Learn a lesson from the Great Awakening ...

[Alive]

13 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Thank you for taking the time to show us your beliefs.  Above all, I personally appreciate how this discussion is taking place, in love for each other.

Dear Brother---I only have a moment for now, but will be back after a while--have some chores.

I understand why you are thinking the way you do. Its not a new conversation.

:-) 

What I wrote is, as you say, taking all scripture into consideration and seeing a way that they don't conflict. Remember That Jesus said He wouldn't lose one that the Father gave Him, so that and others of this kind need to be considered--just as you say.

We are arriving at different places in our seeking to understand. I will continue later, God willing.

[OneLight]

1 minute ago, Alive said:

Dear Brother---I only have a moment for now, but will be back after a while--have some chores.

I understand why you are thinking the way you do. Its not a new conversation.

:-) 

What I wrote is, as you say, taking all scripture into consideration and seeing a way that they don't conflict. Remember That Jesus said He wouldn't lose one that the Father gave Him, so that and others of this kind need to be considered--just as you say.

We are arriving at different places in our seeking to understand. I will continue later, God willing.

Shalom Brother,

May I suggest while doing your chores, ponder on the meanings of the words lose (how it retains more than one meaning) and rejection/discard.

Talk again soon.

[Behold]

16 hours ago, OneLight said:

 

Haven't you heard, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."?  That includes parables and symbolic verses, if one wants to dig deep enough to understand.

The sin is in the man, as you very well know.  Are we physically in Christ or spiritually?  Only Jesus was sineless, not man, even when they are saved as man still has the flesh (old man) to contend with until they die and shed the flesh.

God have mercy.  You asking this again?  Don't you read my replies to you, or do you just skim over them trying to find fault in my words?

What is the reason for repentance if it is not to have unrighteousness removed and sins forgiven?

Everyone, including you, has a choice every time they am faced with sin, do they give into sin or do they obey Gods instruction? If you do find yourself in sin, the Holy Spirit will convict you and a heart of flesh will repent, asking for forgiveness, as scripture states.   Sin has a way of hardening a heart, and after awhile, the heart becomes so hard it refuse to listen to the Holy Spirit any more and goes on its prideful arrogant way.

 

 Are we physically in Christ or spiritually?  Only Jesus was sineless, not man

-------

WE are made sinless.   This is why we are the "righteousness of God, in Christ.

The part of you, that you think is a sinner, God sees as DEAD on the Cross.

When you bring your mind into alignment with God's perspective, then you'll understand that you are not a sinner.

You are a Saint...the Bride.....the Temple of the Holy Spirit.... Born again.....New Creation in Christ... Brethren..

Thats what you are.    You are...."As Christ is , so are the born again, in this World"

 

,""""" even when they are saved as man still has the flesh (old man) to contend with until they die and shed the flesh.""""""""

 

Yes, many are unfortunately taught this , and that is why they live the same sinning life after they are saved, as they lived before they were saved, as you are explaining.

But that is NOT real Christianity.  That is self righteousness, trying to live up to the wrong misunderstanding of what it actually means to BE Saved.

Read this verse. ...

Paul said in Galatians...  "If/When we walk in the Spirit, YOU WILL NOT SIN"....."you will not commit deeds of the Flesh".

So, you are committing them then repenting of them, and that is because you are not obeying that Verse.  That verse says you WILL NOT Sin.

Paul says..that Christ gives us the VICTORY...over our sinning.....over the Power of sin.  "Sin SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU, BECAUSE You are not under the Law, you are under GRACE....... So, a person who is sinning and repenting, is under the dominion of the LAW.

Reader, If you believe wrong and that is why you do not obey those verses. 

 

''''''What is the reason for repentance if it is not to have unrighteousness removed and sins forgiven?''''

 

Reader, you are not supposed to be sinning.  "Sin shall not have dominion over you".   "if you walk in the Spirit you will not sin"..."you will not commit works of the Flesh".

You are to understand that Jesus has your sin because He BECAME your sin....= That is "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.""

You have been taught that you have your sin, ...when in fact, Jesus has them, or you are not born again.

Listen, we are not to exist in the bondage of sinning, confessing and repenting.....That is not Christianity, that is Self Effort RELIGION.

Christianity: " is the GRACE OF GOD, that redeems your mind from the consciousness of sin, which is the empowerment to no longer sin.

THIS IS to = WALK IN THE SPIRIT.......And as Paul told you..."If you walk in the Spirit (Right Believing) You will not SIN"..  "commit deeds of the Flesh".

And what are those deeds of the flesh, that you wont do , iF YOU WALK IN THE SPIRIT ???  

Galatians 5:19-21.  19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH... are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings

 

@OneLight... Do you see all that "FLESH"......those are "sin" as you define them....and you dont have to REPENT of doing them, if you are not doing them.

And as Paul told you....If you walk in the SPIRIT, you will not be doing them.........So, you wont be repenting.

Thats the answer, that you have to find for yourself.

 

""""""""Everyone, including you, has a choice every time they am faced with sin,""""""

 

Once again, you are not talking about Christianity, you are talking about how it is if you are not saved, or how it is, if you have no understanding of how to be free of the carnal mind that is in control of you if you are walking in the flesh., "under the dominion of sin"

See, you just defined the MIND of the Flesh..."im think about sinning, so i sin again"....That is the MIND of the Flesh...That is the carnal mind.  You are walking in it, so that is why you only behave that way.. = sin and repent.

When you get out of that mind of the flesh, by RIGHT BELIEVING, you will then rest in the Grace of God which keeps you in perfect Peace With God AT ALL TIMES.  And when you exist there, in your MIND,  because your mind is renewed, = you are walking in the Light because you are walking in the Spirit.

And once you live there....once you stay there in your FAITH, in your right beliving, then you are believing RIght, and you will live Right, and then all that useless repenting and confessing will not be a part of your Life in Christ.

You have to get there.

Here is the issue with 99% of Christians...

Hebrews 6:1.  : ""Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of REPENTING from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God"...

See that?

Thats talking about a Christian who is stuck in 1st Grade.  Stuck in 1st Gear.... They are still in the Crib.  They are still on the bottle.  They are still trying to learn how to stand up, and not crawl.. As is explained by the verse as  believers who are "repenting from dead works".... sinning, confessing, falling, sinning, confessing, repenting.... 

We are NOT TO EXIST THERE.

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Behold

[JustPassingThru]

@OneLight

Just one question, ...have you ever worked in the grape fields?

Remember Steinbeck's book that we had to read in High School, "Grapes of Wrath," with the location being Weedpatch, CA?

Well, for two summer vacations I worked in those very same vineyards...

Granted the difference between Biblical times when Jesus used this illustration in His Parable and the methods of "suspending" the vines above ground is different, ...but the work and the reasons are the same.

The trunk will have as many as 8-10 branches on each side, ...some produce grapes and some do not, ...at the end of the season they go through the vineyards and cut the branches way back to about two feet or less on each side of the trunk. That means the next season the branches will grow out to 5-6 feet on both sides, ...some of the branches are "old" stock from many years and some are "new" branches. In June we went through fields and "counted" five bunches of grapes on both sides of the trunk that were the largest, the rest of the branches especially the "new" branches were cut off to allow the ten bunches of grapes that were left to grow and become very large, ...like you see in the grocery stores.

Towards the end of June, ...we High School boys stopped the "trimming" and went back to collect the "dry" branches that had been cut off and took them to be burned. 

 

 

John 15 is NOT about "who" will be in Heaven, ...it's an metaphor Jesus used that all the people understood, about producing the "best" fruit.

Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.  John 15:4

I can look back over my time of walking with my Lord and "see" the times He has trimmed useless projects that "I" thought "I" was doing for Him, ...but each time He showed me, "Not by might or by power, ...but by My Spirit." 

The "trimming" didn't cause me to lose my Salvation, ...no, ...it made me more "fruitful."  

Exactly like we did back in the summer of '65 and '66, ...the farmer didn't "lose" any profit from his grapes, ...he made more than if the"trimming" hadn't been done...

 

Chapter 15 follows chapter 14 and in chapter 14 Jesus is teaching His "disciples" and telling them, "HE" is the Way the Truth and the Life and promising them His Father will give them the Holy Spirit, ...so we are back to what I have previously said, ...if Jesus is teaching a born again, Spirit filled, child of God in chapter 15, ...can lose their Salvation, ...then the Holy Spirit goes with them into the Lake of Fire, ...or Jesus' promise of the Holy Spirit never leaving them is a lie and that makes Jesus a liar! 

 

The "correct" exegesis of the first six verses is: 

Verses 1-5 are a metaphor about growing grapes.

Verse 6 is a simile about people, ...not grapes.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as (or like a grape ) a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

 

 

Now, back to what I have previously asked you that you seem to be side-stepping, ...you have stated that the death of Jesus on the Cross did NOT pay for the sins that I commit in the flesh today, ...so please  gives us the Bible verse that authenticates what you are saying, ...or otherwise it is just your opinion.  Acts17:11

Edited May 18, 2020 by JustPassingThru

[Alive]

14 minutes ago, JustPassingThru said:

@OneLight

Just one question, ...have you ever worked in the grape fields?

Remember Steinbeck's book that we had to read in High School, "Grapes of Wrath," with the location being Weedpatch, CA?

Well, for two summer vacations I worked in those very same vineyards...

Granted the difference between Biblical times when Jesus used this illustration in His Parable and the methods of "suspending" the vines above ground is different, ...but the work and the reasons are the same.

The trunk will have as many as 8-10 branches on each side, ...some produce grapes and some do not, ...at the end of the season they go through the vineyards and cut the branches way back to about two feet or less on each side of the trunk. That means the next season the branches will grow out to 5-6 feet on both sides, ...some of the branches are "old" stock from many years and some are "new" branches. In June we went through fields and "counted" five bunches of grapes on both sides of the trunk that were the largest, the rest of the branches especially the "new" branches were cut off to allow the ten bunches of grapes that were left to grow and become very large, ...like you see in the grocery stores.

Towards the end of June, ...we High School boys stopped the "trimming" and went back to collect the "dry" branches that had been cut off and took them to be burned. 

 

 

John 15 is NOT about "who" will be in Heaven, ...it's an metaphor Jesus used that all the people understood, about producing the "best" fruit.

Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.  John 15:4

I can look back over my time of walking with my Lord and "see" the times He has trimmed useless projects that "I" thought "I" was doing for Him, ...but each time He showed me, "Not by might or by power, ...but by My Spirit." 

The "trimming" didn't cause me to lose my Salvation, ...no, ...it made me more "fruitful."  

Exactly like we did back in the summer of '65 and '66, ...the farmer didn't "lose" any profit from his grapes, ...he made more than if the"trimming" hadn't been done...

 

Chapter 15 follows chapter 14 and in chapter 14 Jesus is teaching His "disciples" and telling them, "HE" is the Way the Truth and the Life and promising them His Father will give them the Holy Spirit, ...so we are back to what I have previously said, ...if Jesus is teaching a born again, Spirit filled, child of God in chapter 15, ...can lose their Salvation, ...then the Holy Spirit goes with them into the Lake of Fire, ...or Jesus' promise of the Holy Spirit never leaving them is a lie and that makes Jesus a liar! 

 

The "correct" exegesis of the first six verses is: 

Verses 1-5 are a metaphor about growing grapes.

Verse 6 is a simile about people, ...not grapes.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as (or like a grape ) a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Exactly like we did back in the summer of '65 and '66, ...the farmer didn't "lose" any profit from his grapes, ...he made more than if the"trimming" hadn't been done

 

Now, back to what I have previously asked you that you seem to be side-stepping, ...you have stated that the death of Jesus on the Cross did NOT pay for the sins that I commit in the flesh today, ...so please  gives us the Bible verse that authenticates what you are saying, ...or otherwise it is just your opinion.  Acts17:11

Thank you brother for helping to 'flesh out' what I left out.

:-)

It has been a bunch of decades since I have apologized for some of this stuff...I asked the Lord to help me, because I felt not up to the task.

He gave me that bit and you obviously added to it. In my mind, this is multiple members of the Body functioning under the Head.

PTL

[OneLight]

8 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

@OneLight

Just one question, ...have you ever worked in the grape fields?

Remember Steinbeck's book that we had to read in High School, "Grapes of Wrath," with the location being Weedpatch, CA?

Well, for two summer vacations I worked in those very same vineyards...

Granted the difference between Biblical times when Jesus used this illustration in His Parable and the methods of "suspending" the vines above ground is different, ...but the work and the reasons are the same.

The trunk will have as many as 8-10 branches on each side, ...some produce grapes and some do not, ...at the end of the season they go through the vineyards and cut the branches way back to about two feet or less on each side of the trunk. That means the next season the branches will grow out to 5-6 feet on both sides, ...some of the branches are "old" stock from many years and some are "new" branches. In June we went through fields and "counted" five bunches of grapes on both sides of the trunk that were the largest, the rest of the branches especially the "new" branches were cut off to allow the ten bunches of grapes that were left to grow and become very large, ...like you see in the grocery stores.

Towards the end of June, ...we High School boys stopped the "trimming" and went back to collect the "dry" branches that had been cut off and took them to be burned. 

Interesting work.  As there are nor vineyards in New Hampshire, no, I have not personally worded in one, though my Grandparents had some vines to grow grapes for making wine when I was younger, so the how to is not completely lost.

Quote

 

John 15 is NOT about "who" will be in Heaven, ...it's an metaphor Jesus used that all the people understood, about producing the "best" fruit.

Lets look at why the pruning process takes place.  Using your example, you get the best results when you hard prune a vine, leaving only a little of the branch left.  The vinedresser is trying to get the branch to produce more fruit.  Jesus, on the other hand, speaks about a branch that bears no fruit, not anything like a branch that bears little fruit.  These are dead branches that cannot be revived.  I remember my grandparents doing just that, pruning back and removing branches that failed to produce anything at all.  They are cut off for good, so yes, Jesus is speaking about who will not make it to heaven. 

Quote

Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.  John 15:4

I can look back over my time of walking with my Lord and "see" the times He has trimmed useless projects that "I" thought "I" was doing for Him, ...but each time He showed me, "Not by might or by power, ...but by My Spirit." 

The "trimming" didn't cause me to lose my Salvation, ...no, ...it made me more "fruitful."  

Exactly like we did back in the summer of '65 and '66, ...the farmer didn't "lose" any profit from his grapes, ...he made more than if the"trimming" hadn't been done...

This is only speaking of pruning what is being fruitful.

Quote

Chapter 15 follows chapter 14 and in chapter 14 Jesus is teaching His "disciples" and telling them, "HE" is the Way the Truth and the Life and promising them His Father will give them the Holy Spirit, ...so we are back to what I have previously said, ...if Jesus is teaching a born again, Spirit filled, child of God in chapter 15, ...can lose their Salvation, ...then the Holy Spirit goes with them into the Lake of Fire, ...or Jesus' promise of the Holy Spirit never leaving them is a lie and that makes Jesus a liar! 

"Lose", such a poor word to describe an action as it has too many meaning.  When someone rejects something they don't lose it, they reject, refuse, discard, abandon, or dispose of it.  It's not lost as what happens when you accidentally misplace your keys.  It is an intentional action.   This is why I asked Alive to consider the word lose as it has more than one meaning.  Please consider that if I lose my keys, I don't know where they are.  It was not done intentionally, but accidentally.  If I throw my keys over a cliff, I rejected keeping them in my presence, therefore, losing possession of them.  Can you see how just by saying someone will lose their salvation can have more than one meaning, making it a bad choice of words. 

Jesus will not misplace anyone, nor can any outside influence, no matter what that influence is, take anyone out of His hands, so Jesus will not lose them.  Yet, if a person decides to disobey, fully rejecting His leading and continues to disobey, then Jesus did not lose this person, they rejected His salvation, placing the responsibility on them, not Jesus or anyone one else, for that matter.

The same can be said about you saying that the Holy Spirit leaving a person.  He will never leave a person on His own account, but what you fail to address is if someone can reject Him enough for Him to be detached involuntarily.

Just as Jesus will never force someone to accept His salvation, for love does not act rudely nor does it seek it's own, Jesus will also never remain in a person if they no longer want Him.

This same action of rejection or refusal to obey is seen when someone does not bear fruit, abide in Christ, or remain in Him.  Being taken away, cut off and discarded, or even having their names removed from the Book of Life is due to the choice of the person and the responsibility of their action are on them.

Sorry, but asking if the Holy Spirit will be cast into the Lake of Fire is absurd. 

Quote

The "correct" exegesis of the first six verses is: 

Verses 1-5 are a metaphor about growing grapes.

Verse 6 is a simile about people, ...not grapes.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as (or like a grape ) a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

 

 

Now, back to what I have previously asked you that you seem to be side-stepping, ...you have stated that the death of Jesus on the Cross did NOT pay for the sins that I commit in the flesh today, ...so please  gives us the Bible verse that authenticates what you are saying, ...or otherwise it is just your opinion.  Acts17:11

As for your last question, look back as I did answer it.  I beleive the conversation begane on page 9 and moved to page 10.

 

Addition:

I decided to edit this reply in stead of creating another post.  Allow me to ask either of you what you think the purpose of Jesus' words are in John 15:1-8 if not to warn people of not bearing fruit, resulting in being cast away, gathered, put in a fire and burnt - totally destroyed?

Edited May 19, 2020 by OneLight
addition

[JustPassingThru]

11 hours ago, OneLight said:

These are dead branches that cannot be revived.

Friend, ...it's really hard to take you seriously when you just make up things as you go.

Really, ...dead branches...

Where did you get that???

Here's what Jesus said:

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. John 15:1

I am, ...egō, ...eimi, ...the Divine Name pronounced to Moses at the burning bush, ...Jesus is "the" vine, ...how can anyone possible think or believe that anything "dead" could "exist" in Jesus???

But you said it, ...here's the verse:

Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.   John 15:2

How anyone can twist that around to mean "dead" is beyond me???

Like I said, ...we trimmed the "new" branches because they "wouldn't" bear any fruit that year, ...maybe the next year or the year after, ...they "sprouted" to replace the old branches that had stopped producing, ...surly you saw your grandparents vines and they trimmed the old branches that had stopped producing.

11 hours ago, OneLight said:

As for your last question, look back as I did answer it.  I beleive the conversation begane on page 9 and moved to page 10.

Yes you did answer it with your "opinion," I'm not interested in your "opinion," ...what I asked you was to "prove" what you are saying with textual proof, ...a verse or verses from the Bible, ...maybe you have forgot, ...here's the question again.

Since you are saying the death of Jesus on the Cross was not sufficient to pardon my sins today, 

...prove it by showing me a verse from the Scriptures...

 

 

 

[OneLight]

6 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

Friend, ...it's really hard to take you seriously when you just make up things as you go.

Really, ...dead branches...

Where did you get that???

Interesting opening statement, Brother.  Because you don't see what I see you accuse me of making things up?   My concern for you is how and why you don't see this?

• Branch being prunes - live branches bearing fruit, pruned to bear more fruit.
• Branch not bearing any fruit - dead branch that no longer abides in Christ.

Someone who is born again is said to be in Christ and Christ in Him, becoming part of the vine, which is Christ.  We both see this.  The branches that bear fruit (good works) do so through faith, which produces maturity, and the combination of faith and maturity produces fruit.  If you need scripture to show you this, I can provide it.  Does it not take faith to be in Christ?  So, why does Jesus say some branches do not bear fruit (good works) (v2) and no longer abide in Him (v6)?   The faith they once had is no longer alive, but dead (James 2).  It really is that plain and simple.

Quote

Here's what Jesus said:

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. John 15:1

I am, ...egō, ...eimi, ...the Divine Name pronounced to Moses at the burning bush, ...Jesus is "the" vine, ...how can anyone possible think or believe that anything "dead" could "exist" in Jesus???

But you said it, ...here's the verse:

Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.   John 15:2

How anyone can twist that around to mean "dead" is beyond me???

Again, because you do not see the truth in front of you, you accuse me of twisting scripture?   Brother, ask yourself why the Father would remove someone in Christ that is dead it the person was not dead?  Would He not just prune them like the other branches?  Having dead faith is not the fault of Jesus, and the Father sees this - it is the fault of the branch.  Did Jesus "lose" them?  No, the Father removed them for not abiding in Jesus.  Those who do not bear fruit and abide in Jesus are cast out, gathered, thrown in the fire and burned.  Just like the pruned part of the branch that bears fruit, the part pruned off is no longer any good to God and is also gathered, caste into the fire and burned.  Bother, the pruned part of the branch, and the branch that bears no fruit at all, are no longer part of the vine.

Quote

Like I said, ...we trimmed the "new" branches because they "wouldn't" bear any fruit that year, ...maybe the next year or the year after, ...they "sprouted" to replace the old branches that had stopped producing, ...surly you saw your grandparents vines and they trimmed the old branches that had stopped producing.

How does one bear fruit?  Like the "new" branches that are not mature enough to bear fruit, so are the "new" in Christ - not mature enough and need special care.  God knows this and prunes them so they will bear fruit, which comes with maturity in Him.  Yet, not every branch is brand new.  These more mature branches are not treated the same.  Those branches that were once mature enough to bear fruit has allowed themselves to no longer abide in Him, therefore, not bearing any fruit any longer: "Abide in Me, and I in you.  As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me." (v4)  Notice the next two verses and how they fit so nicely with verse 4, confirming the message being spoken to us: "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.  If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."  Jesus seems to be repeating Himself here.  Why?  Because it is something He wants to drive home to every reader.

Tell me, is it because of your OSAS filter that you cannot see the truth of the whole passage?

Quote

Yes you did answer it with your "opinion," I'm not interested in your "opinion," ...what I asked you was to "prove" what you are saying with textual proof, ...a verse or verses from the Bible, ...maybe you have forgot, ...here's the question again.

Since you are saying the death of Jesus on the Cross was not sufficient to pardon my sins today, 

...prove it by showing me a verse from the Scriptures...

You are now doing the very same thing other OSAS believers do - you took my words, reworded them to what you think I am saying instead of taking them at face value, then posting your version you ended up with as if they were the words I originally spoke.  Don't do this as I don't do this to you.  If your only defense is to reword my words to bolster your argument, it is best to not continue with you as I would be required to defend a lie created by you to "show me my error".

Let me ask again, what is the purpose of the words Jesus spoke if not to encourage those who bear fruit and warn those who do not bear fruit, meaning they no longer abide in Christ?

Edited May 19, 2020 by OneLight
Spelling

[Behold]

39 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 

Tell me, is it because of your OSAS filter that you cannot see the truth of the whole passage?

 

He sees it.   You don't.

And. @OneLight... thanks again,  for always trying to turn every Thread you are on, into your hatefilled rant against "OSAS",, while you preach and preach that God's Children can go to the Lake of Fire with Jesus and the Holy Spirit in them.

I guess you have nothing better to do on a Christian Forum.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Behold

[JustPassingThru]

2 hours ago, OneLight said:

Interesting opening statement, Brother.  Because you don't see what I see you accuse me of making things up?   My concern for you is how and why you don't see this?

• Branch being prunes - live branches bearing fruit, pruned to bear more fruit.
• Branch not bearing any fruit - dead branch that no longer abides in Christ.

Opening statement???

Does that mean you haven't "read" what I've said before???

You're worried about why "I" don't "see" what you are saying, ...because it's not Scriptural...

Show you your error, ...okay, ...but will you "receive" it???

 

Here, ...let's keep it real simple...

You keep talking about "dead" branches, ...but you don't have any Scriptural authority to be saying that, ...you are just "twisting" Scripture to "fit" what you are making up.

Here's "your" dead branch verse in John 15:2:

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

You mistakenly assume "beareth not fruit " means dead, ...but that is not what "Jesus" is saying, ...what He is saying is, a branch that "continually" (that is the verb tense in the Greek), does not "bear" (verb) fruit, which means it's "continually" alive, ...what does He say His Father will do with that branch (?), ...He taketh away:, ...which those three words in our English Bible is just one word that Jesus spoke,  airō, and it means to "lift up," ...His Father is "continually" lifting up!   

Voilà, ...your error, ...do "you" see it???

So here's the problem you have, you twist this verse to say the "branch" is dead so it's cut off and thrown into the fire to be burned...

Jesus said, ...paraphrased, so that it can be understood, ...one of "My" branches that is "continually" not bearing fruit, ...My Father will "continually" be lifting up so that it "will" bear fruit.

The glaring difference between your "opinion" and the Truth is,

...you say the Father will take a live branch that is not bearing fruit (one of those who have been redeemed, washed by the Blood of Jesus and given to Him), ...cut it off that "live" branch, ...who "you" say is dead, ...and and throw that saint into the Lake of Fire!

Where Jesus says the Father will take that same redeemed, washed in His Blood and given to Him saint, ...if they make a mistake, walking in the flesh,  ...will, ...in His Agape "Love," lift His child up into His arms and gently, lovingly teach them the correct way so that they can bear much fruit...

There are many here at Worthy, ...myself included, ...who have experienced the loving touch of our Heavenly Father and has done to us exactly as I have described, ...have you never experienced this in your walk with the Lord???

 

So, along with that, ...you need to authenticate your "opinions" with Scripture, ...where is the "dead" branch verse, ...including the verse and/or verses that prove the death of Jesus on the Cross was not "sufficient" to pay for my sins today.

 

Please, stop with the diatribe and just post some verses that authenticate your "opinions."

Edited May 19, 2020 by JustPassingThru