Learn a lesson from the Great Awakening ...

[OneLight]

2 hours ago, Behold said:

A few days ago, you lied to me. On this forum.    You stated that you had previously posted verses or a verse that you say proves that Jesus leaves the body and Spirit of a Born again Christian.

That is a bold face lie.  What I did say is those in Him that do not bear fruit God will remove, cast into a fire, and burn. (John 15) I also said  that if someone does not continue in Him, he will be cut off.  (Romans 11)  I also said that Jesus warned those who do not repent that they will be either removed from their place, He will fight against them with the sword of His mouth, if they do not repent from following Jezebel they will suffer great tribulation and be killed (Rev 2), if they do not repent their names will be blotted out of the Book of Life, and that if they do not repent from being lukewarm, Jesus will vomit them out of His mouth (Rev 3). 

You see, Behold, your statement is a perfect example of how you create a lie from the words people say just to boost your own prideful self and silence truth.   I did point to scripture to show you the truth, which you hardly refute the scripture.  Instead you cut out scripture for the quote and twist peoples words so you can stand on your soapbox and spout lies about what they.  I will give you this, you did, for a very short time, ask for clarification when someone said something you saw as wrong, but that was very short lived.  You should return to doing so instead of lying about what others say.

2 hours ago, Behold said:

The thing is, i only asked you to do that, that very day, and nowhere in any post had you done this...  I then asked you to repost the verse, and you then started doing, what you continue to do, even till today.

There are many ways to ask the same question.  You, of all people, should know that.  I finally have decided to post the verses I said to you many days ago.  They are above in this reply to you.  Will you search our past conversations to find out what I said is try and offer the real truth, or will you still continue to claim I never posted those verses?  Will I see honesty in your words or will I only hear crickets?

2 hours ago, Behold said:

You DID NOT EVER post a verse, or verse. Yet you told me you did.

 Since that time.. You have not pm'd me about this to resolve it.  You have also not acknowledged your accountability, here..

You really have to be kidding here.  You expect me to pm you?  You don't speak the truth in public, why in Gods name should I ever expect you to do so in private?  As for accountability, here I am - I have nothing to hide.

2 hours ago, Behold said:

You keep playing word games about "love" instead, or you just don't even acknowledge what you've done.

So, you are correct about being held responsible, as there is no distancing yourself from this issue.

 

What words games have I played?  I quote scripture and speak about how I see it being applied.  However, who is it that compared love to a bumper sticker from the 60's?

I am not trying to distance myself from any issue to show the truth, just from people who continue to lie and twist words.  The truth will always stand.

[OneLight]

20 minutes ago, Behold said:

Actually Jesus is "held accountable" for all our Sin, on the Cross, which is why we will never be held accountable for them in HEAVEN.

God can't judge TWICE = sin

What happens to a born again person who sins?  Well, you reap what you sow.  CONSEQUENCES...   And if you exist in sin, if you live in sin, then Hebrews 12:6 is going to run over you, and resolve it.....if possible.

It can be that'll you'll die if you continue living in the flesh, committing deeds of the Flesh .. Paul says in Romans 8:13 "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die"

So, even tho you sin has been forgiven, AS Christ on the Cross, .....If you backslide, you will be corrected.   If you won't be corrected, then what can find you can be worse then just being corrected.

You are correct in that God will never hold someone accountable for sins they repented of.  It does please me to see that you are acknowledging that even born again believers can, and do, sin,  When we accepted the salvation from God and repented of our sins, we repented for the sine we committed, not of future sins as they had not happened yet.  If we do repent of them, they will be forgiven. 

As for consequences, some of these consequences you refuse to acknowledge. as in being cut off the vine or olive tree if the branch does not continue in Him where they are thrown into a fire and burned, or the consequences spoken by Jesus in Revelation 2-3.  Cherry picking scripture and building a theology upon them is not building a theology on the truth.  If it appears that scripture contradicts itself, more work needs to be done in order to find the truth as scripture does not contradict itself, man contradicts scripture.

 

[Behold]

1 minute ago, OneLight said:

You are correct in that God will never hold someone accountable for sins they repented of.

 

God does not hold any born again person accountable for any Sin that Jesus has died for on the Cross.   That would be all of them.

Thats what i said....... Do NOT misquote me.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Behold

[Alive]

53 minutes ago, OneLight said:

There will be no accuser pointing an evil, lying finger at anyone.   Everything we have done is written in books.  The only thing the accuser can do is twist Gods words to deceive people, as he did with Eve.  He is doing the same with you if you think you can do whatever you want, say anything you want, and not be held responsible.  Every book of the bible has warning spoken to believers about being obedient, sinning and repenting from any sin they commit.  Do you really think God would waste His time placing these warnings and instructions in His word to us if it were not true?  Since they are there, written to us through the Holy Spirit, it appears that you have swallowed a lie, hook, line and sinker.  To say it doesn't apply to you is to accept a lie straight out of hell. 

We are all be held accountable for how we lived, what we said, and what we did or did not do.  IF any wrong we committed was repented from, it will be forgiven.  Any wrong we do not repent from we will be held accountable. Obedience and repentance go hand in hand, helping us all the way to the finish line. 

I understand what you are saying here, but if I may add a bit for what may perhaps bring some clarity for some.

Repentance is at its root a change of heart and mind and this is important in our walk with the Lord each day as He touches a thing in our lives that isn't pleasing to Him or simply not good for us physically or spiritually. We all fall short in many ways, and much of that-- we are not always even aware of--at any given moment in time. There may be a thing that involves a 'need' for a change of mind, but that we aren't yet aware of--maybe the Lord hasn't yet 'touched' that thing, as discipleship is a long process--a procession down a path. So, if we haven't actively 'repented' of a thing that I am referring to, then how can we be held accountable? Of course we aren't--so this is a good practical way of understanding how the Blood of Christ is always and forever efficacious for us that are His children.

This comes around to God being/taking responsibility for His children through the work of the Son. He knows that we still have these earthen vessels and that we come to Him with minds not yet fully renewed and yet we have access to the throne with boldness. Without the imputed Righteousness of Christ and the Blood that makes us pure white, this could not be.

God has taken the responsibility for our ongoing short comings and made a very real provision---'In Christ'.

Even if I am in a state or season of rebellion and seeking my own desires, I am still a son--and the Blood is still active in the same way. That doesn't change.

My mind needs to come around to be in line with God's Purpose, but I am still a son and the once for all shed Blood is still active---God takes responsibility. He is always faithful to His own Word.

We have entered into a contact by faith once and for all and that agreement was sealed by the Holy Spirit. We had Faith and were born again---from that point on, our Father has responsibility to be Faithful and can never lose one of His sons. "We are become the Righteousness of God 'In Christ'. We can interpret that as saying--We are the Righteousness of God "because" we are in Christ--of the Father. He put us there.

So regardless of how we are 'doing' at any given time in our lives after being born again, when our Father looks at us, He sees Christ.

 

 

[OneLight]

7 minutes ago, Behold said:

God does not hold any born again person accountable for any Sin that Jesus has died for on the Cross.   That would be all of them.

Thats what i said....... Do NOT misquote me.

When someone repents, they repent of past sins, not future.  Humility and obedience causes us to repent after salvation of sines committed after salvation.  His forgiveness is there, when we repent.  If that were not true, it would not be said in scripture.

[Behold]

5 minutes ago, OneLight said:

When someone repents, they repent of past sins, not future.  

Christ became our sin on the Cross.  We became His Righteousness.  "the GIFT of Righteousness"

There is no "sin" in Righteousness.  There is no "sin" ..."IN Christ", and we are "in Christ".

And because we are "not under the law"....... Grace ,= our being under this dominion, = re-qualifies our sin as "works of the flesh".   

Paul says....>"use not your Liberty for an occasion to the FLESH".  "The works of the flesh are these"....witchcraft, envy, murder, etc, ect, "..."works of the flesh".

Also, its not by confessing and repenting that we keep ourselves saved, as you teach, but only by the Grace of God thru our Faith =  that God provides the Blood Atonement that saved us and keeps us saved..

Edited May 17, 2020 by Behold

[OneLight]

9 minutes ago, Alive said:

I understand what you are saying here, but if I may add a bit for what may perhaps bring some clarity for some.

Repentance is at its root a change of heart and mind and this is important in our walk with the Lord each day as He touches a thing in our lives that isn't pleasing to Him or simply not good for us physically or spiritually. We all fall short in many ways, and much of that-- we are not always even aware of--at any given moment in time. There may be a thing that involves a 'need' for a change of mind, but that we aren't yet aware of--maybe the Lord hasn't yet 'touched' that thing, as discipleship is a long process--a procession down a path. So, if we haven't actively 'repented' of a thing that I am referring to, then how can we be held accountable? Of course we aren't--so this is a good practical way of understanding how the Blood of Christ is always and forever efficacious for us that are His children.

This comes around to God being/taking responsibility for His children through the work of the Son. He knows that we still have these earthen vessels and that we come to Him with minds not yet fully renewed and yet we have access to the throne with boldness. Without the imputed Righteousness of Christ and the Blood that makes us pure white, this could not be.

God has taken the responsibility for our ongoing short comings and made a very real provision---'In Christ'.

Even if I am in a state or season of rebellion and seeking my own desires, I am still a son--and the Blood is still active in the same way. That doesn't change.

My mind needs to come around to be in line with God's Purpose, but I am still a son and the once for all shed Blood is still active---God takes responsibility. He is always faithful to His own Word.

We have entered into a contact by faith once and for all and that agreement was sealed by the Holy Spirit. We had Faith and were born again---from that point on, our Father has responsibility to be Faithful and can never lose one of His sons. "We are become the Righteousness of God 'In Christ'. We can interpret that as saying--We are the Righteousness of God "because" we are in Christ--of the Father. He put us there.

You don't know how good it is to see a reply like this  Thank you.

Do you believe that a true born again believer can lose their temper and start committing sins as they walk in the flesh for a period?  These are not unknown sins, nor are they sins forgiven at the cross, but sins committed from walking in the flesh.  I do, and I also believe that these need to be repented of and the one repenting needs to humbly ask for forgiveness.  When you repent, you repent of something already done, not of some unknown sin one may or may not commit in the future.

Gods responsibility is seen when He convicts us of our sins through the Holy Spirit.  We do not become puppets when we are saved, we remain humans with a free will.  s He held responsible if the believer refuses to repent?  No, the believe is.  Look at the lessons of the vine and the olive tree - both state that when someone in Christ does not continue in Him, they will be removed, cast into the fire and burned.  Now, did God fail in His responsibility of convicting a person to the point of repenting?  No, God is not responsible for our decision, we are.  He, through His Spirit, continues to work in the lives of those who are His, never giving up until He decides enough is enough, that the pone in Him no longer belongs in Him.  There is no darkness in God, only in man.

[OneLight]

14 minutes ago, Behold said:

Christ became our sin on the Cross.  We became His Righteousness.  "the GIFT of Righteousness"

There is no "sin" in Righteousness.  There is no "sin" ..."IN Christ", and we are "in Christ".

And because we are "not under the law"....... Grace ,= our being under this dominion, = re-qualifies our sin as "works of the flesh".   

Paul says....>"use not your Liberty for an occasion to the FLESH".  "The works of the flesh are these"....witchcraft, envy, murder, etc, ect, "..."works of the flesh".

Also, its not by confessing and repenting that we keep ourselves saved, as you teach, but only by the Grace of God thru our Faith =  that God provides the Blood Atonement that saved us and keeps us saved..

When we accept salvation, the Holy Spirit comes to live with us.  He does not kick out the old man, the old man remains.  The sin committed after salvation is not being committed by the Holy Spirit, but the old man who remains in us until death.  We are forgiven when we repent and ask for forgiveness.  We are forgiven for what we commit in the past, not for what is not yet committed.

Since you have yet addresses John 15 and Romans 11, care to do so now and explain why a person who is IN CHRIST is cut off, cast into a fire, and burned?

[Behold]

5 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I also believe that these need to be repented of and the one repenting needs to humbly ask for forgiveness. 

The issue with what you are teaching, is that you are teaching that repenting is what keeps YOU saved.

So, that rejects the Gospel of Grace.  It rejects the Blood of Jesus.

If you said........"i believe that if i sin, i need to stop, confess, it, repent...., but if i don't, then the Blood of Jesus ..."where sin abounds GRACE MORE ABOUNDS".... The blood of Jesus is always keeping me RIGHTEOUS...........

So, if you taught that, then. you are in line with "justification by faith".

[Behold]

25 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 We are forgiven for what we commit in the past, not for what is not yet committed.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. This is where you have not fully  understood the Blood Atonement.  

See, your salvation understanding is....>"Jesus starts my salvation, and then i must make sure that i dont end up in hell as MY part of the CROSS I'm on.".

And that idea, that type theology, looks like this...... The CROSS + my WORKS, = How im trying to save myself.

And that is a false gospel.. It is exactly what Paul says is "another Gospel"...  Its explained as...>"are you so foolish, having begun in the Spirit that you now made perfect by the Flesh

The ""FLESH"" is self EFFORT...... So, that is what you are teaching........."God saved me.....and now i keep myself saved by doing and doing and confessing and repenting".

So, what has happened, is that your SAVIOR is become YOU...... You are trying to keep yourself saved, by not doing what you say will cause you to be lost..

Your savior , = is all that stuff that you believe you must do or NOT DO... to keep yourself from losing your Salvation.......and all that stuff has replaced Christ, as your personal savior.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Behold