Rapture 2020: the Countdown to the End

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, ChickenCoop said:

The rapture can happen at any moment.  

No. Not yet.

[Diaste]

4 hours ago, ChickenCoop said:

. The adding and taking away verse deals with the book of revelation. 

True. The resurrection and the gathering are major events of the Revelation, however.

A pretrib rapture adds an early resurrection to the prophecy of the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Or a pretrib rapture places the gathering earlier than the Revelation states, well before even the martyrs are killed, essentially adding into the timeline where it should not be.

 

[BeauJangles]

7 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Before the rapture there will be seven years of tribulation.  After the tribulation there will be one thousand years of reigning and then the resurrection of the dead in Christ followed by the rapture.

From this description it doesn't exactly sound like a "rapture" to me. More like a Second Coming. As a dispensationalist this would be out of time sequence. 

[BeauJangles]

On 5/3/2020 at 8:13 AM, Rapture and End Times said:

From counting farm animals, we have invented the natural numbers. The need to count faster lead to the computer. But, we don’t need computers to determine when the end will happen. There a way we can calculate it with simple addition. https://raptureandendtimes.com/2020/05/02/rapture-2020-the-countdown-to-the-end/

We're about to be served dinner here, so I don't have time to check this link at this time. Later perhaps. From what it appears, we've so-called prediction? Maybe not. I almost get frustrated with attempted pinpointing for the Second Coming and here's why. Every time somebody does, Jesus never comes then. So, maybe if these predictions stop the Lord will come sooner. I've been waiting a long time and tired of growing old! 

[seeking the lost]

1 hour ago, BeauJangles said:

From this description it doesn't exactly sound like a "rapture" to me. More like a Second Coming. As a dispensationalist this would be out of time sequence. 

The purpose of the rapture is not to escape the wrath of God.  The mark of God takes care of that.  The purpose of the rapture is to take the christians who are alive and remain to the new heavens and the new earth.  It is imperative that the rapture is linked to the resurrection of the dead in Christ.  They must be raised first.

Edited June 5, 2020 by seeking the lost
spelling

[seeking the lost]

6 hours ago, ChickenCoop said:

Now you are adding things. 

1. The scripture is not offensive you are. 

2. The adding and taking away verse deals with the book of revelation. 

3. You are adding and taking away claiming that the event in Thessalonians are two separate events.  I have never seen or heard anyone make such a claim. 

 

The primary texts that teach us of the rapture are 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18, and 1 Corinthians 15.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Chorinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Both of these texts link the rapture with the resurrection. 1 Thessalonians specifies that the dead in Christ must be raised first.  

This resurrection happens at the end of the thousand years.  This is when Jesus comes as judge of all the earth and all will stand before Him.

If anyone teaches that this rapture can happen at any time they must also be willing to add a resurrection at any time.  That is not ligitamate Bible study.  The resurrections are clearly defined as to the time and those who take part in each.  This is in Revelation 20:  4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is only those who lost their lives for Jesus.  The first resurrection does not include all the dead in Christ.  The second resurrection is when the rest of the dead are raised.  That is the only time that the rapture can occur and be faithful to the Word of God.

[BeauJangles]

13 minutes ago, ChickenCoop said:

Or maybe if we all jump up and down at the same time we will rapture. 

               

1. I'll Fly Away

   Johnny Cash

   Some glad morning when this life is o'er
   I'll fly away
   To that home on God's celestial shore
   I'll fly away

   I'll fly away, oh glory, I'll fly away
   When I die, Hallelujah, by and by
   I'll fly away
   Just a few more weary days and then
   I'll fly away

   To that land where joy will never end
   I'll fly away
   I'll fly away, oh glory, I'll fly away
   When I die, Hallelujah, by and by
   I'll fly away

   Oh I'll fly away, oh glory, I'll fly away in the morning
   When I die, Hallelujah, by and by
   I'll fly away

[Diaste]

8 hours ago, ChickenCoop said:

@Diaste

number 3 above is my biggest concern about his post.

What would this, "3. You are adding and taking away claiming that the event in Thessalonians are two separate events. " refer to? Does it mean a claim the Coming of the Lord and the gathering are two separate events? I do not understand.

[Diaste]

7 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

The primary texts that teach us of the rapture are 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18, and 1 Corinthians 15.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Chorinthians 15: 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Both of these texts link the rapture with the resurrection. 1 Thessalonians specifies that the dead in Christ must be raised first.  

This resurrection happens at the end of the thousand years.  This is when Jesus comes as judge of all the earth and all will stand before Him.

If anyone teaches that this rapture can happen at any time they must also be willing to add a resurrection at any time.  That is not ligitamate Bible study.  The resurrections are clearly defined as to the time and those who take part in each.  This is in Revelation 20:  4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is only those who lost their lives for Jesus.  The first resurrection does not include all the dead in Christ.  The second resurrection is when the rest of the dead are raised.  That is the only time that the rapture can occur and be faithful to the Word of God.

Two resurrections. One at the last trump and one after the thousand years. At the last trump the dead in Christ are raised first then the remaining living in Jesus. There is no qualification in Paul's words. In Rev 20 there is but don't ignore, "and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands". This is a large group that though they didn't die by beheading, they passed the test of the mark and did not worship the beast or the image. 

I also find it hard to imagine that ALL the dead in Christ from the time of the ascension are not raised and taken to meet the Lord as many were raised from the dead when Jesus was taken to heaven.

It looks like the final qualifier is "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.". This could very well be a special group who specifically lost their lives for Jesus and overcame the test of the beast and only this group lives and reigns with Jesus. That does not preclude the resurrection of all the dead in Christ who died since the ascension, or even since the Fall.

[seeking the lost]

12 hours ago, Diaste said:

Two resurrections. One at the last trump and one after the thousand years. At the last trump the dead in Christ are raised first then the remaining living in Jesus. There is no qualification in Paul's words. In Rev 20 there is but don't ignore, "and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands". This is a large group that though they didn't die by beheading, they passed the test of the mark and did not worship the beast or the image. 

I also find it hard to imagine that ALL the dead in Christ from the time of the ascension are not raised and taken to meet the Lord as many were raised from the dead when Jesus was taken to heaven.

It looks like the final qualifier is "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.". This could very well be a special group who specifically lost their lives for Jesus and overcame the test of the beast and only this group lives and reigns with Jesus. That does not preclude the resurrection of all the dead in Christ who died since the ascension, or even since the Fall.

Greetings Diaste.

Do you have a source that gives an account of those who were raised at the time of the resurrection of Christ?  Did they ascend with Jesus?  Did they die again?  Are they still alive on the earth today?  It seems the Bible is silent on this point.

The first resurrection does contain the martyrs but beyond that it will be projection of theory and not sound doctrine to add to the list.

The time of this resurrection is set at the end of the tribulation and is no movable.