enoob57 Posted May 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,180 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,456 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 25, 2020 The difference of thought here about grace and works is evident... for the works aspect the flesh responds for it can do that... for the s/Spirit aspect it can only be of God ... That which is reliant upon God alone and places the full weight of their being upon His Life and promises; for after all can light beget darkness or darkness light? There was only One Life that was without sin. Only One and it is this Life that finds either acceptance or turns away! While we argue about ingredients nothing changes this truth... nothing! Clearly those reliant upon their works will not be known Matt 7:21-24 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: KJV To be able to perform the will of someone you must know them and their desire... thus the motivation is to extend that Person and Their Way to others... the things created do not carry the eternity of The One's Will of continuance but will in fact cease... how then can that which ceases continue on? The foundation upon that which is built will determine the everlasting... 1 Cor 3:11-18 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; This list of elements we know shall all burn up in God fire of testing... thus if any reliance is placed upon the thing itself it shall suffer loss.... 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. The only thing that does not burn up is that which is fashioned from the Foundation 'Being The Christ' for He has plainly said John 8:23-24 23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. KJV So how can that which is not of Christ be considered necessary for that which is of Christ? It is exactly this the fire of God's testing will reveal... 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted May 25, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Willa said: No, we can't love our neighbors or our enemies without Jesus living in us i.e.being born again. That is the first thing God showed me in Scripture and in life. I lacked love. For that matter, Do I truly love God as He loves us? Do I really lay down my life for my friends, even those who believe they are Christians but refuse to believe the truth of Scripture? I weep for them and pray for them. Only God can save them from their deception. I think you need to go back a few posts, and read where they said that 'justification" does not mean anything.. So that is why i was talking to this person about being born again. Edited May 25, 2020 by Behold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted May 25, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, luigi said: By my understanding, our atonement through the Lord's sacrifice, grants us the grace so that should we so choose we are then no longer bound to our carnal natures to continue sinning. Prior to accepting the Lord's atonement, we had no option to leave our sin, and were strictly bound to continue sinning. I will continue to strive for this goal of being in the Lord who is Spirit, while I continue to leave my carnal inclinations, which is sin, behind me. The two cannot be together (Romans 8:5-6). If, however, I should choose to continue going after my flesh, the outcome according to the Word is then death, which I understand to mean spiritual death. Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Yes. Resting in the peace of God, in the Grace of God, allows us to lose our sin consciousness. However, because you can't stop being "in Chrsit" and because God does not charge you with your sin, Romans 4:8 (works of the Flesh), then there is no "spiritual death", as you have already PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE... John 5:24 Edited May 25, 2020 by Behold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Behold Posted May 25, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 7 Topic Count: 87 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,795 Content Per Day: 1.34 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 3 Joined: 07/30/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, OneLight said: The devil has many more tricks up his sleeve than just attacking the cross. The worst thing The Devil can do through a believer is to cause them to try to put real born again Christians under the bondage of SELF EFFORT to keep themselves Saved. This is how the Devil uses a deceived "believer" to defy the Grace of God. So, when you find one of these trying to replace "the Finished WORK of Jesus on the Cross", with Personal WORKS to try to do what only Christ on the Cross can do, then you've found a deceived believer. These people are incredibly harmful to other believers because they are relentless in their carnal desire put a Christian under bondage to "keeping themselves saved". They are relentless in their carnal desire to try to cause a believer to believe that they can lose their salvation. Edited May 25, 2020 by Behold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted May 25, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.88 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 hours ago, luigi said: I guess we shall then differ in opinion on what the gospel of Christ is, which I believe to be to Love God and my neighbor. Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? I request humbly that you get an easy to read Bible, and read the first three chapters of Romans...then you can skip to chapter 10 and find out how one gets saved ......Micah 6:8 is great.....but is NOT the Plan Of Salvation....it does not address the Sin Issue—- God Bless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted May 25, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,656 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 25, 2020 13 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: No worries...this kind which you call deception and which is not a deception...in any case this state of being cannot be use by Satan to say this one because of this kind of ...is mind..and If dies this way I can take him/her to Hell, Ha!Ha! Jesus will say eat his dust, that's the only thing of him is not going to Heaven.... Why do you not rejoys together with the Angels in Heaven because his/her names are written in the book of the slain Lamb.... No believer in Jesus as the Christ is going to Hell because they did not learn how to love!!! When haters goes to Heaven because they believe Jesus is the Christ... They will tell you that...Jesus has many kind of children....like Jacob had many kind of sheep... And the mix up ones were his strength... And Laban could not take them from him.... My close friend since middle school said the doesn't understand the Bible; she believes it is written by men and not inspired by the Holy Spirit and she only likes Peter's books; she hates Paul because she thinks he hates women; she doesn't believe the words of Christ "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me." She believes that all roads lead to heaven. She is full of occult beliefs and practices and prays to her dead parents and thinks they talk to her. She used to go to tekwondo camps in which she hypnotized herself; she said one time she couldn't bring herself out of her trance. She is totally controlled by fear. This is the person I was referring to when I spoke of her being deceived. I suspect that she is not born again at this point and the more she tells me about her beliefs the more convinced I become. Having witnessed to her for years, she doesn't seem to retain any of it as though the seed falls on hard ground and satan snatches it away. She cannot even utter the words: Jesus is Lord". When we were baptized in 1960 she said she wanted to be a Christian because God is lonely. That was her confession of faith! So you think I shouldn't worry and she is not deceived? You think her name is written in the book of life? You think she is another kind of sheep who is going to heaven even though she only wants Jesus as Savior so she won't go to hell but she refuses to follow Him as Lord; instead she believes people get a chance to believe in Jesus after they die, but is is a Jesus of her own creation and she rejects the Jesus of the Bible. She believes in some type of reincarnation. I still believe she is deceived. God's love is a gift of the Spirit that a person cannot possess if they are not born again. They may have a worldly friendship type of love--phileo--but not agape love which is a gift of compassionate, merciful undeserved grace filled self sacrificing forgiveness. The peace of God also differs from the world's peace. Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted May 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,767 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 317 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 26, 2020 19 hours ago, Behold said: Yes. Resting in the peace of God, in the Grace of God, allows us to lose our sin consciousness. However, because you can't stop being "in Chrsit" and because God does not charge you with your sin, Romans 4:8 (works of the Flesh), then there is no "spiritual death", as you have already PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE... John 5:24 To hear Christ's Word and believe on Him that sent Him, is to believe in Christ's gospel. You have to believe in all the Word, and not just bits and pieces, that many individuals take out of context in order to say something that other scriptures contradict. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted May 26, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 57 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,767 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 317 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted May 26, 2020 17 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said: I request humbly that you get an easy to read Bible, and read the first three chapters of Romans...then you can skip to chapter 10 and find out how one gets saved ......Micah 6:8 is great.....but is NOT the Plan Of Salvation....it does not address the Sin Issue—- God Bless... God who is love, fulfills the whole law, and thereby fully addresses the sin issue. Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 26, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, Willa said: My close friend since middle school said the doesn't understand the Bible; she believes it is written by men and not inspired by the Holy Spirit and she only likes Peter's books; she hates Paul because she thinks he hates women; a) most of us we want to know more and along the way we learn to correct our selves.. This is ok...Jesus found the disciples with a lot of distorted thinking and some good also...having both....till he dies in some areas they refuse to change...even when Jesus was on the Cross and they sow that he never complain or threatening... Even when Jesus was saying good buy to them...they could not understand.... b) this is the truth...men wrote the bible...besides the ten commandments and the Covenant of Sinai where God spoke to Moses in front of all the people...and a few other times....there was only the prophets and God no other witnesses...later when things happened then it's easy to say it was God's word.... Please when I said God's word it has nothing to do with "the "word" as in John one....yes the truths in the bible are from God revealed to us...Jesus spoke the truth...he had God as his Judge....as he grew up he was instructed in the truth by God... And his Spirit...as we see beginning at the baptism...God gave him his Spirit to guide him in his mission... -so far we may not agree in all...and in what we agree we may see them according to our understanding at this time...due to be evolved as we go along... c) Peter...Paul...they had to deal with cultures...starting with their own...their neighbors and eventually the many cultures in the Gentile Nations..... Cultures are for people...and God had given a culture to the 12 tribes.. Jesus lived within one culture and he is not against cultures...he did not say ....change the cultures of people and then preach the Gospel only to those who change their culture.... What Paul said about culture "forget about that"...take what is good...he also said...there is not male or female towards God....he rewards any one who seeks him. Very broad window....everyone includes everyone as they are... Quote she doesn't believe the words of Christ "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Me." She believes that all roads lead to heaven. This is very common among many people...it may and may not have a reason that many prevalent Christians...judge everyone to Hell...unless they are like them....that's how she sees you...and she tries to correct you... She is not right when she makes that window very broad...but she will not want to suffer the sorrow...of some of her loved ones maybe lost...which may not be truth if they had faith in Jesus Christ...regardless of denominations or how clean those denominations are.... I see that you think if someone is not in pure faith with Jesus that Jesus will abandon them....and he will refuse to fight for them ...turning his back on them....this is not the truth.... If Jesus cannot have their full understanding when they live...he will have it when they die... It seems that you do not understand the Gospel like Peter did....who not at the beginning but from the time Jesus sowed him...the vision of the great sheet....preparing him for his mission to the Roman captain Cornelius... The understanding of that vision will change how you see many things... And that Jesus accepts the faith of those who want him as their Savior...without dedicating them selves to be their Lord.... And you are we...to judge faith in Jesus Christ..as he Savior.... Jesus Saves....and then from those he saves he calls on them to open their hearts and minds to seek him as their Lords.... It has to come from those who are Saved to seek him in that capacity...not to be force on them as a requirement of being Saved from Hell.... Many are saved but not all are ministers and disciples servants of the Gospel... Quote She is full of occult beliefs and practices and prays to her dead parents and thinks they talk to her. She used to go to tekwondo camps in which she hypnotized herself; she said one time she couldn't bring herself out of her trance. She is totally controlled by fear. Big deal....when I say so boldly "big deal" to Jesus....still none of these things can take her away from him.... When the time come to live this earth and she dies..everything will be left behind... Only Jesus will be left with her...and she will smile...Jesus rains.... Quote This is the person I was referring to when I spoke of her being deceived. I suspect that she is not born again at this point and the more she tells me about her beliefs the more convinced I become. Having witnessed to her for years, she doesn't seem to retain any of it as though the seed falls on hard ground and satan snatches it away. She cannot even utter the words: Jesus is Lord". When we were baptized in 1960 she said she wanted to be a Christian because God is lonely. That was her confession of faith! So you think I shouldn't worry and she is not deceived? You think her name is written in the book of life? You think she is another kind of sheep who is going to heaven even though she only wants Jesus as Savior so she won't go to hell but she refuses to follow Him as Lord; instead she believes people get a chance to believe in Jesus after they die, but is is a Jesus of her own creation and she rejects the Jesus of the Bible. She believes in some type of reincarnation. I still believe she is deceived. God's love is a gift of the Spirit that a person cannot possess if they are not born again. They may have a worldly friendship type of love--phileo--but not agape love which is a gift of compassionate, merciful undeserved grace filled self sacrificing forgiveness. The peace of God also differs from the world's peace. Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. Jesus Saves people as they are.. Not after he makes them white sheep... Look at the content of the great sheet.. Jesus said to Nicodemus "you must be born to me"... believe in me after I died on the Cross... Your words is that she believes Jesus as a Savior.... If not why would she say ...there are other ways to Heaven besides Jesus....not to include herself...but to include others....perhaps Catholics who their doctrine says they need the church to saved together with faith in JESUS......??? Never the less those the church tries to saved... They believe and are Saved without the Church's rituals before or after death.... They are trying to saved the Saved!!! Edited May 26, 2020 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 26, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 26, 2020 On 5/25/2020 at 11:29 AM, Behold said: The worst thing The Devil can do through a believer is to cause them to try to put real born again Christians under the bondage of SELF EFFORT to keep themselves Saved. This is how the Devil uses a deceived "believer" to defy the Grace of God. So, when you find one of these trying to replace "the Finished WORK of Jesus on the Cross", with Personal WORKS to try to do what only Christ on the Cross can do, then you've found a deceived believer. These people are incredibly harmful to other believers because they are relentless in their carnal desire put a Christian under bondage to "keeping themselves saved". They are relentless in their carnal desire to try to cause a believer to believe that they can lose their salvation. By all means, if anyone sees anyone trying to say their works are what saved them , show them their error! Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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