Knowing God, knowing righteousness...

[Alive]

These are things we can't know. What we do know and can be sure of is that we don't have the capacity or knowledge for and of many things.

Even human language itself is surely lacking the communication facility to express things of His realm. We learned a piece of this when Paul reported that he saw/heard things that were not possible to convey--it was beyond him. It was beyond 'capacity'--to use a human word.

The human words used for ages, eternity, and by extension dispensation leave room for flexibility of time span.

So, we could reasonably surmise that the Lake of Fire itself and its duration may be a fixed thing within the overall construct of God's wholeness---a dispensation.

We just don't know---Satan is one of God's loved creations. We know that God is a God of Judgement and Justice and that His over arching characteristic is Love and Self-sacrifice.

I suspect that forever does not mean forever in all cases.

:-)

 

[JohnD]

30 minutes ago, Gideon said:

Hi my. brother. I asked because long ago, the pastor I had began to preach universal reconciliation, where even satan would be won over. It caused quite a stir and ended with him having to resign. Truthfully, in my heart, I would rejoice if God's grace was destined to even bring satan himself back in the fold, but it seems God has given us understanding only up to a certain point and we are to react based solely upon that understanding. 

Thanks for your reply. Be blessed, my friend

Gideon

Satan and all of the rest of the angels were created in their permanent form.

The soul that sins shall die.

God cannot change who he is so this must stand.

Humanity is created with the ability to both have a permanent spirit and a temporal body

(which can die).

It is no coincidence that God the Word became flesh and laid that body down as the sacrifice

for all human beings' sin. He and the Father and the Holy Spirit raised his body from death to

permanent life as a spirit body (the two parts become the one whole). And we will be like him 

in the resurrection (our spirits will meld with our resurrected bodies 1 John 3:2).

1 Timothy 4:10 / 1 John 2:2 (potentially  saving the entire human race) ← but only those who activate

their salvation by faith will actually be saved John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, John 16:27, Romans 8:15 etc.

Death is awful and terrible and on and on... but without it we would be as doomed to hell as the devil and his angels.

I also believe the old order of heaven distinctly apart  from earth with be replaced with the new Heaven-Earth also where the two become one.

I may be wrong about that, but it's what I believe.

Also, Acts 17:11 !!!

Check out everything I have written against scripture for yourselves.

We are to take no one's word for it.

Edited May 31, 2020 by JohnD

[Not me]

@Alive  & @Gideon and all those interested...

To add to the thoughts, of whether in the eternity to come, if those in hell will ever be delivered?

The thought could be thought;

If there is a good and righteous way, and God doesn’t do it, it would be proof positive that God is not good and righteous.....

Seeing therefore how God is good and righteous, therefore I believe it is an impossibility, the reasons to follow; 

I for one believe that it is an impossibility to deliver those in hell from hell for that would take a nature change... And the only way to change one’s nature is for that life to die and then to be born again.... Seeing how all those in hell are eternal creatures which can never die, therefore being born again with a new good and righteous nature becomes an impossibility...

Henceforth is also seen the necessity of the salvation that there is in Christ, where He said “you must be born again” the very foundation and why the line is drawn there.....

My thinks and pondering before God....

Be blessed in the pondering, Not me 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Not me

[Alive]

39 minutes ago, Not me said:

@Alive  & @Gideon and all those interested...

To add to the thoughts, of whether in the eternity to come, if those in hell will ever be delivered?

The thought could be thought;

If there is a good and righteous way, and God doesn’t do it, it would be proof positive that God is not good and righteous.....

Seeing therefore how God is good and righteous, therefore I believe it is an impossibility, the reasons to follow; 

I for one believe that it is an impossibility to deliver those in hell from hell for that would take a nature change... And the only way to change one’s nature is for that life to die and then to be born again.... Seeing how all those in hell are eternal creatures which can never die, therefore being born again with a new good and righteous nature becomes an impossibility...

Henceforth is also seen the necessity of the salvation that there is in Christ, where He said “you must be born again” the very foundation and why the line is drawn there.....

My thinks and pondering before God....

Be blessed in the pondering, Not me 

I understand your reasoning and it makes sense within the 'Age' that we are in. An Age and Dispensation that is defined by a set of 'narrow' variables.

How do sons of Adam get 'birthed' into a different 'Being'?--so yes, we are seeing played out the restoration of all damage done by the heavenly rebellion and the damage this did to the earthly realm. I suspect that there is more. I take a hint from two things...well three really.

1. Entropy (not the way it was desired by God-- death entered His universe)

2. His Eternal Purpose (what I believe that to be)

3. This universe being rolled up like a scroll and put away and a New spare one ready to go

 

Now this next is my own opinion and not necessarily that of the owners or managers of this realm: I do not believe my Lord is capable of torturing sentient beings for an eternity (long time) for transgressions that derive from a nature they were born with. That is not just. He made us to have a sense of what is just as a part of the way He Himself is, and there is no sense to that. We learn a great deal about his sense of justice from Israel. Now, we can say His ways are as high above ours as the heavens above the earth, but that concept does not negate 'Love' and the apex of that in action-- in that He sacrificed Himself for His Creation.

 

[JustPassingThru]

3 hours ago, Alive said:

I believe that there will be naturally born humans in the 'fresh universe' being born and never dying and that part of our job will be to bring them up into the fullness of God. We are going to be very busy for all eternity as the new universe is filled with His Fulness.

Interesting thought brother, and since we "are" thinking hypothetically, ...how would we explain what Jesus said about Heaven?

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.  Matt 22:30

Does that mean in Eternity God will condone the sex act outside of marriage?

Lord bless

[Alive]

1 minute ago, JustPassingThru said:

Interesting thought brother, and since we "are" thinking hypothetically, ...how would we explain what Jesus said about Heaven?

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.  Matt 22:30

Does that mean in Eternity God will condone the sex act outside of marriage?

Lord bless

No--I am talking about natural humans being born and never dying in the New Earth.

We will be existing in at least two realms--as the angels do and much more---IMO.

[JustPassingThru]

32 minutes ago, Alive said:

No--I am talking about natural humans being born and never dying in the New Earth.

We will be existing in at least two realms--as the angels do and much more---IMO.

That is an interesting thought the possibilites would be endless, ...sure would be interesting to see what Father has for them that would be different from the Mercy and Grace we've experienced...

I believe one thing for certain, ...Eternity will be so different from what we ever or could imagine.

Lord bless

[Alive]

Just now, JustPassingThru said:

That is an interesting thought the possibilites would be endless, ...sure would be interesting to see what Father has for them that would be different from the Mercy and Grace we've experienced...

I believe one thing for certain, ...Eternity will be so different from what we ever or could imagine.

Lord bless

Well---we pretty much know that the enemy and his cohorts that have pushed man's corruptive acts so very far, won't be around anymore. So that influence will be gone.

Perhaps God will somehow alter humans after the final judgment and the New comes around. We can see in Isa. that God is going to change the 'nature' of the beasts and that children will be around then. This can't be during the millenium, because we know that the nations will still be very much natural and even rebel with Lucifer before the final war. So, it is not beyond reason that humans will be altered as well. As I suggested earlier, I think we sons of God will be very busy bringing these humans into the 'fullness of Christ'. The universe is very large for some reason. I suspect that it is meant to be filled. On and on and on. Ya---a very big family.

We know they will be born and we know death will have been defeated and no more in the New.

:-)

Is. 11:6 “The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,

The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,

The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;

And a little child shall lead them.

 

Is. 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,

The lion shall eat straw like the ox,

And dust shall be the serpent’s food.

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,”

Says the LORD.

[Not me]

@Alive

I am of the mind that it will depend on the possibilities in righteousness...

If the possibility exists in righteousness I’m quite sure in the eternity to come God will bring it to pass.... After all He is good..

Be blessed in Him, Not me  

[steve morrow]

AND  RIGHTEOUSNESS AS  DEFINED   BY  JESUS  CHRIST

PROVERBS  8:7  for  MY  mouth shall speak truth and wickedness is an abomination to  MY  LIPS

--8:8-- all the words of  MY  mouth are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them 

PROVERBS 12:17  he that speaketh truth showeth forth righteousness but a false witness deceit 

PSALM 119:144  the righteousness of thy testimonies is everlasting give me understanding and I shall live 

PSALM 119:172  my tongue shall speak of thy word for all thy commandments are righteousness 

 

PSALM 15:1  lord who shall abide in thy tabernacle who shall dwell in thy holy hill --15:2-- he that walketh uprightly and  --WORKETH  RIGHTEOUSNESS-- and speaketh truth in his heart 

ACTS 10:35  then peter opened his mouth and said of a truth I perceive that  GOD  is no respecter of persons --10:36-- but in every nation he that feareth  HIM  and  --WORKETH  RIGHTEOUSNESS -- is accepted with  HIM

 

1 JOHN 3:10  in this the children of  GOD  are manifest and the children of the devil whosoever  --DOETH  NOT  RIGHTEOUSNESS--IS  NOT  OF  GOD-- neither he that loveth not his brother 

JOHN 14:15  IF  YOU  LOVE  ME  KEEP  MY  COMMANDMENTS 

GALATIANS 4:5  TO  REDEEM  THEM  THAT  WERE  UNDER  THE  LAW  THAT  WE  MIGHT  RECEIVE  THE  ADOPTION  OF  SONS  --4:6-- AND  BECAUSE  YOU  ARE  SONS  GOD  HATH  SENT  FORTH  THE  SPIRIT  OF  HIS  SON  INTO  YOUR  HEARTS  CRYING  ABBA  FATHER

 

JOHN 6:63  it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that --I  SPEAK  UNTO  YOU-- they are sprit and they are life

ROMANS 6:16  know you not that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey his servants you are to whom you obey whether sin unto death or fo obedience unto righteousness  

 

EPHESIANS  5:9  for the fruit of the spirit is in all ---GOODNESS  AND  RIGHTEOUSNESS  AND  TRUTH --- 5:10 --- proving what is acceptable unto  THE  LORD

ROMANS 14:17  the kingdom of  GOD  is not meat  and drink  but  righteousness and peace and joy in the holy spirit 

3 JOHN 1:4  I  HAVE  NO  GREATER   JOY  THAN  TO  HEAR  THAT  MY  CHILDREN  WALK  IN TRUTH 

 

1 JOHN 1:9  --IF-- we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness 

2 CORINTHIANS 3:8  how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious --3:9-- for if the ministration of condemnation be glory much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory 

 

ROMANS 1:18  for the wrath of  GOD  is revealed from heaven against  --ALL  UNGODLINESS  AND  UNRIGHTEOUSNESS-- of men who hold the truth in unrighteousness 

2 THESSALONIANS 2:10  and with all deceiveableness of  UNRIGHTEOUSNES  in them that perish because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved 

 

JOHN 5:34  BUT  I  RECEIVE  NOT  TESTIMONY  FROM  MAN  BUT  THESE  THINGS  --I  SAY-- THAT  YOU  MIGHT  BE  SAVED 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  AND  OUR  FATHER