REVELATION IS NOT ABOUT THE CHURCH

[kwikphilly]

9 hours ago, Michael37 said:

There is no need for anyone to get twitchy about ingrafted Gentiles "losing their salvation" and being cut-off from the good olive tree, because the only reason branches are cut-off is because of UNBELIEF, and God who foreknows all things, only choses the faithful to remain in Him. You can't lose what you never had.

Well said!  And yes,they never had it for UNBELIEF!!!                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik

[kwikphilly]

10 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

the same general story over again.

 Everything intertwines but that the same general story is being repeated is clear due to Rev 9:11, 11:7, and 17:8 and the things noted above.

Blessings..............

  Funny how "Christians"will go back & forth,back & forth on what should be very clear for that simple fact-the general story is repeated over & over every which way that it be Understood .Our Awesome God Almighty ,Praise Jesus ,desires none be lost                                              

                                                                                         With love-in Christ,Kwik

[douge]

16 hours ago, Michael37 said:

There is no need for anyone to get twitchy about ingrafted Gentiles "losing their salvation" and being cut-off from the good olive tree, because the only reason branches are cut-off is because of UNBELIEF, and God who foreknows all things, only choses the faithful to remain in Him. You can't lose what you never had.

That is explaining Romans 11:20-21 away. These verses are a warning, which if what you say is correct, are not needed, so why were they given.

The Gentiles through unbelief would not enter the kingdom on earth along with the believing Jews of the remnant.

The election of God does not select individuals to salvation, it is the purpose and determination of how he saves.

[Michael37]

10 hours ago, douge said:

That is explaining Romans 11:20-21 away. These verses are a warning, which if what you say is correct, are not needed, so why were they given.

The Gentiles through unbelief would not enter the kingdom on earth along with the believing Jews of the remnant.

The election of God does not select individuals to salvation, it is the purpose and determination of how he saves.

Similar warnings are the very fabric of the Bible's prophecies and teachings...and of course they are needed. There is always the premise that those whom it transpires are hardened unbelievers or irretrievably unfaithful to God will be separated from the genuine believers and faithful followers that God foreknows and predestines to abide with Him for eternity to enjoy their full reward.

1Th 3:5  For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

2Jn 1:7-9
(7)  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
(8)  Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
(9)  Whosoever transgresses, and abides not in the doctrine of Christ, has not God. He that abides in the doctrine of Christ, he has both the Father and the Son.
 

10 hours ago, douge said:

The election of God does not select individuals to salvation, it is the purpose and determination of how he saves

What are we talking about here exactly? I haven't been contending election, but since you raise it, I like what Peter has to say on the subject after the sorites, or heap of things, mentioned in the preceding verses:

Berean Study Bible 2 Peter 1:10-11

Therefore, brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a lavish reception into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

[douge]

12 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Similar warnings are the very fabric of the Bible's prophecies and teachings...and of course they are needed. There is always the premise that those whom it transpires are hardened unbelievers or irretrievably unfaithful to God will be separated from the genuine believers and faithful followers that God foreknows and predestines to abide with Him for eternity to enjoy their full reward.

1Th 3:5  For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

2Jn 1:7-9
(7)  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
(8)  Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
(9)  Whosoever transgresses, and abides not in the doctrine of Christ, has not God. He that abides in the doctrine of Christ, he has both the Father and the Son.
 

What are we talking about here exactly? I haven't been contending election, but since you raise it, I like what Peter has to say on the subject after the sorites, or heap of things, mentioned in the preceding verses:

Berean Study Bible 2 Peter 1:10-11

Therefore, brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a lavish reception into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

What are we talking about here exactly? I haven't been contending election, but since you raise it, I like what Peter has to say on the subject after the sorites, or heap of things, mentioned in the preceding verses:

Sorry I misunderstood, what you said below gave me the impression you were.

and God who foreknows all things, only choses the faithful to remain in Him. You can't lose what you never had.

Berean Study Bible 2 Peter 1:10-11

Therefore, brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a lavish reception into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Peter in this verse was talking about the remnant of Israel as being the elect who will enter the kingdom on earth.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 3/20/2020 at 5:49 PM, Michael37 said:

Paul gives warning of God's severe treatment of those, whether Jew or Gentile, who discontinue in His goodness (which leads to repentance, Rom 2:4).

The goodness of God leads thee to repentance. Romans 2:4. And clearly Paul means repentance away from the things listed in Romans 1:29-31.

It is God who grants us the ability to repent. It is part of the gift given to us via the cross; Acts 2:38, Acts 5:31-32, Acts 11:18. [ 2 Tim 2:25 ]

Belief that Christ died and rose from the dead is supposed to be a motivational belief; 2 Corinthians 5:15.

A list of rules does not motivate, the act of love demonstrated to us on the cross, should motivate us to want to be obedient to God.

Ultimately via the death and resurrection of Christ; via the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives, we are granted repentance, to reject that repentance is to reject the power of God.

What we need to learn as we read Paul [2 Peter 3:15-16] is that if we grieve Gods Holy Spirit we become His enemies; Isaiah 63:10, Ephesians 4:30-5:5.

and all the promises of God are and must be true;

"the enemies of the Lord shall be as the splendor of the meadow, they shall vanish; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalm 37:20  

[Michael37]

7 hours ago, douge said:

Berean Study Bible 2 Peter 1:10-11

Therefore, brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you practice these things you will never stumble, 11and you will receive a lavish reception into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Peter in this verse was talking about the remnant of Israel as being the elect who will enter the kingdom on earth.

You make these assertions which have no basis in Scripture, douge. Peter is addressing believers in Christ, who along with his retinue have obtained the same faith in Christ.

2Pe 1:1  Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

[douge]

22 hours ago, Michael37 said:

You make these assertions which have no basis in Scripture, douge. Peter is addressing believers in Christ, who along with his retinue have obtained the same faith in Christ.

2Pe 1:1  Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Peter is not talking of the redemption by the cross as Paul does, but rather the righteousness of Christ as expressed to Israel in the the law and prophets Psalm 98:2 Psalm 103:17

Peter was indeed looking for the prophetic kingdom on earth promised Israel ( Acts 1:6 Matthew 19:28).

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Revelation 2:11“Everyone who hears this should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. Those who win the victory will not be hurt by the second death.

Revelation 22:16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to tell you these things for the churches. I am the descendant from the family of David. I am the bright morning star.”

 

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, douge said:

Peter is not talking of the redemption by the cross as Paul does, but rather the righteousness of Christ as expressed to Israel in the the law and prophets Psalm 98:2 Psalm 103:17

Peter was indeed looking for the prophetic kingdom on earth promised Israel ( Acts 1:6 Matthew 19:28).

Only false doctrine and spurious treatment of Scripture would have the OT partition between Jew and Gentile still in force. Peter requires all Israel to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of their sins, and advises that the promise applies also to non-Jews. 

Act 2:36-39

(36) Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.

(37) Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles, Brethren, what shall we do?

(38) And Peter said unto them, Repent you, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(39) For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.