The Image of the Beast.

[douggg]

7 hours ago, choir loft said:

Lecturing, however futile it may be, is an attempt to transmit accurate knowledge.

Lecturing was a generous term.    

 

7 hours ago, choir loft said:

Those that are unfamiliar with education beyond the elementary school level will certainly find lecturing a foreign and unusual process.  It is valid nevertheless.

What you are doing is being condescending - from a less knowledgeable position, no less.

 

7 hours ago, choir loft said:

FINALLY, you seemed to initially agree with me that Daniel's beasts represent kingdoms.  Continuing on, you appear to reverse your statement and insist they are men.

What I wrote is that the beasts in Daniel 7 are both kingdoms and kings.    I did not reverse anything that I have written at any point.

You have yet to acknowledge that....

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

 

 

 

 

[choir loft]

On 3/7/2020 at 6:20 PM, douggg said:

Lecturing was a generous term.    

 

What you are doing is being condescending - from a less knowledgeable position, no less.

 

What I wrote is that the beasts in Daniel 7 are both kingdoms and kings.    I did not reverse anything that I have written at any point.

You have yet to acknowledge that....

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

 

 

 

 

I cannot acknowledge error - or agree with your apparent confusion of terms as demonstrated in your previous posts.

Again - a beast in the Bible represents a system organization or kingdom.

Agree or disagree?   Let's come down on one point at a time, sir.

A horn in the Bible represents a man, a single leader, who arises out of and is supported by his respective system organization or kingdom.

Agree or disagree?  Let's come down on another point.

The beasts are not literally both kingdoms and kings, but a leader may be interpreted as having the authority of a beast.  As such he will carry the beasts' name.

A leader can not be the beast itself.  Its a literal and figurative impossibility.

To clarify:

Another example may parallel Daniel 7 by explaining the historic meeting near the end of WWII between the Eagle, the Lion and the Bear.  

The eagle would be representative of US President Franklin D. Roosevelt, the Lion would represent British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and the Bear would be the leader of the Soviet Union Joseph Stalin. 

Biblical beasts always represent systems organizations or nations/kingdoms.  A horn or leader of a kingdom sprouts out of a beast or represents a beast.   A man cannot be both except in figurative language, which we do have in Daniel 7 and at the Yalta conference.

THE COMMON MISCONCEPTION by extension is that the anti-christ beast is a man.  He isn't.   The anti-christ beast is a system. Popular tabloid literature has confused the minds of simple people to accept their fantasy as a correct interpretation of prophecy.  It isn't because a beast in the Bible always represents a system an organization or a kingdom.

The employment of figurative language in the Bible has been a source of confusion for many - especially those who refuse to accept common definitions of terms as a basis for interpretation.

One can NOT reasonably approach a consistent interpretation of Biblical prophecy without the consistent application of definitions.'

Can we agree on the application of "beast" as system organization or nation?

Can we agree on the application of "horn" as representative of a leader of the beast its attached to?

Yes or no?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited March 9, 2020 by choir loft

[choir loft]

On 3/2/2020 at 4:57 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi choir loft,

We are talking about the LEADER of that system. `one of its heads.....he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God...` (Rev. 13: 3 & 6)

In Revelation 13:3, one of the heads of the beast is mortally wounded and healed again.  The HEAD refers to a man - a person in authority as leader of the beastly religious system.

In Revelation 13:6, the beast NOT THE MAN opens its mouth to utter blasphemy against God.   The beast represents a religious SYSTEM.

It's important to get the interpretation correct and not vacillate between words and terms.  

If we get the interpretation correct and preserve the definition of terms we learn what scripture means when it identifies the beast and the wounded head.

The wounded head:

In 1797, the army of Napoleon Bonaparte arrested Pope Pius VI and seized the property of the church in Rome.   The head was cut off.   Pope Pius died in prison two years later.

In 1929, Benito Mussolini restored the Papacy and 110 acres of land in the city of Rome to the Catholic church.  Thus Papal authority was reestablished.  The head was healed.  

Blasphemy of the beast:

"The Pope and God are the same.  So he has all power in heaven and on earth." - Barclay Cap. XXVII p. 218 Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V

If the above statement by authority of the Roman Catholic church isn't blasphemy on the part of a religious SYSTEM exalting itself against Almighty God, then please inform us what other example or definition does indeed constitute blasphemy.  We cannot accept a different definition or application because there is none other available.

The marvel of all this, the absolute marvel, is that the Bible predicted these events and actions over 1,700 years before they happened - EXACTLY as they happened.

The devil would have us believe otherwise and seeks to cloud our minds.   The best way to do that is to confuse words and meanings.

The Lord Our God is not a god of confusion, but of faith and good courage and hope.

Hope this helps.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited March 9, 2020 by choir loft

[douggg]

10 hours ago, choir loft said:

Again - a beast in the Bible represents a system organization or kingdom.

Agree or disagree?   Let's come down on one point at a time, sir.

At times, a beast can represent a kingdom.   But at other times, a person.    Agree or disagree?

 

Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

 

That's me, hollering at the choir loft...

Edited March 9, 2020 by douggg

[iamlamad]

On 3/7/2020 at 5:20 PM, douggg said:

Lecturing was a generous term.    

 

What you are doing is being condescending - from a less knowledgeable position, no less.

 

What I wrote is that the beasts in Daniel 7 are both kingdoms and kings.    I did not reverse anything that I have written at any point.

You have yet to acknowledge that....

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

I agree with Douggg here: KINGS WITH their Kingdoms.

I also agree with Douggg here: "from a less knowledgeable position, no less."

Edited March 14, 2020 by iamlamad

[choir loft]

10 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

In your reply to the sister Marilyn, you are saying that "The HEAD refers to a man - a person in authority as leader of the beastly religious system."   Yes,  "In Revelation 13:3, one of the heads of the beast is mortally wounded and healed again".

OK, but let us analyze more deeply the Revelation to clarify the matter. 

1 - The Beast has 7 heads, so Revelation refers to 7 men, right? But remember: Revelation says that the 7 heads are also 7 mountains, right? And ONE of the 7 heads of the Beast of sea is "mortally wounded and healed again".

OK.  Questions, answers and interpretations:  

a)  Which of the 7 heads - of the 7 men -is mortally wounded, I asked based in your assertion? As you said, "HEAD refers to a man-a person in authority as leader of the beastly religious system."  And they are seven men, From one to seven, which of the 7 men was mortally wounded? 

b) How was this ONE HEAD or this person wounded to death or mortally?  And how was this "MAN" healed?  

c) Again. You said: "HEAD refers to a man-a person in authority as leader of the beastly religious system." OK, but you should say here  to what "beastly religious system" belongs this person in authority, no?  What is this 7-headed religious system? Evidently this religious system has a name or a denomination, doesn't it?

Just curious:  What you know about the Beast of sea which has 7 heads for now?   Latter will be added 10 horns upon the Beast of sea. 

 

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.  Revelation 1:v.3

You are justifying Roman Catholic doctrine supported by the Jesuits and by Francisco Ribera, who penned the first interpretations at the end of the 16th century.  This dogma attempts to distract obvious Biblical references to the Catholic church as the anti-christ system and the pope as its head/horn.

Specifically your (a) question - verse 13:3 says "one of the heads was mortally wounded".   You ask a question the Bible does not specify - ie: which man was wounded.   History has shown us the man, the wounding.

b: I answered this question in a previous post with specific names dates and events.  Please refer to that post for your answer.

c: The Sea Beast in Revelation refers to a religious system that arises out of "peoples and multitudes and tongues" (Revelation 17:15).   The sea beast is a religious system as explained in Revelation - NOT a financial cartel and NOT a military dictatorship.  Identification of the sea beast as a religious system is clearly made in the book of Revelation.  I will not entertain a lengthy discussion of its identity because participants on these pages have difficulty accepting simple Biblical terms (beast = system & horn = system leader).   The earth-beast is created in the image of the sea beast.  It isn't a robot or facsimile of a military dictator as represented by popular myth and tabloids.

The image of a system or individual is similar to the original.  In the case of Revelation the earth beast is identified as the United States.  The US has an identical religious component to the sea beast - meaning Roman Catholicism.   The only difference between protestants and catholics is that protestants claim autonomous religious jurisdiction separate from the Vatican.  This is false, however, as protestants follow in lock-step with almost every tradition & date Rome has endorsed - contrary to the Bible and accepting of paganism. 

Beast of the sea which has 7 heads for now is a reference meant to confuse the issue.   I will not respond to hypotheticals.

Finally, Revelation suggests a curious turn of future events - our future.  

The horn upon the sea beast will be betrayed by the world and destroyed or dismembered.  You will not find this assertion in most tabloids BECAUSE they follow the Jesuit pattern for interpreting End Times events, again in lock-step with Vatican policy, the dogma of the anti-christ system.

For further clarification by SCHOLARS please refer to the writings of Martin Luther and John Calvin - fathers of the protestant reformation 500 years ago who both identified the Catholic church as the anti-christ system and the pope as the horn.   Since the mid-19th century, however, Protestant leaders have been demonically drawn to accept the Catholic interpretation of End Times events and personalities thus diverting Bible studies away from Rome to some fictitious unBiblical and non-Catholic authoritarian figure.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited March 14, 2020 by choir loft

[Leonardo Von]

Quote

The Image of the Beast.

The image of the beast is the "religious community" which will be form for those who will hold a grudge against Jesus Christ after the rapture.