Seeking Guidance on Common Law Marriage

[Behold]

13 hours ago, FeministWhoLovesABeliever said:

Did you read the article about the word "helper"? 

I think that we agree that male and female are not the same. And I hear you say that, as a good Christian man, you are responsible for the family. I think that, when both partners agree, this can be a beautiful family relationship. But there are many examples of this not happening, of men that are tyrants and women who are treated as servants. To me, equality and feminism are about preventing that. 

 

The term "searing" makes sense to me. I don't want to get rid of God. To me, accepting that God will only accept those of his creations that are Christian results in a " sting of consciousness." I believe God wants me to love and accept others, not to coerce their beliefs or to judge them. I think that this perspective is reflected in scripture, just not in those passages that most most Christians choose to focus on. 

Did you look at it? i'm curious to hear what you think. 

I'm praying!

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond. 

Hello,

Yes, i was thinking about it..

Here is the problem tho...... the person teaching .....can you prove that they are  free from any politically corrected agenda or similar secular point of view and would never try to filter a verse thru their agenda?

Can you prove this to me, or to yourself?

I can't prove that they are that perfect, so, i have to realize that according to to their fundamental point of view regarding what they want me to believe.... is exactly what they are going to teach  me and  you,....Its  their point of view, using verses and a bible to teach their point of view.

So, is that the TRUE way , the honest way, and the REAL way, to teach Scriptural Truth?

This is why i dont listen to scholars or read commentaries or pay attention to anything that i can "hear" that has even the slightest "sound" of prejudice.

I understand that Men and Woman who are married... are co-equal as partners and as lovers and as friends and as a "family".

So, when your teacher said this..."" It seems to ME , that the woman was created to be the LEADER."

See, they said..>"its seems to ME....to "ME".....that the woman was created as the Leader"....so, to THEM, that is true....but that is not how i see.      See they are teaching that the leading position is the "woman", so, if i was a male feminist, i would conclude that this point of view is subjecting the man to the prejudice of this teacher who is teaching that the man should be a "follower."

I dont agree with that prejudice.   I believe that the man is the man, the woman is the woman, and both are a family.  Co-equal in this regard.

Here is what i can tell you as a personal observation... as a lifelong observation........its this....

1.) .If the man does not run his house, then he will ruin it.

2.) If the woman does not respect the man, then they will divorce sooner or later.

So, that is how it actually works out in real life, and that is how the bible teaches it.... as the inner workings of a marriage as related to a household and a family and the marriage partnership.

A woman is not to "run the man"......and the man is not to misuse the woman....>He is to be a leader, and she is to be a co-leader and helper, but she is not to be THE "authority"< as your teacher has decided to teach as "ME" =point of view.....

 

 

God answers prayers,

 

 

B

Edited May 3, 2020 by Behold

[LonerAndy]

19 hours ago, FeministWhoLovesABeliever said:

Yes. The bible says that. It also says "Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate." Mark 10:9 and that believing spouses should not leave unbelievers.  I'm mostly told here that lack of a wedding ceremony means that these two passages don't apply to us. But I haven't yet found or been shown scripture that demonstrates a wedding is required. (I fully agree that it would have been the biblically correct thing to do 9 years ago. But we can't go back in time. 

This article says that for the first 1k years of Christianity, most Christians didn't get married in the church. That it wasn't until 1215 that the church formally defined marriage. 

Yes. Two christian sides, each claiming the other is crazy to claim to be Christian. 

Yes. It is accurate. 

Nobody is without sin. Christ came to take that sin on. Many Christians are drunkards, revilers, coveters etc. while claiming entitlement of salvation.  

Whether or not it's a sin, 80% of evangelicals have had premarital sex. Are they also to be rejected from the Kingdom of God? 

What % of Christians, do you think, do everything God instructs of them? 

The question remains, what would God want a Christian man to do with me, today, given our 10 years of history?  

I think that your analogy backfired on you. . . .

If being Christian is about actions, for example loving God and others, turning the cheek when someone slaps you, and

"The foreigners residing among you must be treated as native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.—Leviticus 19:34

Than I am more Christian than many who claim that they are. (But not nearly as Christian as I aspire to be.) 

But if being Christian is about proclamation, than I am not and my husband is. 

He has turned his life over to God. What isn't clear is what God wants him to do with the person with whom, for 10 years, he professed and took actions with that were based on the mutual understanding that our relationship is sacred and that we are intended for each other in this life and beyond? 

Thanks for your offerings. I believe that I have found God and that she is not different than the God he is relationship with. I am interested in learning more about his knowing of God and scripture but not in denying my own relationship with God. 

Yes. The bible says that. It also says "Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate." Mark 10:9 and that believing spouses should not leave unbelievers.  I'm mostly told here that lack of a wedding ceremony means that these two passages don't apply to us. But I haven't yet found or been shown scripture that demonstrates a wedding is required. (I fully agree that it would have been the biblically correct thing to do 9 years ago. But we can't go back in time. 

John 4- Story of the woman at the well. 

• Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

So clearly, being married, is required.  If she wasn't required to go through the marriage process, then on what basis did Jesus say "You had five husbands, and who you are with is not your husband"?

Because she was not married to him.  People know if they are married or not married.  G-d knows as well.

This article says that for the first 1k years of Christianity, most Christians didn't get married in the church.

Yeah, that's true. They still got married though.  They still followed the standard practices of being married in the culture they were in.  My own sister did not get married in a Church either.  But she still got married to her husband, did so properly, and has been with him almost 20 years now, with their six kids.

Yes, logically Christians did not get married in the church, and nor did the Jewish people before them get married in the Synagogue.

And the reason is pretty straight forward.... How could Abraham get married in the Temple, when the Temple didn't exist yet?  How could Moses get married in the Tabernacle, when the Tabernacle didn't exist yet?   How could Christians get married in a Church, when no Churches existed?

Regardless of all that, they still got married.  They got married following the laws and traditions of the societies they were in.

Two people who are both Christians, and wish to marry and following the Lord, should do the same.

Now you mentioned that it doesn't specifically point out what the requirements are.   The Bible clearly indicates that a Christian should get married. As I pointed out above, Jesus did not gloss over the fact she was not married to the man she was with.

However, you would be correct in saying the Bible does not directly spell out what ceremony, or what is required.

This is because G-d loves all people of all cultures, and does not require that everyone everywhere conform to one specific cultural practice.  Only that a Christian conform to the cultural practices they have.

I remember watching a news media video back in 2009, out of Iraq.  ISIS was on the move, and Christians were being killed, and battles were going on across Iraq.  The reporter was in a small town, run by Christians.  Christian Iraqis, who invited the Reporter to a wedding.   It wasn't held at a Church either, and the music was so loud the reporter had to leave to finish the report, because you couldn't hear her over the music.   They were dancing.  They were singing.  They were playing songs.

It was wonderful.  A heavy contrast to the war and death around them.

As it relates to this, their wedding ceremony was nothing even close to what we have here in the west.  But they were still having a wedding, still getting married according to their culture, still following the commands of the Bible.

A Christian is to get married, according to the customs of the culture they are in.  That is what we should do.

Yes. Two christian sides, each claiming the other is crazy to claim to be Christian. 

No, you are misunderstanding.  It is the Bible on one side, and fake Christians on the other.   Let me explain.

There are numerous Christian groups in the world, that hold various beliefs that are not in the Bible, but do not contradict the Bible.

For example, my parents Church when I was growing up, taught that no Christian should go to the movies.  We were not to go to movie theaters ever.    Why did they teach that?  I have no idea.

Is that in the Bible?  No.   But does it contradict the Bible?  No.   It's just their thing.  Many Christian groups have "their thing", and there's nothing wrong with "their thing".

I know Churches that have a dress code, and men are in a full suit, and every woman is in a full dress.    Is that in the Bible?  No.  But does it contradict the Bible?  No.   It's just a thing.... it's their thing.

I don't agree with their thing, but I have problem with their thing.

On the other hand, there are some church that claim to be Christian, that deny that Jesus rose from the dead.  They'll say for example "he rose in spirit!"... no... the tomb was empty... Jesus cooked fish, and ate with his apostles.  He rose in body.

So does that contradict the Bible?  Yes.   And if they contradict the Bible... and claim to be Christian.... which is entirely based on the Bible.... that makes them crazy.

As it relates to this discussion, there are Churches out there who say "Well even if you are not married... then you are married in the eyes of G-d".    That directly contradicts the scripture.    How could it say that Fornication is sin, if you are married in the eye of G-d?  Why would Jesus say "the man you are with now, is not your husband" if she was 'married in the eyes of G-d'?

Those Churches that teach that... they are contradicting the Bible... they are crazy.

Nobody is without sin. Christ came to take that sin on. Many Christians are drunkards, revilers, coveters etc. while claiming entitlement of salvation.  

I agree.  Again, what did Jesus say?

"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?"

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

As I posted before, Christians who claim to have salvation, while being all those things.... are not Christian.  They are going to hear Jesus say those things above, on the day of judgement, and it will be a sad sad day for them.

My advice, don't be like them.

Whether or not it's a sin, 80% of evangelicals have had premarital sex. Are they also to be rejected from the Kingdom of God? 

If they refuse to repent of their sins, yes.   The entire Bible is about repentance.  It's not about, being perfect.  No one can be perfect.  But everyone can repent.  You can admit what you are doing is evil, stop doing it, and live better going forward.

By the way, I don't believe that it is quite that high.  A: the supposed research is not available anywhere.  B: The source of the data, if from a group dedicated to ending teen pregnancy.  Who do you think is showing up at those groups?   People who have never fooled around?   I think there was sample basis.  People not engaging in risky behavior, are not likely going to the teen pregnancy groups.  I never screwed around, and I sure didn't answer questionnaires by pregnancy groups.

But even if the number was 100%.   If 100% of evangelicals were doing it.... yes, it's still sin.   I'm not sure why you would think otherwise.  Put anything else in there.   If 100% of evangelicals were.... raping.   Yes, still sin.   If they were murdering.  Or adultery, or thievery....   yes, even if 100% of them are doing it... still sin.  Still evil.  Still wrong.

What % of Christians, do you think, do everything God instructs of them? 

Again, doesn't matter.  Evil and sin, are evil and sin, regardless of what percent are doing it.

To answer your question, I have no idea.   My job is to follow the Bible as best I can, myself.  It's not to sit around wondering what other people are doing.   I'll answer their questions about they are doing, if they ask me.  But short of that, none of my business.

Jesus has something to say about that.

Peter and Jesus are talking.  In conversation, Peter sees another apostle, and says this in John 21:21.

"When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?""

Jesus responds:

Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."

To update that to our modern talk, Jesus basically said to Peter.....

"What business is that of yours?  Nonya!  You worry about yourself."

So I don't know what percentage of Christians are doing everything G-d instructs them to do.  I do think it's a lot more than you believe.  Talking with people here, I wager a bunch are.

The question remains, what would God want a Christian man to do with me, today, given our 10 years of history?

I already answered that.  If a Christian man, was living with a non-Christian woman, he should end the relationship, and stop sinning.

10 years, doesn't matter.   It only matters if he was married to her.   If the Christian man vowed before G-d to spend his life with the woman, then he is obligated to keep his promise.

But if he is not married, and he is engaged in the sin of fornication, sleep with a woman he is not married to, then he is to stop sinning.  End the relationship.  A Christian man has no business being in a relationship with a non-Christian woman, period, end of story.

If I was not clear enough before, I apologize.  That is what the Bible teaches.

I think that your analogy backfired on you. . . .

If being Christian is about actions, for example loving God and others, turning the cheek when someone slaps you, and

"The foreigners residing among you must be treated as native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.—Leviticus 19:34

Than I am more Christian than many who claim that they are. (But not nearly as Christian as I aspire to be.) 

But if being Christian is about proclamation, than I am not and my husband is. 

Sorry, but I don't see any connection between the verse you posted, and the statements you made.

Leviticus 19, is about how the nation of Israel is to treat foreigners.   There is zero application between that verse, and whether or not you are a Christian, or how Christian marital relationships are to be conducted.

He has turned his life over to God. What isn't clear is what God wants him to do with the person with whom, for 10 years, he professed and took actions with that were based on the mutual understanding that our relationship is sacred and that we are intended for each other in this life and beyond? 

Thanks for your offerings. I believe that I have found God and that she is not different than the God he is relationship with. I am interested in learning more about his knowing of God and scripture but not in denying my own relationship with God. 

I wish you the best.  I hope to see you back on this forum in a few years, talking about what good things have happened in your lives.

Edited May 3, 2020 by LonerAndy

[FeministWhoLovesABeliever]

14 hours ago, Behold said:

Hello,

Yes, i was thinking about it..

Here is the problem tho...... the person teaching .....can you prove that they are  free from any politically corrected agenda or similar secular point of view and would never try to filter a verse thru their agenda?

I cannot. I can say  that their website and statement of beliefs are more conservative than I appreciate. But can you prove that the people who collected and interpreted the cannon were free from any politically corrected agenda, secular points of view, and would never try to filter a verse through their agenda?  

14 hours ago, Behold said:

Can you prove this to me, or to yourself?

I can't prove that they are that perfect, so, i have to realize that according to to their fundamental point of view regarding what they want me to believe.... is exactly what they are going to teach  me and  you,....Its  their point of view, using verses and a bible to teach their point of view.

So, is that the TRUE way , the honest way, and the REAL way, to teach Scriptural Truth?

This is why i dont listen to scholars or read commentaries or pay attention to anything that i can "hear" that has even the slightest "sound" of prejudice.

Perhaps we are alike in our opposition. This is why I don't listen to things that have the slightest "sound" of prejudice against the feminine. :-) 

14 hours ago, Behold said:

I understand that Men and Woman who are married... are co-equal as partners and as lovers and as friends and as a "family".

So, when your teacher said this..."" It seems to ME , that the woman was created to be the LEADER."

See, they said..>"its seems to ME....to "ME".....that the woman was created as the Leader"....so, to THEM, that is true....but that is not how i see.      See they are teaching that the leading position is the "woman", so, if i was a male feminist, i would conclude that this point of view is subjecting the man to the prejudice of this teacher who is teaching that the man should be a "follower."

I dont agree with that prejudice.   I believe that the man is the man, the woman is the woman, and both are a family.  Co-equal in this regard.

Here is what i can tell you as a personal observation... as a lifelong observation........its this....

1.) .If the man does not run his house, then he will ruin it.

Having survived a marriage like this, I can tell you from personal observation that if an incapable man is allowed to run his house, he will ruin it. 

14 hours ago, Behold said:

2.) If the woman does not respect the man, then they will divorce sooner or later.

And if the man doesn't respect the woman, they will divorce or she will be abused. 

14 hours ago, Behold said:

So, that is how it actually works out in real life, and that is how the bible teaches it.... as the inner workings of a marriage as related to a household and a family and the marriage partnership.

A woman is not to "run the man"......and the man is not to misuse the woman....>He is to be a leader, and she is to be a co-leader and helper, but she is not to be THE "authority"< as your teacher has decided to teach as "ME" =point of view.....

I have never tried to "run" my husband. I wouldn't want to. I admire and respect him. He is my hero. We are co-leaders. Neither is THE authority. 

14 hours ago, Behold said:

God answers prayers,

Still praying. Thank you. 

[Prycejosh1987]

On 4/19/2020 at 9:19 PM, FeministWhoLovesABeliever said:

I am 10 years into a relationship, and very much in love, with a Christian. It was our intention to spend the rest of our life together. But he has recently gone through trauma that deepened his relationship to Christ and now wants a Christian marriage. I am not Christian or called by Jesus. As it stands now, are we one flesh? (Mark 10:6-8)  Can I be saved by him? (Corinthians 7:12-16) Would staying together constitute a new choice to be unequally yoked (2 Corinthians 6:14?)  Would leaving each other constitute adultery? (Matthew 19:9) 

He wants to wait for me to find Jesus. I am pretty certain that won't happen. 

Please, someone, help me find the answers I seek.  (So far, in other places that I've asked, people have responded by trying to convert me. And I'm totally happy to go through that exercise, with an open mind, again and again. But it would be really great if I could also receive answers to my questions.) 

The bible says the believing husband is sanctified by the unbelieving wife, vice versa. 1 Corinthians 7:14. It means that if your husband fights for you it can help you spiritually. I hope he is doing that, i wish him and you Good luck, God bless.