Parable of the Fig Tree

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The 144,000 are first fruits. They are NOT a harvest.

Here is your earthquake at the six seal. This is the second harvest. The first is the Church raptured pre trib.

Rev 6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Of course firstfruits are a part of the harvest: the FIRST part.  For grain, it would be a shief of the first grains to ripen. 

From the web:  "For first fruit, No specific amount or percentage of seasonal harvest is required for the offering of first fruits, "

What? You are calling the earthquake a harvest?

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Diaste said:

You mean except for the fact that is exactly what Jesus explained when asked. Jesus didn't liken it to anything other than faith and the extent of the power available if one walks in faith. I for one cannot add an idea that doesn't appear in the text. 

So Diaste, are you telling me that Jesus went to a tree to look for fruit in the wrong season and then cursed that tree telling his disciples that it`s OK to curse things that don`t live up to your expectations!!!!!

Come on now, let`s be real. of course not.

[The Light]

15 hours ago, Diaste said:

 

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Excellent. Pretrib has always demanded some must go through the wrath of God. Most every advocate fails to answer when I bring this up. And I have brought it up, dozens of times. You are correct, not one single believer in Jesus will go through God's wrath. 

So far, so good.

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No. Great tribulation ends and wrath begins  within the same allotted span of 42 months. The time of GT ends short of the full 42 months at the very end when the gathering occurs and God's wrath falls on the rebels.

I think we can prove that the 70th week is over and then there are 42 months of wrath.

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Okay, this is certainly Jesus coming as the passage you quoted contains this, "and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." If the tribes of earth mourn and then 'they shall see' Jesus, this is clearly a coming of Jesus. And since it's the first recorded appearance of Jesus to all the tribes of earth, in their sight, it's the 2nd coming.

Possibly on the same page, not sure. They will see Jesus in the clouds.

Rev 14

¹⁴ And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

However, when I use the term Second Coming, I am referring to the time when Jesus returns with his armies from heaven and sets up His kingdom on earth. This coming of Jesus is the gathering of His elect from heaven and earth. Yeah, they will see Him in the clouds so it can be a second coming, but this is not Armageddon. This is a gathering from heaven and earth (from the 4 winds(earth) to the uttermost part of heaven.

 

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One can rationalize these concepts in many ways I suppose. The problem is the false premise of secrecy. Nothing in this, or any other passage of scripture, speaks to a secret coming. Even the analogy of goodman and the thief does not speak to secrecy, it speaks to being watchful and ready.

I think this passage speaks of a secret coming.

Song of Solomon 2

⁸ The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

⁹ My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

¹⁰ My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

¹¹ For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

¹² The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

We have someone saying rise up, my love and come away. We see that he stands behind the wall and shows himself through the lattice. And what do we hear on earth? The voice of the turtle is heard in our land. I would say that's pretty quiet and secretive. It also says that winter is past, the flowers are on earth and the time of the singing birds is come -------SUMMER IS NEAR. This will be the secret rapture of the Church that happens before any seals are opened.

 

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And we have to be watchful for something. If it's a complete secret we can never be watchful for we would see nothing. 

The bridegroom is coming but we don't know when. Not only are we too watch, but we must be READY. We must have our oil.

Matt 24

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

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But Paul and Jesus do say when the 2nd coming occurs: after the A of D and before wrath begins, at the 7th Trump.

Paul and Jesus are talking about the gathering from Heaven and earth. Yes all eyes will see Jesus but it is not the coming when Jesus returns with his armies and sets up His kingdom. I'm confused why you think that wrath begins at the 7 th trump. The seventh trump is the end of wrath. Wrath begins at the 1st trump.

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
 

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No. "But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

We are not surprised by the day of His coming. Imminence is a fallacy. The day only comes like a thief to those in darkness hence, the analogy of the goodman and thief is one of watchfullness and readiness, not one of ignorance.

 

 

Imminence is not a fallacy. He will come in an hour that you think not. There will be two raptures. The first before the seals are opened. That will be the Church. When the fulness of the Gentiles comes in God turns His attention to the 12 tribes across the earth. The Lord will return for them before the wrath of God. God is not going to forget His people. He says

John 10

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

He will return for the Church in secret. He will return for the scattered 12 and all eyes will see Him. Those in the nation of Israel go through the wrath of God in a place of protection

 

[The Light]

On 4/13/2020 at 3:49 AM, Diaste said:

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It looks like you are trying to have it 4 or 5 different ways here. Even if it is near it does not mean it must occur at any certain time. Pretrib demands it occur 'before'; this is making a demand on the moment, that it must occur at a certain time, 'before'. If it comes at a time when 'you think not' then Pretrib is wrong as the doctrine demands a time 'when you think so'.

Jesus tells you EXACTLY when He will come. And then turns around and says that He will come in an hour you think not. What are you missing?

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And again, "But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief." Only those in darkness will be surprised.

That is exactly what I am saying. Matt 24 is the only evidence we have of the coming of the Lord and it is after the A of D and after GT. There is no evidence of a prior coming complete with timing. It's simply made up.And even though we know the order of things and the timing in relation to other events, we still do not know the exact moment; even as we will be able to understand the general time of His coming and our gathering.

It is the 2nd coming.

"“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. "

Seriously? You don't see that the people SEE Jesus coming? And have said more than once this parallels Rev 6.

 

Oh, I see Jesus coming. What I don't see is THIS coming.

Rev 19

¹⁴ And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

¹⁵ And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I see the gathering and not when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven.

 

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I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us ^f from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of their ^g wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

If their wrath has come then Jesus must be bringing that wrath, therefore He is present. Jesus uses both parousia and erchomai in this discourse to describe His coming. Parousia is literally 'the presence of royalty' and erchomai means 'to come from one place to go to another'. In plain language Jesus has left heaven to come to earth and is present in royal capacity, and for good.

Maybe, but I have my doubts. Traditions of men mean nothing when it comes to prophecy. Tabernacles is the only holy day in the Kingdom that I can find. No other. 

 

Yes we see Jesus coming. He comes to gather His elect from heaven and earth. And then the wrath of God begins. This is the gathering for the marriage supper where the Church is gathered from heaven where they will be for 7 years and the 12 tribes are gathered from the earth as the very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction comes. So yes, Jesus comes in the clouds and after that rapture, we see the beginning of wrath. It is not the coming when Jesus returns with His armies at the end of wrath.

Everyone seems to think that the tribulation is about the church. It's not. It is the 70th week of Daniel which is about the Jews. The Church is already in heaven (Revelation 5) It is not until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in that PART of Israel has the blindness removed.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by The Light

[Diaste]

On 4/13/2020 at 6:36 PM, Marilyn C said:

So Diaste, are you telling me that Jesus went to a tree to look for fruit in the wrong season and then cursed that tree telling his disciples that it`s OK to curse things that don`t live up to your expectations!!!!!

Come on now, let`s be real. of course not.

I think the passage speaks for itself. It's a lesson in faith and the power of faith. Jesus acts, then explains; about faith.

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, The Light said:

Oh, I see Jesus coming. What I don't see is THIS coming.

Rev 19

¹⁴ And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

¹⁵ And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

I see the gathering and not when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven.

I understand your point. The Matt 24 and Rev 19 accounts contain details not common to each other and the conclusion is it's two separate events. But why does that have to be the conclusion?

Is it not possible that Matt 24, Rev 6 and Rev 19 are accounts containing details about the same event? All three are associated with wrath. Matt 24 and Rev 6 are clearly the same event and we know wrath has come at that point. Rev 19 records, "And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God." 

So then why isn't this the same moment wrath begins as shown in Rev 6 and Matt 24? Are you saying the gathering could not happen a moment before wrath begins? Within the same hour? If we are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of the eye, then the gathering and translation from mortal to immortal happens so fast it could occur at any moment before wrath begins, even right to the 1/2 hour before.

 

18 hours ago, The Light said:

Yes we see Jesus coming. He comes to gather His elect from heaven and earth. And then the wrath of God begins. This is the gathering for the marriage supper where the Church is gathered from heaven where they will be for 7 years and the 12 tribes are gathered from the earth as the very day Lot leaves Sodom destruction comes. So yes, Jesus comes in the clouds and after that rapture, we see the beginning of wrath. It is not the coming when Jesus returns with His armies at the end of wrath.

.Not possible that wrath begins 7 years before Jesus returns with His armies for two reasons. In Rev 6 wrath begins under the same circumstances and timing as Matt 24:

‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. - Matt 24

"there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place." - Rev 6

Which as we know is, "mmediately after the tribulation of those days:" referring to GT that occurs only after the A of D, at the midpoint.

Then there is this, "So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Since no believer can be in the wrath of God, as you have said, then wrath cannot begin before these have been gathered. Since these are not the ones taken pretrib, as they went through GT, it's not possible for God's wrath to occur earlier.

18 hours ago, The Light said:

Everyone seems to think that the tribulation is about the church. It's not. It is the 70th week of Daniel which is about the Jews. The Church is already in heaven (Revelation 5) It is not until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in that PART of Israel has the blindness removed.

Dispensationalism tortures eschatology. One day you'll see. I hope for you and wish to see you 

"...before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. Never again will they hunger,

and never will they thirst; nor will the sun beat down upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd.

He will lead them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

 

[Diaste]

On 4/13/2020 at 7:19 PM, The Light said:

Yeah, they will see Him in the clouds so it can be a second coming, but this is not Armageddon. This is a gathering from heaven and earth (from the 4 winds(earth) to the uttermost part of heaven.

Correct. It's 'parousia'. Jesus comes the 2nd time and stays forever and He only comes when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies at the battle of Armageddon.

"Behold, a day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence. For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving to the north and half to the south. You will flee by My mountain valley, for it will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with Him" - Zechariah 14

On 4/13/2020 at 7:19 PM, The Light said:

I'm confused why you think that wrath begins at the 7 th trump. The seventh trump is the end of wrath. Wrath begins at the 1st trump.

First Trump

"Then the first angel sounded his trumpet, and hail and fire mixed with blood were hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass."

Seventh Trump

We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come. The time has come to judge the dead, and to reward Your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear Your name, both small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

Scripture says His wrath has come at the 7th trump, not the 1st.

18 hours ago, The Light said:

Yes we see Jesus coming. He comes to gather His elect from heaven and earth. And then the wrath of God begins.

On 4/13/2020 at 7:19 PM, The Light said:

There will be two raptures. The first before the seals are opened. That will be the Church. When the fulness of the Gentiles comes in God turns His attention to the 12 tribes across the earth. The Lord will return for them before the wrath of God.

 

.But you are saying wrath begins two different times 7 years apart. One at the Matt 24 gathering before the last week, then again at the end of the week. There is no evidence in scripture for two gatherings and two comings and two beginnings of the wrath of God.

[The Light]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

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I understand your point. The Matt 24 and Rev 19 accounts contain details not common to each other and the conclusion is it's two separate events. But why does that have to be the conclusion?

You already know the answer, you just don't realize it. The answer will be in another comment below as per your other observations.

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Is it not possible that Matt 24, Rev 6 and Rev 19 are accounts containing details about the same event?

No, it's not possible. Had you said is it not possible that Matt 24, Rev 6 and the coming of Jesus in the clouds in Rev 14 are accounts of the same event, you would be correct.

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All three are associated with wrath. Matt 24 and Rev 6 are clearly the same event and we know wrath has come at that point.

Yes, all three are associated with wrath and Matt 24 and Rev 6 are clearly the same event. Difference is we know Matt 24 and Rev 6 are the same event, but we don't know Rev 19 is the same event as there in nothing in Matt 24 that remotely relates to Rev 19(other than we know Jesus comes). What happens in Rev 6?

Rev 6

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

We see that the day of wrath is come. That means that we are at the beginning of wrath. That means that Matt 24 is at the beginning of wrath as we know they are the same event. But when we look at Rev 19, we know that Jesus is coming with His armies. We know that occurs at the end of wrath. So, Rev 19 cannot be the same event as Matt 24 and Rev 6.

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Rev 19 records, "And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God." 

So then why isn't this the same moment wrath begins as shown in Rev 6 and Matt 24?

 

As stated above we know that Rev 19 is wrath, but it is at the end of wrath and not the beginning.

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Are you saying the gathering could not happen a moment before wrath begins? Within the same hour?  If we are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of the eye, then the gathering and translation from mortal to immortal happens so fast it could occur at any moment before wrath begins, even right to the 1/2 hour before.

Absolutely not. The gathering does begin before wrath begins. You are definitely on the right track.

Rev 8

1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

 

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.Not possible that wrath begins 7 years before Jesus returns with His armies for two reasons.

Wrath does not begin 7 years before Jesus returns with His armies. Explanation below.
 

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In Rev 6 wrath begins under the same circumstances and timing as Matt 24:

‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. - Matt 24

"there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place." - Rev 6

 

Correct.

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Which as we know is, "immediately after the tribulation of those days

Correct.

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referring to GT that occurs only after the A of D, at the midpoint.

This is where the train falls off the tracks. You (and most others) think that the A of D happens at the midpoint of the week. You think that for several reasons including:

Dan 9

²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Then we know that the witnesses witness for 3.5 years and we know this

Rev 12

¹³ And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

¹⁴ And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

I don't agree with the conclusion that the Abomination of Desolation is set up in the middle of the week. This is what the Word says:

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

¹² Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

First point is what happens on day 2520? The seventieth week of Daniel is over. (7x360 = 2520)

Second point is when is the daily sacrifice taken away? In the midst of the week, on day 1185. (2520-1335 = 1185)

Third point is when is the Abomination of Desolation set up? On day 2475. (1185+1290 = 2475)

Fourth point what happens when the Abomination of Desolation is set up? Flee, there shall be great tribulation. How long is this great tribulation? 45 days. (2520-2475 = 45)

Proper conclusion from the above scripture: The Abomination of Desolation happens toward the end of the week not the middle of the week.

What happens after the 45 day Great Tribulation.

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

We see the Son of Man coming in the clouds. Is He coming the clouds with his armies from heaven? No, he sends his angels to gather the elect from the four winds of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Matt 24

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And that is confirmed in Mark 13

Mark 13

²⁷ And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Then what happens. From Rev 6 and Rev 14 we can see that the wrath God BEGINS.

From the written word we can determine that the 70th week Daniel is over with the coming of Jesus for gathering. Then the wrath of God happens. How long is wrath? Time, times and half a time, 1260 days.

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Then there is this, "So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Since no believer can be in the wrath of God, as you have said, then wrath cannot begin before these have been gathered.

That is correct.

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Since these are not the ones taken pretrib, as they went through GT, it's not possible for God's wrath to occur earlier.

Correct. This is the very thing that has people confused. The tribulation is a period of 7 years. The wrath of God is a period of 3.5 years. They are NOT in the same timeframe.

So the Church is raptured pre trib, before the 70th week begins. They are in heaven 7 years in preparation of the marriage. Look at the Jewish customs of what happens to the bride and what happens to the groom. Then the 70th week begins with the confirming of the covenant. This is the time of Jacobs trouble, when God turns His attention to the Jews. The fullness of the Gentiles are over and part of Israel has its eyes opened. They go through the 70th week and then are gathered from the earth after the great tribulation. The Church is already in heaven but return with Jesus for the gathering because:

Luke 17

³⁷ And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

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Dispensationalism tortures eschatology. One day you'll see. I hope for you and wish to see you 

70 weeks are determined upon they people.

Only 69 weeks have happened.

When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will have it's blindness removed.

There is yet a week to go.

 

 

 

[The Light]

On 4/15/2020 at 5:32 AM, Diaste said:

 

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First Trump

"Then the first angel sounded his trumpet, and hail and fire mixed with blood were hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, along with a third of the trees and all the green grass."

Seventh Trump

We give thanks to You, O Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were enraged, and Your wrath has come. The time has come to judge the dead, and to reward Your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear Your name, both small and great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."

Scripture says His wrath has come at the 7th trump, not the 1st.

 

We see in Rev 6 that wrath is about to begin. It begins with the 1st trump.

Rev 6

¹⁷ For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

What we see at the 7th trump is the end of wrath.

Rev 10

⁷ But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

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.But you are saying wrath begins two different times 7 years apart.

No, that's not what I am saying.

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One at the Matt 24 gathering before the last week, then again at the end of the week.

The coming of Jesus in Matt 24 is the END of the week. The 70th week of Daniel begins when the covenant is confirmed. That is when the white horse goes forth conquering and to conquer. That is when the 1st seal is opened. The first 5 seals are the tribulation. Immediately after the tribulation of those days, Jesus comes as we can see that in Rev 6, Matt 24 and Rev 14. When Jesus comes for the gathering (not when he is coming with His armies) the week is over. After the week is over there is still a period of time, times and half a time when the wrath of God occurs. That is the 7 trumps OR the 7 vials.

The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. We see them in heaven in Rev 5. The Word says that after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, part of Israel has it blindness removed. If you are looking for proof of a pretrib rapture, it's right there. The Church is not mentioned once the seals are opened. What you see is the 144,000 first fruits 12,000 from each tribe. The Jews that are across the earth will have their blindness removed and the 144,000 first fruits are proof of the coming harvest. They are the ones gathered from the earth, during the gathering. The Church is gathered from heaven during the gathering and is with Jesus in the clouds. Both return to heaven for the marriage supper.

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There is no evidence in scripture for two gatherings and two comings and two beginnings of the wrath of God

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the tribulation is a seven year period that begins with confirming of the covenant. The Church is already in heaven. The seven year tribulation is the time of Jacobs trouble. The week is over immediately after the tribulation of those days when Jesus returns for the gathering. Then the wrath of God begins. Wrath lasts for a time, times and half a time. Only the nation of Israel goes through the wrath of God and they do so in a place of protection. Of course the non believing world goes through the wrath of God.

The evidence for the rapture of the Church is that part of Israel has their blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles come in. That occurs via the pretrib rapture.

 

[Marilyn C]

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 7:32 PM, Diaste said:

I think the passage speaks for itself. It's a lesson in faith and the power of faith. Jesus acts, then explains; about faith.

HI Diaste,

Yes a lesson in faith as to what mountain?

Anything we don`t get what we want? Jesus cursed the fig tree for not giving Him fruit when it was NOT the time for figs. So is that what we are to do - curse when things don`t go our way?

Come on we really need to think deeper about this.