teddyv Posted July 7, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2020 Isaiah 34:8-10 Quote 8 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause. 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again. Is Edom still burning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted July 7, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2020 On 6/10/2020 at 8:54 PM, Rosenberg57 said: So the Devil, his angels and all those in Hell Have eternal life. the live for eternity in Hell Everybody that goes to Hell live for Eternity, The Devil Lives for Eternity. SO eternal life is not a Gift Given to the followers of Christ, even those that go to Hell live Eternally. See there is something wrong in this. There are different theory's and teachings on eternal life/death. I hold to the teaching that we are all eternal beings created in the likeness of the eternal God. Fallen Angels and Demons are also eternal beings but they continue to exist with or without a physical body even in a fallen state. Death in a biblical since does mean cease to exist but separation from God who is the source of life. When people die their spirit/soul go to place called Sheol (which the bible teaches is inside of the earth) there they wait judgement. Sheol is divided by those of the righteousness dead and those of the wicked. One of comfort (paradise/Abraham's bosom) and one of torment (hell). Jesus refers to the place in Luke 16 (Lazarus and Rich man also to the person on the cross). Jesus also speaks of a future physical resurrection of all people of both righteous and wicked for the day of judgement (John 5/Mat 25). The final judgement will determine where we will spend eternity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted July 7, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,270 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,892 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted July 7, 2020 We are created beings. God does not need our advice upon HIS decisions, so that we may feel better about our sinful selves. We do not see or understand how God sees sin/evil. We have no idea. God is perfect. God is Light! His just solution was the crucifixion and death of His beloved son. (Think about that) Those who reject that sacrifice of divine love are told what is going to happen, yet spit in His face. I am a created being. I do not second guess/judge my creator. If you are 'really' so worried about those who end up in an eternal torment, shut off your computer face book twitter TV microwave and go out and plant some seeds, and share the gospel. (why not?) I don't think the creator of the universe needs our advise. Follow/read the owners manual...... Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prycejosh1987 Posted July 8, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,176 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/07/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/29/1987 Share Posted July 8, 2020 What i understand is the soul is eternal and at the same time there is torment for people who dont follow Jesus and bliss for those that do, in a human's eternal afterlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithwilldo Posted July 8, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 168 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1961 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Mankind "lives" not only by the Truth (bread) but we also live by the tribulation/evil that God has created. Evil was created by God so that mankind can know the difference between good and evil. That is why God caused Adam and Eve to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We must partake of that tree in order to learn about the goodness of God. Not only does that mean we must experience evil, it also means that we must be evil as well. Because we must experience evil to fully know the goodness of God, it became necessary for God to create a pathway back to the Himself after evil has accomplished its purpose. This pathway is the work of Christ. John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. As the Lamb of God, Christ has taken away the sins of the world. The penalty of sin is death but now all mankind who has ever lived will be resurrected by Christ. Christ has given all mankind life and He accomplished this great work at the cross. But Christ came to do more than just take away the sins of the world at the cross. John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Christ gave all mankind life by His work on the cross and He will also give all mankind life more abundantly (restore our relationship with God and give us the power to never sin again). The first part of Christ's work was accomplished at the cross, the second part of His work is presently ongoing. That work is to restore each individual's relationship with the Father and stop us from sinning - that is salvation and that is more abundant life. 1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. The salvation of mankind is an ongoing work of Christ which will be testified in due time. In fact, Christ's work of saving each individual person who has ever lived (or will live) is just getting started. Christ is appearing to and saving the First Fruits of His harvest of mankind in this present age. It is a very small group. We cannot choose ourselves into this group because God does the choosing and He chose the First Fruits before creation even began. Eph 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Christ is NOT trying to individually save most of mankind now. That great work will be accomplished in the final age. 1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. It takes faith to believe that someday (due time) God will be "all in all". But it will happen: Phi 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Lastly, the common teaching on "hell" is completely wrong. Hell is the unseen place of death and nothing more. There are no fires or torment. Those in hell are dead. After an unsaved person is resurrected, they will be judged on the New Earth (Rev 21) by Christ but that judgement will produce righteousness within them: Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. The "Lake of Fire" mentioned in Revelation is not "hell". It is a physical symbol that represents a spiritual truth. Fire is a symbol for God's judgement and that judgment is not eternal. It lasts only until the desired results are accomplished. The Greek word "aion" does not mean forever and ever. Below are two verses that use that phrase "for ever and ever". Both are translated wrong: Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Rev 11:15 says that Christ will reign "for ever and ever". Do you see the problem? Read this verse again that I quoted earlier: 1Cor 15: 25-28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Christ's reign will come to an end after the ages are complete. After that time, God will be "all in all". Christ's reign is NOT "for ever and ever" and neither is His judgment of the lost. Here is how both verses in Revelation should be translated: Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are both the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for the ages of ages. Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded his trumpet: and there were great voices in the heaven, saying, The kingdom of the world of our Lord and of his Christ is come, and he shall reign to the ages of ages. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosenberg57 Posted July 9, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 40 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/02/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 17 hours ago, Prycejosh1987 said: What i understand is the soul is eternal and at the same time there is torment for people who dont follow Jesus and bliss for those that do, in a human's eternal afterlife. As I understand it God alone is Eternal and Immortal 1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. To say that humans are eternal is to make men out to be equal with God, something someone said in Genesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted July 9, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.51 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 2:54 AM, Rosenberg57 said: So the Devil, his angels and all those in Hell Have eternal life. the live for eternity in Hell Everybody that goes to Hell live for Eternity, The Devil Lives for Eternity. SO eternal life is not a Gift Given to the followers of Christ, even those that go to Hell live Eternally. See there is something wrong in this. Hell is eternal death (i.e. being without, and apart from, the life of God and all goodness, as well as being without light, with sin, and in unending torment). Eternal life is in Christ and means being with the life of God and all that is good, praiseworthy, beautiful, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosenberg57 Posted July 9, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 40 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/02/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Josheb said: I completely agree. It's not just that devil and his angels, Rosenberg57; it is death, too! Remember death too is thrown into the fiery lake. So if the lake doesn't destroy death then death ain't dead and death remains a an eternal part of creation on the other side of the grave! So if death is dead, if death is destroyed, then so is everything else thrown in with it. This is why I believe the cessation of existence (perhaps after an extended period of torturous decay) is the correct view of what happens to the unrepentant. Not only death but hell itself is also thrown into the Lake of Fire, Rev_20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi Posted July 10, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 1.03 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) On 6/10/2020 at 9:54 PM, Rosenberg57 said: So the Devil, his angels and all those in Hell Have eternal life. the live for eternity in Hell Everybody that goes to Hell live for Eternity, The Devil Lives for Eternity. SO eternal life is not a Gift Given to the followers of Christ, even those that go to Hell live Eternally. See there is something wrong in this. Right now (unbeknownst to most) everyone has enlightenment from God on which way to go. There will soon, however, come a time (at the conclusion of the beast's system) when the Lord will come as a thief and remove his guiding enlightenment from those who love the beast's system. There will then be those with complete enlightenment and those in darkness. Those in the outer darkness without the Lord are in eternal darkness and spiritual death (Hell), while those married to the Lord in total enlightenment will be in spiritual eternal life (Heaven). Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee. 2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. Edited July 10, 2020 by luigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branchesofHim Posted July 10, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 211 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,463 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 759 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/23/1966 Share Posted July 10, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 7:32 AM, Alive said: I assure you they are. Indeed. And only "we" can effectively deal with them in Jesus' name .... by faith. Shalom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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