BIG, BIG NEWS: RESURRECTION AND RAPTURE ON MARCH 14, 2023?

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

6 hours ago, Zemke said:

In 2Timothy 4:8 Paul is speaking of the reward awaiting him and he goes on to say that not only will he receive a gift but also to all those who loved His  appearing. There is a principle in this statement that you captured in your response to me and that is the joy and anticipation fulfilled in the love of Our Lords appearing. It's a principle that crushes over all differences of timing. 

 

Zemke, I appreciated your words. Trust me, I am all about the testimony of Jesus. As God opens our eyes to His timing, I believe that we need to be telling people more and more to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus as Lord and Savior. He will save His chosen ones by His Spirit as we do this. Frankly, I now believe that God's timing is patently clear: Elijah's school of the prophets taught that God is on a 6-millennia timeline before a 7th millennium of the Eternal State. This is the prophetic meaning of the Genesis prologue, which has wonderfully beautiful figures in it--even the rapture! Church Father Irenaeus believed the same, as did Archbishop James Ussher, though he got the 4000 years to Christ's birth, not His death.

Anyway, loved your reply, especially the parallels between Jericho--I think a figure for unregenerate Jerusalem, the harlot, which will be destroyed in the last 7 "days," years. I may write you back about this.

Love in the Lord,

Clive

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

7 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

All these things MUST happen in this decade.

The SPECIFIC and wonderful and glorious day 1335 God revealed to Daniel (1290 plus 45 days) it is the Great Day of JESUS's coming.  Aleluiaaaa!

Oseas, His Spirit which God has given you is obvious in your comments! Praise to God!

However, animal sacrifices are not obsolete to unsaved Orthodox Jews. They have already begun them in recent years on various feast days. The one that is scheduled for May 8, 2020 is a second Passover sacrifice of a lamb for all the Jews of Israel and perhaps around the world, perhaps even for Gentiles around the world. At least that is what they think. Then, for the next 7 days they plan to have their regular daily sacrifice, morning and evening, to prepare for their 3rd Temple (I call it 4th, because I count Herod's and 4 is one of God's numbers for Israel: 4 millennia). They want to build it in place of the Dome of the Rock and, I believe, that it will be built, because the Jewish Antichrist is going to take his seat there, as you write.

If the daily sacrifices continue after the 7 days, which I believe they will, then they will run for 2300 days until the Jewish Antichrist stops them. So, it is not the sacrifice of Jesus that is stopped in the middle of the "week."

It's going to take a big regional Mideast war to bring about the 4th Temple, I believe. Scripture seems to indicate this. It may happen before the resurrection and rapture or after, I'm not sure. My guess is before.

Blessings,

Clive

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Pretrib is littered with rhetoric, inaccurate propositions and a false equivalency or two. 

Where does the Pretrib doctrine not cheat with the data would be a shorter discussion.

 

Diaste, I asked for specifics. Where are they? I gave you 10 arguments for the resurrection and rapture before Christ's final coming and you haven't refuted 1. If you want to argue a different interpretation, go for it. Shoot me down. Argue your points. I haven't read any yet.

Blessings,

Clive

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

Agreed. Anyone totally sold on pre-trib should dare to watch Dr Heiser's Eschatology Video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDJt_L-aUZk

If you are serious, watch that. Then tell us what you think afterwards.

There is no point on saying it often and loud - that will not make it so. Just do a bit of real study please.

 

Thanks, Justin. I will watch and get back to you. I appreciate it. If it changes my mind, great. I don't think that it will, but I am open to the possibility. Of course I want to know God's truth. Did you read my 10 arguments that I quickly gave to a Christian brother off the top of my head? They are near the start of this thread. Refute them if you can. I'll read what you write. And I'll change my mind if you convince me.

Blessings as usual, Justin,

Clive

 

[Heleadethme]

22 hours ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

Heleadethme, believe me, I am in a state of readiness, but God has not left us in the dark, not knowing His timing:

1 Thessalonians 5:4-6 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

⁴ But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; ⁵ for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; ⁶ so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

Also, you may have missed what I wrote about the first Advent:

Also, God did give a very clear indication of the timing of Christ's first coming in figure of the Passover lamb being kept in the house for 4 days before it was killed. If people had studied OT chronology, they could have figured out that the Messiah would be killed 4 millennial "days" after "day" (year) one the creation "week," and exactly 1000 years after Kind David died. Daniel's 7 and 62 heptads also gave a clear timing for the Messiah. Perhaps this is how the magi knew that a King would be born in their time and when the star showed up, they knew to follow. Just like the first Advent, the Second Coming and the resurrection and rapture have very specific timings associated with them and they are easy to find: they are in the Bible!

There is great value in understanding the times and paying attention to what God is doing in the world. Here is only 1 verse that commends it:

1 Chronicles 12:32 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

³² Of the sons of Issachar, men who understood the times, with knowledge of what Israel should do, their chiefs were two hundred; and all their kinsmen were at their command.

Agree we need to be watchful in general.  As long as we don't let anything become a distraction from what really matters.   Readiness has much more to do with the condition of our hearts and it's as we obey and follow the Lord and grow closer to Him that He will reveal what the Father is doing as we need to know it (or even just so that we will marvel and worship Him more, because He is glorifying Himself).  Remember Jesus saying I no longer call you servants but friends, because He made known to them all that the Father had given Him......because they had forsaken everything to follow and walk with Him...."Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations."  Luk 22:28  .....the Way for all believers is the way of the cross as we follow and obey Him.

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

14 hours ago, Diaste said:

An excellent suggestion. I doubt very much anyone sold on pretrib will delve into a study that does not confirm bias. To find the truth one has to love the truth.

Pretrib appeals to the flesh though fear. It places trust in a doctrine, not the Spirit. It's a false prophet and we know from long history how a portion of the people called by His name love their prophets and kings.

Committed Christians have different views on all kinds of secondary stuff.  As I wrote Justin, of course I will watch the video. If I don't change my mind, will you still love me as a brother?

Love in the Lord,

Clive

[Heleadethme]

22 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

God takes the IT out of the way. The IT is the restrainer. Kind of like an EDICT, or LAW. When it is removed, other things can occur.

The RESTRAINER is a THING. It is not a person it is an enactment of a THING. It should read,"when IT is taken out of the way". (no doubt by God)

https://www.nakedbiblepodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/AusIsa662Thess2Restrainer.pdf

There is much Greek discussion here.

Maybe we can think of this like when the Lord gave Satan permission to do anything to Job except take his life.....in this way He restrained Satan.  The Lord has the devil on a leash so to speak.....but in the last days it mentions in Daniel that transgression will come to the full.....so it sounds as though the Lord will stop restraining evil at some point so that it can come to the full in order that it be fully exposed and fully and justfully judged.  Reminds me also of when the Israelites were kept from conquering the Canaanites until their transgression had come to the full.

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

4 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Agree we need to be watchful in general.  As long as we don't let anything become a distraction from what really matters.   Readiness has much more to do with the condition of our hearts and it's as we obey and follow the Lord and grow closer to Him that He will reveal what the Father is doing as we need to know it (or even just so that we will marvel and worship Him more, because He is glorifying Himself).  Remember Jesus saying I no longer call you servants but friends, because He made known to them all that the Father had given Him......because they had forsaken everything to follow and walk with Him...."Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations."  Luk 22:28  .....the Way for all believers is the way of the cross as we follow and obey Him.

Amen, Heleadethme! I'm in total agreement.

[Justin Adams]

9 minutes ago, CLIVE CAMPBELL said:

Thanks, Justin. I will watch and get back to you. I appreciate it. If it changes my mind, great. I don't think that it will, but I am open to the possibility. Of course I want to know God's truth. Did you read my 10 arguments that I quickly gave to a Christian brother off the top of my head? They are near the start of this thread. Refute them if you can. I'll read what you write. And I'll change my mind if you convince me.

Blessings as usual, Justin,

Clive

 

It has to do with the 'taken out of the way' translation and the many allegorical prophecies that are 'memes' so we get the gist but not the full import of what will happen.

Although the writers were not as scientifically astute as we might be today, the supernatural was well accepted and understood. The supernatural is hard to put into words so allegories and visions are presented to us.

Sometime we are too 'rational' for our own good. A little child sees more than we allow ourselves.

Many fine minds in the Rabbinic tradition were theorising in the second temple period as per Qumran commentaries.

It seems to be apparent that Heaven and Earth (erets - which can also mean the underworld) are conjoined in a battle of spiritual and physical proportions that boggles the mind. Bashan is said to represent all evil and the denizens of the deep supernatural. I think God will put ALL the cards on the table and show us our foes in a very substantial way. Spirits and the good and bad sons of God have SUBSTANCE and are not ethereal - just different. When this final battle takes place everyone will see everyone else in both realms. Then it will all make sense. And 'pop' will go the weasel...

It is Cosmic Geography and all realms will be poised for the end game. As in Heaven, so on the Earth.

 

[CLIVE CAMPBELL]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

Alway dangerous. I really feel for folk that have been drinking this koolaid for so many years. I just hope their faith will not fail when it just does not happen the way the prophecy pundits say...

Justin, as I just wrote Diaste, these are arrogant, uncharitable words. You can do better! You apparently agree with Diaste that I am placing trust in a doctrine and not the Spirit. You don't even know me, except for our brief interaction here, and you write this. Sad. I'm sure that all of us are wrong about something in our views. We know we are not wrong about Jesus being our Lord and Savior. That is the main thing! I suggest that we hold to other things way more humbly, knowing that we could be wrong. At this point, I expect that you will be surprised when you are raptured, Justin. So, you might be wrong. On the other hand, I might be wrong. But let's not be arrogant in our views. Let's love each other as brothers and sisters in Christ!