 4 billion years ago and that is why we have the Seasons we do, without the moon this earths weather would be nigh uninhabitable, we would have waves 1000 feet high, and 1/3's of the earth would have no sun, and ice would cover most of the earth etc. etc. Without the moon we would have really VIOLENT WEATHER, Google that and see if I am right, I didn't just right that blog sir, I studied for months on these things. Here is a tidbit of what I found BELOW:

What would happen to Earth’s Climate and Weather if we had no Moon?
Anthony Watts / February 15, 2019
A provocative hypothetical question: What if the Moon was not there? Video follows.

This giant rock lights up the night and can even change colors. So what would we do without it? Would we all need night vision goggles? How would it affect the ocean tides? Our seasons? Or our sleep cycles? Or would the consequences be far more drastic?

As the closest celestial body to our planet, the moon exerts a gravitational pull that governs much of what happens here on Earth Take the sea, for example. If you like surfing, you can thank the moon when the moon’s gravitational pull tugs on our spinning Earth, the oceans respond, giving us high tides in some parts of the world, and low tides elsewhere.

…

The Earth would speed up it’s rotation, giving us days of six to eight hours long.

Rotating at that speed, we would experience winds up to 480 kms per hour (300 mph). Birds and insects would have no chance of survival.

Earth’s axial plane would vary by some 10 degrees, causing dramatic shifts in seasons, and rendering our climate uninhabitable. Most crops would die with the drastic temperature changes. We’d experience the worst ice ages known to man, as huge glaciers from the north and south poles would encroach upon the Earth, covering everything except perhaps a small band along the equator.

Go to YOUTUBE and TYPE IN......What if we lost the moon ?

You can watch a 3 1/2 minute video on the subject. So I am pretty spot on here brother, there would basically be no life on earth without the moon, and thus the Fourth Day gave us our SEASONS, go read it again !! 

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Most dinosaurs were created with the land animals. They are numbered with the "beasts of the earth." Dinosaurs are large reptiles, and reptiles never cease growing as long as they live. If a five-year-old Jackson's Chameleon can grow up to 2 feet, then if it continues to grow, it will get even larger. When men were on the earth before the Flood of Noach's day, they lived, according to the records of the Bible, to be 910 years old on average. Today, we're lucky to live 100 years old. The average age of human beings at death is more in the 70 to 80 years old range, even longer due to advances in medical technology. If a Jackson's Chameleon were allowed to live proportionately longer, they would grow proportionately larger! At 910/70 x 5 years, we would get a Jackson's Chameleon living for 65 years and growing 26 feet in length!

A Jackson's Chameleon (and a Johnston's Chameleon) have three horns on their face, two above their eye ridges and one upon its snout. It has the start of a cartilage neck frill, and the beginning of a "beak." If it were to continue to grow, it would look amazingly close to the Triceratops, as cartilage turns to bone!

The aquatic forms of dinosaurs were created with the other sea-going "air-breathers."

Many of the legends of dragons and other creatures living in the remote areas of the jungles could very well be based upon such creatures still surviving or recently extinct! Many believe they have spotted the Loch Ness monster and believe it to be a surviving plesiosaur! Such "monsters" have also been caught off the coast of Japan by fishing boats!

Don't be too quick to relegate them to 83.5 million years ago! Remember: They USED to think the Coelacanth was an extinct lobed fish that was a "missing link" between fish and amphibians, how many millions of years old? Finding them ALIVE off the coast of Madagascar FORCED them to alter their theory!

Well we know the Asteroid that hit in the Gulf of Mexico wiped them out some 70 million years ago brother. We are using oil that came from the Dinos right ? They couldn't survive that asteroid strike, so you might say God wiped them out in order to bring mankind forth.

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Here, you have death before you have Adam sinning. How is that possible if death is the RESULT of Adam's sin through which the ground is cursed along with the Man?!

 

These animals do not have Souls. They return to the earth and, IMHO, when God creates the New Jerusalem He will recreate many of these animals, who will keep their simple lives forever, but they will never be like us men who become immortal souls. Now I can't prove this, its just an educated guess. But I do know they are not immortal like mankind. 

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Remember that there are TWO "theories of relativity," the "general" and the "specific." The specific theory of relativity is boiled down to the formula: E = mc^2 or E = m x c x c. This formula gave us the idea that mass and energy are interchangeable, allowing for nuclear fission and fusion to convert small amounts of mass to enormous amounts of energy! However, we've NEVER been able to convert energy back to mass. That is God's department alone.

What you are talking about is the space-mass-time continuum, such that the movement of a mass, as matter, through space gives us the means by which to measure time. The letter "c" in the formula above, representing the speed or velocity of light, is an example: The velocity (m/s) is a measurement of the distance a mass has traveled through space (in meters) in the time it took to travel (in seconds).

The general theory of relativity I don't believe in at all. I much rather prefer the four-field-effect theory of gravitation that scientists of the Institute of Creation Research have discovered. They also give the formula for the specific theory of relativity but without all the nonsense of shrinking distances and expanding mass that Einstein proposed!

What we do know is via Nuclear Fusion the Universe had to be the EXACT SIZE it is or the Universe would have never came into being. 

Universe size matters!
Besides spiritual reasons, there are also physical constraints on the minimum (and maximum) mass of the universe. The universe could not have been much smaller than it is in order for nuclear fusion to have occurred during the first 3 minutes after the Big Bang. Without this brief period of nucleosynthesis, the early universe would have consisted entirely of hydrogen. Without helium (comprising ~24% of the matter in the universe), heavy element production in stars is not possible, so that no rocky planets would have ever existed in the entire history of the universe.

Likewise, the universe could not have been a much more massive than it is, or life would not have been possible. If the universe were just one part in 10/59 more massive, the universe would have collapsed before life was possible. Since there are only 10/80 baryons in the universe, this means that an addition of just 10/21 baryons (at 1.67x10−27 kg/baryon equals 1.7 mg of matter - equal to a grain of sand) would have made life impossible! The universe is exactly the size it must be for life to exist at all.

 

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

We aren't talking about any other idea but Rapture before Trib. We all know Jesus walked in the Garden, was at Sodom, was at Babel, etc. 

 

You get HUNG UP on the Two Comings just like you can't see the Rapture, you are too worried semantics to see the puzzle brother, thats my point. You are too worried about two coming to understand that Jesus already came back in John chapter 20, him telling Mary TOUCH ME NOT for I have not yet ascended to the Father, then 8 days later telling Thomas to TOUCH HIS WOUNDS prove he took the Sacrifice to the Father and Sprinkled his blood ONCE AND FOR ALL, then returned to earth and allowed Thomas to touch him. The Two Coming are about the two Advents, the Suffering Servant and the Conquering King, there is no two comings, that's a made up thought of people who miss the big picture, there are TWO ADVENTS, the Church Returns at the Second Advent ON EARTH with Jesus, before that Jesus CALL US to go be with him in Heaven Rev 14 he Harvests us from a Cloud !! Hes ON A CLOUD and THRUSTS in the Sickle, its as plain as day. 

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

There are no passages in scripture that explicitly speak to a pretrib gathering. Two of the most important to Pretrib are 1 Thess 4:15-17 and 1 Cor 15:51. What you and most miss is the clear timing in 1 Thess 4:15-16

"By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God,"

Nearly identical to:

"They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, " 

That's just too many similarities to think it's two separate comings. Even 2 Thess 2 points out the gathering is only after the beast is revealed. That's midpoint. Not pretrib.

The Bible was written for the Jews, the Church was an insertion by God because of Israel's disobedience.  Why did Paul call the RAPTURE a Mystery or Secret if its the SAME END TIME Stories the Jews had always been hearing about ? In Zechariah and in Daniel 12 etc. etc. etc. ? But the BIG PICTURE together brother, its because the Rapture is of the Church, God already married Israel, they must REPENT and accept their Messiah. We have ALREADY REPENTED but we have to go Marry the Lamb !! The Marriage of the Church to the Lamb has nothing to do with Israel, save a few of the Jews will be its first leaders and there will be a few Messianic Jews along the way, for the most part then Jews are BLINDED until the time of the Gentiles {Church} is come full, we know this cant mean Rev. 11 42 months, because it wouldn't be called 42 months then would it ? The TIME of the Gentiles is the Church Age Mantle God TOOK from Israel and GAVE to the Gentiles, go REREAD Rom. chapters 9-11, its all about God doing what He will at the POTTERS WHEEL, He gave the Mantle to the Gentiles and BLINDED Israel !! The Time of the Gentiles is the 2000 some odd year Church age, it has NOTHING to do with the 42 month period, NOR CAN IT, because it wouldn't be called 42 months otherwise !! 

Since the Rapture is not about Israel, then the Bible says almost nothing on it via the Prophets of Old !! Paul said its a Mystery. Musterion means Secret by Gods Silence. God was not telling Israel about a Rapture because God knew they would still be on the earth for the most part, they have to repent for their sins via the 70 weeks prophecy and ACCEPT their Messiah. We the Church have already accepted Jesus as our Savior. You are looking for a record of something in a Hebrew book, that God is not going to deal with the Hebrews in that manner, for the most part Jews do not accept Christ, so God gave them Prophesies about what is going to happen unto them, in Zechariah chapters 12, 13 and 14. In Ezekiel 38 and 39, in Daniel 11 and 12, in the book of Revelation, if and when the except Jesus they will then understand they must flee Judea via Matt. 24 etc. etc. But the Churches job is finished, we will be in Heaven, even though its only spoken about vaguely in the bible, the Rapture was given unto us by Paul {and Jesus} some 2000 years ago. We can see the Church in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are opened in Rev. 4 and 5, we see then in Rev. 7 also, and in Rev. 19 we return with Jesus Amen.

I can give many New Testament scriptures that point to a Rapture of the Church if need be, and a few Old Testament inferences also. 

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

I have no idea what this means.

 

It should have read....from reading Rev. 12:17.....No one reading that passage can deny THIS POINT:

That there is NO WAY anybody can deny that point, that Jews on earth can't be the Remnant THE REMNANT described there. The Remnant as described in Rev. ch.23 can only be the Gentiles. 

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

That thing I said about dark fantasy? This is it. But you don't stop there...

 

You not being able to understand something is not a fantasy, frankly, a 5 year old could understand this point, I have seen people that pretend not to understand things when they have been defeated in a debate before. Its easier to make a quip than to try to REBUT.... Mr UNREBUTABLE !!  

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

That's a wild conclusion. First, plain reading leads to, " the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."  Second, the literal seed of Abraham is Jesus as Jesus comes from the line of Abraham. Jesus is not the seed of the woman, He is the seed of Abraham. Third, we are not talking about the 'church' here we are literally hearing scripture speak about the seed of Israel that bears the testimony of Jesus and keeps the commands. That birth from Israel is due to the FACT, the easily understood FACT, the first to spread the Gospel were Jews. Every one of them. The 12 Apostles and Paul were all Jews, of the nation of Israel and of Spiritual Israel. So the 'church' fathers were all Jews of the faith. Fourth, any remnant is of that faith first delivered by Jews to the Gentiles. Fifth, that means that every Gentile believer is the remnant of the woman Israel. And sixth, only logical gymnastics leads you to some partial 'church' members left behind to fight the dragon. Seriously, how can you think that? You'll abandon your church brothers? Jesus died for you;  you gleefully send your own brethren to certain death. 

The WOMAN is Israel. Abraham is Israel !! You see how you butchered that ?  

I just explained why it CAN NOT BE the Jews....its simple facts, its not a complex theory brother.  The Remnant can only be the Gentile Church. Its not even complex. The only thing that's complex is it destroys your narrative on the Church not being already in Heaven at this time. 

Once again, the Woman {Fleeing Jews are PROTECTED and the 2/3 who do not flee will Perish AND they do not have the Testimony of Jesus, you know exactly what the point is here.......but if the Remnant is the Gentile Church it proves all the post tribers are in error !! So............

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

No it does not. You're fooling yourself if you think one follows the other. At the beginning of the chapter is the cheering for the end of the whore. We have no idea when that occurs. Your take would have that going on at the Marriage Supper. In fact since you are such a big proponent of the Jewish wedding ritual you should know you have it out of order. If the bride has only made herself ready the bridegroom has not yet arrived, "and his wife hath made herself ready." Jesus is on the way to get her. Nothing in the text says she is already been taken up, the bride is made ready only.

Further, the group accompanying Jesus is armies, "And the armies [which were ] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean"; 'armies', defined as "an expedition, an army, a company of soldiers". You seriously think this is the bride of Christ? The bride is often depicted riding white horses? Righteous armies of the Most High do not wear white linen?

Sure it does.................and you guys know it, which is why you guys have to avoid this chapter.

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

Only in a dark and twisted fantasy.

I know more about Prophecy than most anyone you have ever met.....I even scare myself sometimes, I have to pinch myself !!! 

[The Light]

On 2/15/2020 at 4:04 PM, Diaste said:

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I highlighted the order. One cannot say this is in any way inaccurate or incorrect;

It is absolutely inaccurate and misrepresented. 

 

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In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And the rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights. On that very day Noah entered the ark...

This is truth and it must be dealt with. On the 17th day in the 2nd month the deluge began and that's the day Noah entered the ark. To what other day could this be referring except the preceding description?

 

Baloney. You are misrepresenting what the scripture is saying. What other day could this be referring to? The scripture is saying that on the selfsame day Noah, his family and all the animals entered the ark. You say they loaded in 7 days and this proves you wrong. They loaded in one day. Additionally, scripture says that the ark was loaded and 7 days later the flood came. The fact that you are taking a paragraph that is finished and running it into the next paragraph changes what is being said. But we have proof that you are wrong. You might get rid of that translation if you want to know the truth.

Gen 7

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

¹⁰ And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Nothing you say is going to change the truth.

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"Then the LORD said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and all your family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. You are to take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate; a pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate; and seven pairs of every kind of bird of the air, male and female, to preserve their offspring on the face of all the earth. For seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living thing I have made.”'

I'm convinced the command here to into the ark is because Noah was found righteous, not a specific command to go into the ark that moment. God says in 7 days the deluge comes; like saying, "You have 7 days to get ready."

 

Again, Baloney. We see Noah went in and 7 days later the waters of the flood were upon the earth. We also have proof that on the selfsame day Noah, his family, AND ALL THE ANIMALS entered the ark. That means they did it in one day.

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"And Noah did all that the LORD had commanded him." That's not going to be possible unless Noah is in and out of the Ark during this time period of 7 days. Someone had to count and make sure the proper number of clean and unclean animals was correct. I mean, the deluge had not yet occurred and Noah and family not yet shut in. That only happened 7 days later...

Another crock of gold. Contrary to what you think, it's possible for Noah to do exactly what God commanded. You act is if Noah was out there counting animals and leading them into the ark. The Word says that Noah went into the ark and the animals went in two and two unto Noah into the ark.

Gen 7

⁷ And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

⁸ Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

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"On that very day Noah entered the ark, along with his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and his wife, and the three wives of his sons— 14they and every kind of wild animal, livestock, crawling creature, bird, and winged creature. 15They came to Noah to enter the ark, two by two of every creature with the breath of life. 16And they entered, the male and female of every living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the LORD shut him in."

And you have you noticed the repeat?

 

I noticed the translation you use is left wanting. Additionally again I will say, A NEW PARAGRAPH STARTS. So you are grabbing the subject from the previous paragraph and using it in the next paragraph. See the paragraph sigh below. That means a new paragraph has started.

 

¶

In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

 

Quote

 

1) "Go into the ark, you and all your family...You are to take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate; a pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate; and seven pairs of every kind of bird of the air, male and female, to preserve their offspring on the face of all the earth." -Gen 7:1-3

2) "And Noah entered the ark, along with his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives, to escape the waters of the flood. The clean and unclean animals, the birds, and everything that crawls along the ground came to Noah to enter the ark, two by two, male and female, as God had commanded Noah." - Gen 7:7-9

3) "On that very day Noah entered the ark, along with his sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth, and his wife, and the three wives of his sons— they and every kind of wild animal, livestock, crawling creature, bird, and winged creature. They came to Noah to enter the ark, " - Gen 7:13-15

So which is it? Can have it both ways. Can't enter the ark for salvation from the deluge 7 days before when the scripture says 'the deluge began on the same day Noah entered the ark'.

 

There is no need to have it both ways. What you are saying does not represent what the scripture says.
Gen 7
7 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

² Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

³ Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

⁴ For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

⁵ And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.

⁶ And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.

NEW PARAGRAPH

⁷ And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.

⁸ Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,

⁹ There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

¹⁰ And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

¹¹ In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

¹² And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

NEW PARAGRAPH

¹³ In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

¹⁴ They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

¹⁵ And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

¹⁶ And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.

¹⁷ And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

Conclusion - The word clearly shows that Noah was instructed to enter the ark. He entered, and then the animals came unto him. Seven days later the flood waters were up the earth. We can prove that Noah, his family and all the animals entered the ark in one day. And that day was 7 days before the flood.

You can believe what the word says or you can grab the subject from a previous paragraph and create baloney. The problem is that the Word already proves that the baloney that you create is false.

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by The Light

[JoeCanada]

On 2/14/2020 at 11:29 AM, The Light said:

 

Ok, if you can think of any questions relating to the pre trib rapture, I'm sure I can help.

Hi Light,

Ok....here is a question for you. Or for anyone in the pretrib camp. 

Acts 3:21 states that Jesus MUST stay in heaven until the times of restitution of all things, which includes the restoration of the theocracy under David's son, which obviously can't begin before or during antichrist's reign. So, the question is: How can there be a pre-trib rapture if Jesus MUST stay in heaven until the times of restitution of all things?

[The Light]

41 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Light,

Ok....here is a question for you. Or for anyone in the pretrib camp. 

Acts 3:21 states that Jesus MUST stay in heaven until the times of restitution of all things, which includes the restoration of the theocracy under David's son, which obviously can't begin before or during antichrist's reign. So, the question is: How can there be a pre-trib rapture if Jesus MUST stay in heaven until the times of restitution of all things?

Good morning Joe,

Why do you think that the scripture says that Jesus must STAY in heaven? I don't see that anywhere. I see that heaven must receive Him, but he is already there. So if He is sent at the trump of God, then must heaven receive him?

The Word says repent so that you will experience the TIMES of refreshing from the presence of the Lord.  

Then it says that Jesus will be sent. Pre trib rapture? Pre wrath rapture?

If Jesus is sent, THEN heaven must receive Him until the times of the restitution of all things.

To me these verses just prove a rapture. Jesus must be received in heaven, if He is sent.

Acts 3

¹⁷ And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

¹⁸ But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

¹⁹ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

²⁰ And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

²¹ Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

[OldCoot]

 

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

It means a PERIOD OF TIME or an EPOCH. It most certainly does. The Universe is 13.7 billion years old, not 6000 years old.

I will try to keep things less wordy in this regard in my post.  I have been fascinated by stuff that Australian Barry Setterfield has studied showing light speed has changed (slowed) over the millennia.  So while the distances we see in the Universe as indeed actual in linear terms, the ages being represented in common scientific circles is flawed.    One of the problems one runs into when one puts most or all their eggs in the Lyell Uniformitarianism basket. 

Gerald Schroeder, Israeli physicist, did an interesting analysis.  If you take what science says is the age of the Universe, factor the mass of the universe, and one is standing on the edge of the universe the time that science says the age of the universe is 6 days using basic Einstein Relativity.

I tend to side with Barry Setterfield's work on light speed and such.   With current use of radiometric clocks, there is no discernible change in light speed, but there is a discernible change when one uses basic rotational movement based time measurement.    Either the earth is speeding up in rotation around the sun or light is slowing.  Radiometric clocks, based on atomic changes which affect light, would change in unison with light speed changes and there would be no discernible change in light speed.

I haven't seen where Barry lays down any specific Bishop Usher time line, but Barry does suggest that the universe is likely not more than 10-20,000 years old.   Light speed according to Barry has been slowing on an exponent squared curve.   If one extrapolates back based on the know light speed measurements that have been taken since the 1700's and follow the curve, Light would be twice as fast as today during the time Jesus was on the earth, and increase to where light was virtually instantaneous at the time we believe creation occurred.  Anyone who has done an exponent square curve graph in a math class would see the correlation.  

Just another thought in the mix.   

 

[OldCoot]

19 minutes ago, The Light said:

Why do you think that the scripture says that Jesus must STAY in heaven? I don't see that anywhere. I see that heaven must receive Him, but he is already there. So if He is sent at the trump of God, then must heaven receive him?

Well, Yeshua did say that He would return to "His Place" due to the rejection of Him by Jacob/Israel, and would not return physically to the earth again until they acknowledge that offense and petition for His return.   So for Him to return to His place, He had to have left it, and therefore returned to the same place He left.  

Hosea 5:14-15 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me."

Where folks get a little messed up I think is equating the gathering unto the Lord as a literal physical returning of the Lord to the earth, which is literally the "second" coming.  So whether the removal is pre, mid, pre-wrath, whatever has nothing to do with the literal return of the Lord to the earth that will indeed occur.

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by OldCoot

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Which means EXACTLY what I stated..........If the earth is not Organized that means its fabric has not yet formed, and its an EMPTY SPACE. 

Shalom, "Revelation Man."

No, it's not even CLOSE to what you stated! For the Spirit of God to "move upon the face of the waters," we're reading about God's WIND that is moving across the waters. The planet was already present, but it was covered with water, and the atmosphere was negligible, barely the water vapor that naturally exists above a body of water exposed to a vacuum.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You are fighting a losing battle. You will understand exactly how old the Universe was/is when you get to Heaven.

Ha! Ha! I'm not GOING to "Heaven!" (Nor is anyone else.) That which is called "Heaven" is actually just the sky. In Hebrew, "shaamayim" is a DUAL word (not singular or plural) meaning "two skies" as an evening sky and a daytime sky. The phrase "shameey shaamayim," meaning "the skies of the skies," is talking about "the expanse above the expanse of the atmosphere" - the vacuum of space.

The description most use for "Heaven" actually belongs to the New Jerusalem, or Yerushalayim haChadashah, in Hebrew, and it is the actual location of the Throne of God and of the Lamb.

I believe that we all go to our "long home, and the mourners go about the streets." (Ecclesiastes 12:5b.) And, as Iyov put it,

Job 19:23-27 (KJV)

23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

He trusted God for a RESURRECTION!

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I am going to spread the truth now however so as not to push people away from the truths of God. People already to wrong by celebrating Santa Clause, thereby our kids think Jesus is just another "WHITE LIE" when they get to college and learn things these college professors teach them, you see, they give them half truths of Satan, they show them facts and tell them {in an off handed manner} that Christians believe the earth is 6000 years old, you can't believe anything your folks tell you man !! Which is why they need to be told the truth, so they have a shot at understanding, they can say "HEY.....I know the universe is 13.7 billion years old, but God Created it over 13.7 billion years". 

They REALLY need to know the truth! God DID create the whole earth, seas, and skies over the course of 6,000 years (or at least within 10,000 years). See, you have yet to answer the MAIN QUESTION:

How will you face God when you've disagreed with Him DIRECTLY when HE said,

Exodus 31:13-17 (KJV)

13 "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, 'Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth anywork in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.'"

YHWH God Himself made the link between the six days (Hebrew: sheeshet yaamiym) a week that work may be done (in verse 15) with the six days (Hebrew: sheeshet yamiym) in which YHWH made the skies and earth (in verse 17).

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Actually we  an see back through time with our modern telescopes to see what happened millions of years ago, didn't you know that ? The Hubble Space Telescope can see objects even more distant than your eyes can. When it takes a picture of a galaxy 100 million light years away, we are seeing the galaxy as it looked 100 million years ago.

So we can see the Galaxies forming in some instances. Galaxies still form, the Universe is expanding.

No, you are seeing the LIGHT that God created and wanted you to see at this time in history. Once again, until you get it, you are MAKING AN ASSUMPTION that this light left a source 100 million years ago!

You are MAKING AN ASSUMPTION that galaxies still form! You are MAKING AN ASSUMPTION that the Universe is expanding! And, again, this is all based on the ASSUMPTION that the red shifts and blue shifts in light from certain "sources" are the Dopplar Effect in light waves (of which we have no hard evidence). Then, ASSUMING that the red shifts are elongation in the waves and blue shifts are contraction in the waves, they come to certain conclusions as to how those "sources" are moving toward us or away from us, and the mapping of this motion relative to our position is assumed to show that we are moving more slowly than other "sources" or moving faster than other certain "sources."

I'll stop here tonight. If you want to discuss the rest, I'll be happy to do so later.

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, OldCoot said:

Gerald Schroeder, Israeli physicist, did an interesting analysis.  If you take what science says is the age of the Universe, factor the mass of the universe, and one is standing on the edge of the universe the time that science says the age of the universe is 6 days using basic Einstein Relativity.

I have seen that, I like his YOUTUBE Video, proving God in 5 minutes. I don't buy it, I just don't get why people think God has to change the Laws of Nature {which He created} to hurry up creation when God lives outside of time, thus hes everywhere at once, in the past, present and future. 

There is much more proof of an Old Universe/Earth than just light. 

God would have to change the Laws of Nature just to get the earth to cool off in 6000 years, it takes much longer than that. God doesn't need to hurry anything up. They can't seem to understand the bible is nuanced in many ways. We have to use belief co-mingled with logic. That same process tells us why the Jews had to bury their dung, God knew about microscopic germs, men learned about them in the 1800's or so, but now we know why, even though they probably didn't understand it back then. 

God bless brother, I will be praying for you. God is our healer.....

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, The Light said:

Conclusion - The word clearly shows that Noah was instructed to enter the ark. He entered, and then the animals came unto him. Seven days later the flood waters were up the earth. We can prove that Noah, his family and all the animals entered the ark in one day. And that day was 7 days before the flood.

You can believe what the word says or you can grab the subject from a previous paragraph and create baloney. The problem is that the Word already proves that the baloney that you create is false.

 

So you're going to base a rebuttal on paragraphs? 

I'm done.

I guess we'll all find out soon enough.