The beast in the bottomless pit

[douggg]

2 hours ago, TMarcum said:

 

Satan has not been bound in the bottomless pit for a thousand years,TM.    Satan has been roaming free, on the earth, the first and second heavens, seeking who he can destroy.

 

In Revelation 17:7 the angel is presenting the mystery.    He is not solving it.   The angel is presenting the pieces.

So it is mystery of Satan - his plan.    In contrast with the mystery of God in Revelation 10:7, as He had declared to the prophets, His plan.

 

In Revelation 17:8a

The beast in the bottomless pit - is not Satan - but is a literal beast, the original serpent in the garden, which Satan used as part of his plan to get Adam and Eve to sin.

In Revelation 17:8b

Is the end times person, who Satan will use as part of his plan to be worshiped like God.

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First century, Revelation 17 - kings, no crowns.     horns, no crowns.      First century, sixth king ruling.    Spirit of the serpent in the bottomless pit.

7 years to go, Revelation 12 - kings, crowns.    King 7 the little horn has come to power.    Spirit of the serpent in the bottomless pit.

42 months to go, Revelation 13 -   kings, no crowns.  King 7 has been killed.      horns, crowns, to rule with the former King 7 person who is brought back to life as the beast King 8, possessed by the spirit of the serpent which at that point will have ascended out of the bottomless pit.

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All part of the mystery of Satan's plan going back to the garden.

God's plan is to destroy Satan, and his kingdom, and to redeem man from the fall, and to restore the earth.  Eventually to make an all new, heaven and earth.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by douggg

[HAZARD]

The Beast out of the Earth (Rev. 13:11-17).

This individual, or second beast, is here mentioned for the first time and all that is given concerning him in the Bible is recorded in Revelation. He is called "the false prophet" in Rev. 16:13; 19:20; 20:10, which are the only other passages that mention him. He is to be a prophet, but a false one; a prophet of Antichrist, not Christ. In Rev. 16:13 he is seen with the beast and dragon as sending forth the demon spirits to gather nations to Armageddon. In Rev. 19:20 he is seen as being the mirical-working co-laborer and leader of the nations along with the first beast as he came against Christ at Armageddon. The doom of this second beast will be torment in the lake of fire forever along with the first beast, the dragon, and all rebellious creatures (Rev. 20:10).

The beast out of the earth [world] will tell Earth dwellers to make an image to the first beast. The image will be made and set up in the temple of God to be worshiped (Matt. 24:15). He will have the power to give life to this image that is should both speak and cause all who will not worship it to be killed. This will be a wonderful sign in itself, that a material image should be given power to speak and act (Rev. 13:14, 15).

This second beast will cause all classes to recieve brands in their right hands or in their forheads, that no man might buy or sell except those who have them (Rev. 13:16-18). This will result in martyrdome of most of the "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations" (Rev. 7:9-17; 13:7; 14:13; 15:2, 3; 20:4). In the worship of the first beast and his image, men will be so devoted as to say, "Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?" This reveals the worship will be both political and religious (Rev. 13:14). It will not be a willing worship on the part of many, for force will be used to make them worship. The worship will be of such an apostate nature as to pronounce eternal doom to all who partake (Rev. 14:9-11). Many men will throw overboard all faith in God and Christ, and become servants of the devil, and be controlled by “HIS” demon spirits to such an extent as to be past redemption.

[TMarcum]

10 hours ago, douggg said:

 

Satan has not been bound in the bottomless pit for a thousand years,TM.   Satan has been roaming free, on the earth, the first and second heavens, seeking who he can destroy.

 

Satan is in the pit. He was pit there by Jesus's death on the cross. Jesus said, "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out (John 12:31)". Satan is only bound to those who are born again and whose names are written in the book of life. Satan has no power over the drawing power of the Holy Ghost. Satan does not have power to prevent a sinner who is called by God to repent from being born again. But when he is loose from the pit, he will have this power.

But Satan is not bound and never will be bound to the sinner man. The sinner man already belongs to Satan. Jesus said he is their father. The sinner man serves Satan. But when Satan is loose from the pit, all whose names are not written in the book of life will worship the beast, without choice. Then the beast will make them naked. 

Satan is only bound to the saints and that's all he will ever be bound to.

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In Revelation 17:8a

The beast in the bottomless pit - is not Satan - but is a literal beast, the original serpent in the garden, which Satan used as part of his plan to get Adam and Eve to sin.

 

Satan is the only one who could spend 1000 years in a pit. The beast is made up of 7 kingdoms with kings, and 10 kings without kingdoms. None of these kings have ever been (nor will ever be) in the bottomless pit.

The beast of Rev 17:8 was never in the garden with Adam and Eve. The beast is confined to 7 mountains (Rev 17:9). These mountains are not mobile and were never located in the garden. Adam and Eve were put out of the garden and it was sealed. The 7 mountains are not sealed and the kings of the beast have access to them.

Satan is the old serpent called the Devil (Rev 12:9). This is not the beast of (Rev 17:8)

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Also, the woman in (Rev 12:1) is not Eve. The Woman of (Rev 12:1) is Zion.

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In Revelation 17:8b

Is the end times person, who Satan will use as part of his plan to be worshiped like God.

 

Yes, The dragon (Satan) gave his power, seat, and authority to the Beast of (Rev 13:2), which is the same beast as (Rev 17:8).

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God's plan is to destroy Satan, and his kingdom, and to redeem man from the fall, and to restore the earth.  Eventually to make an all new, heaven and earth.

 

God has already redeemed man from the fall when he gave his life and rose from the tomb, as many that will receive him as their savior.

A question I have. You stated that the pit will be occupied by the beast of (Rev 17:8) and the pit will also later be occupied by Satan in (Rev 20:1-3). When will the Beast of (Rev 17:8) & (Rev 11:7) be put in the bottomless pit?

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by TMarcum

[TMarcum]

10 hours ago, HAZARD said:

The Beast out of the Earth (Rev. 13:11-17).

This individual, or second beast, is here mentioned for the first time and all that is given concerning him in the Bible is recorded in Revelation. He is called "the false prophet" in Rev. 16:13; 19:20; 20:10, which are the only other passages that mention him.

This is a great response. But one other place in Revelation mentions the 2nd Beast (FP), but does not call him by name (highlighted below). It is the 2nd beast (FP) that goes into perdition after the beast with the 7 heads ascends out of the bottomless pit.

Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Edited June 4, 2020 by TMarcum

[TMarcum]

On 5/29/2020 at 12:03 AM, OneLight said:

I thought it wold be beneficial for you to reconsider who is in the bottomless pit.

Revelation 20:1-3

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.  He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

Then we read in verses 7-11

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.  They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Now, compare it to Revelation 17:8

The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

It seems pretty clear that the beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit in Revelation 17:8 is the very same beast, who is Satan, that comes out of the bottomless pit in Revelation 20:7-11.  Notice that the beast in Rev 17 goes into perdition and Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.  Yup, one and the same.

I totally agree with you. The beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit in (Rev 17:8) and then goes into perdition, is the same as the one that is thrown into the bottomless pit in (Rev 20:1-3). Also, the beast of (Rev 11:7) that ascends out of the pit, is also the same as seen in (Rev 20:1-3).

You can read in (Rev 16:13-14) when the 6th vial was poured out, that (3) evil spirits went out of the dragon, beast, and FP, to gather the kings of the earth and the "whole" world for the battle of that great day of the Lord Almighty. You can also see the dragon doing this in (Rev 20:8). This is what is said in (Rev 16:14), that they went out unto the "whole world" to gather them.

Rev 16
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

[OneLight]

39 minutes ago, TMarcum said:

I totally agree with you. The beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit in (Rev 17:8) and then goes into perdition, is the same as the one that is thrown into the bottomless pit in (Rev 20:1-3). Also, the beast of (Rev 11:7) that ascends out of the pit, is also the same as seen in (Rev 20:1-3).

You can read in (Rev 16:13-14) when the 6th vial was poured out, that (3) evil spirits went out of the dragon, beast, and FP, to gather the kings of the earth and the "whole" world for the battle of that great day of the Lord Almighty. You can also see the dragon doing this in (Rev 20:8). This is what is said in (Rev 16:14), that they went out unto the "whole world" to gather them.

Rev 16
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Notice that after the sixth bowl is poured out (Rev 16:12-16) and the whole world's armies are gathered for "the battle of that great day of God Almighty.", known as Armageddon, the next words are Jesus' words telling us He is coming   We then see the seventh bowl poured out and the words are spoken “It is done!”.  All of God's wrath has been poured out and Jesus is returning.  We see this in Revelation 19:11-21

What happens next can be read in Revelation 20:1-6.  Satan is thrown into the bottomless pit , which is sealed for 1000 years, at which time Jesus reigns.  I believe Jesus will be  recreating the nation of Israel as it was meant to be.  Scripture is silent on this matter, which is why it is only my personal opinion here.

After the 1000 year reign, Satan will be released for "a little while" to gather the armies of the world together for another battle against God, Gog and Magog war.  Revelation 20:7-10

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.  They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

These are two different battles separated by 1000+ years.  Scripture tells us that Satan will be released for "a little while" so no time frame can be created to know how long this will be, but after the Gog and Magog battle, Satan is finished, completely.

[TMarcum]

8 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Notice that after the sixth bowl is poured out (Rev 16:12-16) and the whole world's armies are gathered for "the battle of that great day of God Almighty.", known as Armageddon, the next words are Jesus' words telling us He is coming   We then see the seventh bowl poured out and the words are spoken “It is done!”.  All of God's wrath has been poured out and Jesus is returning.  We see this in Revelation 19:11-21

What happens next can be read in Revelation 20:1-6.  Satan is thrown into the bottomless pit , which is sealed for 1000 years, at which time Jesus reigns.  I believe Jesus will be  recreating the nation of Israel as it was meant to be.  Scripture is silent on this matter, which is why it is only my personal opinion here.

After the 1000 year reign, Satan will be released for "a little while" to gather the armies of the world together for another battle against God, Gog and Magog war.  Revelation 20:7-10

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.  They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

These are two different battles separated by 1000+ years.  Scripture tells us that Satan will be released for "a little while" so no time frame can be created to know how long this will be, but after the Gog and Magog battle, Satan is finished, completely.

I personally believe that (Rev 20:1-6) is a recapitulation of the history of the dragon, as well as the martyred saints. We see several recapitulation throughout the book of Revelation. In (Rev 12:1-7), we see recapitulation, just as in (Rev 20:1-6). We see another one in (Rev 11:3-6). The texts begins with the 42 months that the gentiles will trodden under foot the holy city, then a recapitulation to discuss the 2 witnesses, and then back to the timeline of the beast in (Rev 11:7). We have 2 whole chapters of recapitulation in (Rev 17) & (Rev 18) that occurred in the middle of (Rev 16).

So the timeline from (Rev 19:21) continues in (Rev 20:7). We merely have a recapitulation in the 1st 6 verses.

The various interpretations of this section has caused so many different end time beliefs.

[OneLight]

45 minutes ago, TMarcum said:

I personally believe that (Rev 20:1-6) is a recapitulation of the history of the dragon, as well as the martyred saints. We see several recapitulation throughout the book of Revelation. In (Rev 12:1-7), we see recapitulation, just as in (Rev 20:1-6). We see another one in (Rev 11:3-6). The texts begins with the 42 months that the gentiles will trodden under foot the holy city, then a recapitulation to discuss the 2 witnesses, and then back to the timeline of the beast in (Rev 11:7). We have 2 whole chapters of recapitulation in (Rev 17) & (Rev 18) that occurred in the middle of (Rev 16).

So the timeline from (Rev 19:21) continues in (Rev 20:7). We merely have a recapitulation in the 1st 6 verses.

The various interpretations of this section has caused so many different end time beliefs.

Unless you can show where Satan has been in a bottomless pit for the past 1000 years, or as you say 2000+ years, in scripture, I will continue to see this as a future event as brought forth in Revelation 20:1 forward to the end of Revelation.  It fits perfectly, as scripture should.  It's when one has to twist, add to, or take away from scripture where you will find the many different theories of what is going to take place.

 

[douggg]

4 hours ago, TMarcum said:

Satan is in the pit.

No, Satan is not in the bottomless pit.    He goes about like a roaring lion seeking who he can destroy.     In the second half of the seven years, in Revelation 12:17, he makes war on the Jews, who at that time will have becomes Christians - who had not fled into the wilderness in time.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I think in your post, you were talking about Satan being "bound", in some theology you have.    Which being bound even in that theology is not the same as being in the bottomless pit - right? 

 

4 hours ago, TMarcum said:

A question I have. You stated that the pit will be occupied by the beast of (Rev 17:8) and the pit will also later be occupied by Satan in (Rev 20:1-3). When will the Beast of (Rev 17:8) & (Rev 11:7) be put in the bottomless pit?

The person in Revelation 11 and Revelation 13 does not become the beast before being cast into hell (with the bottomless pit nearby), but during his short time in hell.      He becomes the beast by being possessed by the beast i.e. the spirit of the beast the serpent currently in the bottomless pit - while he is in hell, upon exiting hell.

The bottomless pit is located as the great chasm in hell.

 

 

Revelation 17:8 is actually about two different individuals in the text - separated by a semicolon.     I refer to the division as Revelation 17:8a  and Revelation 17:8b.

 

The person now in the bottomless pit, as a spirit since his body has long since decomposed, is the original serpent in the garden.    Who sold out to Satan, in return for getting Adam and Eve to sin.   So that beast has been in the bottomless pit, ever since the garden of Eden.

 

Differently, in Revelation 17:8b, is the end times person, the little horn person, who the world will witness being killed, and come back to life.    That person's soul will be in hell (adjacent t0 the bottomless pit) for a very brief period.

 

 

Ezekiel 28:8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

From the story of Lazarus and the rich man, there was a great chasm that separated the two.      I think that chasm is the bottomless pit.

In Isaiah 14:15-20, the slain little horn person, the revealed man of sin, will find his soul in hell (for a short time), the bottomless pit nearby (from Ezekiel 28:8).   Slain because he dared to sit in the seat of God, claiming to the nations that he had achieved God-hood (Ezekiel 28:2).     

At that point  in Isaiah 14:18-20, which God in disdain for the person casts his soul out of the grave, it is then on exiting hell, where the bottomless pit is,  that the spirit of the serpent ascends out of that pit and possesses him.         He becomes the beast by being possessed by the spirit of the beast, the original serpent in the garden.    The common link is that they are both sell-outs to Satan.

Satan tried that same strategy on Jesus, when he offered the kingdoms of this world to Jesus, in return for worshiping him.   But Jesus rebuked him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by douggg

[TMarcum]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

Unless you can show where Satan has been in a bottomless pit for the past 1000 years, or as you say 2000+ years, in scripture, I will continue to see this as a future event as brought forth in Revelation 20:1 forward to the end of Revelation.  It fits perfectly, as scripture should.  It's when one has to twist, add to, or take away from scripture where you will find the many different theories of what is going to take place.

 

Likewise:

1) Can you show where an/or when the Beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit (Rev 11:7 & Rev 17:8), was cast into the pit?

2) Can you show anywhere in the bible suggests there are 2 periods when the pit is occupied?