Fine Linen is the Righteousness of Saints

[Diaste]

On 6/27/2020 at 5:01 AM, Diaste said:

So, why is it that upon DECONSTRUCTION those in Rev. 7:9-17 can't be those seen in Rev. 6, Seal #5 under the Altar? Well, one must lean to DECONSTRUCT FIRST, if the narrative put forth {like the 144,000 Jewish Preachers} doesn't fit, then you must deconstruct and then RECONSTRUCT. So, what are the pertinent facts {facts are all that matter} that proves this? 

For starters, SEE ABOVE, I prove that the Church/Bride is seen in Rev. 4 and 5 BEFORE the Seals are opened. So Rev. 7:9-17 would be the exact SAME PEOPLES, because the exact same verbiage is used a we saw In Rev. 4:4 and Rev. 5:9-10.

No you don't. Saying it is not proving it. The description of a rapture event is conspicuously absent in Revelation until ch 7. You have nothing here.

On 6/27/2020 at 5:01 AM, Diaste said:

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So, the DESCONSTRUCTION of the Rev. 7:9-17 understanding for e started right here, the Holy Bible CLEARLY SAYS via Jesus own words that those seen under the Altar as having died during this 70th week of troubles, MUST WAIT until their fellow brothers have died also in just such a manner as they have.....Psstt, it means they must wait for the Anti-Christ 42-month reign of terror to be FULFILLED !! A little SEASON !! So, those seen in Rev. 7:9-16 CAN NOT be the ones seen under the Altar in Rev. 6:9-11. This is further backed up by the Revelation 20:4 verses that STATES SPECIFICALLY those who died during this 70th week period of TROUBLES are Judged AFTER Jesus returns with us the Church in Rev. 19, this verse also was used by me to DESCONSTRUCT this erroneous tradition.

To YOU it means that. You made that up. There is no proof for what you say and in fact the refutation is in the verse you quote. They are waiting for the total number of like manner and has nothing to do with any other timing event or circumstance.

On 6/27/2020 at 5:01 AM, Diaste said:

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them{Church will JUDGE}: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

It's VERY CLEAR here that the ones under the Altar in Rev. 6:9-11 are JUDGED HERE, and it is CLEARLY SPECIFIED that the only ones who live and reign ON EARTH with Jesus during his 1000 year reign are the one who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast and were thus KILLED for not taking the Mark of the Beast. So, those at Seal #5 who were told they must WAIT a little season, are seen to have been JUDGED in Revelation chapter 19, AFTER the Second Coming, s they can not be the ones seen in Heaven on Rev. 7:9-17 can they? You see, you guys are going by passed down TRADITIONS, I am allowing God via the SCRIPTURES {which is far more IMPORTANT} to show me the facts. 

.No. This does not say who is judged, only that the church will judge. And it does not say "the only ones who live and reign ON EARTH". It says "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." Not 'only'. Your conclusions don't fit the evidence.

[Diaste]

On 6/27/2020 at 5:01 AM, Diaste said:

So, after DECONSTRUCTION, we have to understand, those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 can not be those seen under the Altar at the 5th Seal, its just not possible, so then I had to figure out why we can not see who those in Rev. 7:9-16 really are and why we were having so much trouble seeing who they actually were. After understanding the Church is in Heaven in Rev. 4 and 5 it was pretty evident those seen in Rev. 7 were also the Church/Bride in Heaven. But why did John/Jesus use the Great Tribulation I wondered, then it hit me, the problem was with US........Men's Traditions......Not with the words Jesus used, we DEMAND God/Jesus to use that phrase of Great Tribulation ONLY with the 70th week troubles, but Jesus himself told the Disciples that we would have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION in this world, so there will be tribulation from the time Jesus gave the Church the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, all the way to the Rapture, then there will be the 70th week troubles and there will be one period that is of course GREATER than all other periods of tribulation in history, BUT, the severity is not the only thing that can be GREATER..........the two periods, one 2000 some odd years and one 7 years can be measured also can't it? Thus, the 2000 some odd year period which will end with the Rapture, better known as the Church Age, is a GREATER PERIOD than the 7 year 70th week period. So, no one is CHANGING ANYTHING, that's all in your limited way of thinking on this. There is a Great Tribulation Period John/Jesus is referring to as per the "CHURCH AGE" which is 2000 years compared to the 70th week which is 7 years. 2000>7 can not be argued, its a FACT............................2000>7 is a factoid, it is GREATER THAN 7. And, there is a time of GREAT TROUBLES like never seen before, the two do not have to be MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE to each other. 

Now, which should I think it is ? The one it CAN NOT BE because as I described in Rev. 6:9-11 and in Rev. 20:4 why it CAN NOT BE those people under the Altar, or the 2000 some odd year Church Age TRIBULATIONS which CAN BE a fact, because 2000 is GREATER than 7 !! There is only ONE CHOICE, God can't lie sir. 

Does this sort of rambling actually work? The bigger problem here is that I can understand what you are saying. It's all wrong, but I get it. 

2000 is greater than 7 so 2000 years is great tribulation. 

 

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Not too convincing since this:

"Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered," - Zech 13:7

is quoted by Jesus here:

This very night you will all fall away on account of Me. For it is written:

‘I will strike the Shepherd,

and the sheep of the flock will be scattered." - Matt 26:31

and here:

“You will all fall away, for it is written:

‘I will strike the Shepherd,

and the sheep will be scattered.’" - Mark 14:27 

so the fulfillment of this was before the cross. And the rest could have been fulfilled in 70 AD or from 1939-44. 

All you have to do is think a wee bit and you will realize you are in error here. But it took you days to try and answer this. We know that Zechariah 12 is about the END TIMES because verse 2 states they will be a cup of trembling and verse 3 says they will be a Burdensome stone for the whole world. Verse 4 says he OPENS HIS EYES on the House of Judah, not forsakes them for 2000 years as Dead Men's Bones. Verse 8 says God will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem. {NOT 70 AD was it? } Verse 10 says God pours out his spirit on the inhabitants of the house of David, on THE DAY they Mourn for having slain Jesus their Messiah. 

Zechariah 13:1 says ON THAT DAY {that Israel repents} God opens a Fountain for SINS & Uncleanness {Blood of Jesus}. 

Zechariah 13:7 is exactly what was supposed to happen BEFORE the 70 AD event, you see, the punishment had to be SUSPENDED for a reason, the Jews NEVER REPENTED, if they had, they would have been saved in 70 AD. This is why Jesus forewarned in Matt. 24:4-6, do not think this is the end {the Zechariah 14:1-2 scriptures look just 70 AD for a reason} the END is By and By. So, God's plan was 70 weeks of punishment, then when the Jews did not repent God expanded it {SEE Daniel 9} to 70 x 7 or 490 years. Then, when Israel still did not repent, God halted the clock on that punishment and instead FORSOOK Israel for nigh 2000 years, and thus the Zechariah 13:7 scripture is INTACT, the Jews were indeed SCATTERED for nigh 2000 years, but everything else was DELAYED. God of course foreknew this, that is why in Matt. 24:4-6 Jesus told them the end is not yet. its by and by. 

Then, we see the DELAYED END !! The 1/3 who are SAVED right before the Zechariah 14:1-2 DAY OF THE LORD.........You see Jesus lands on the Mount of Olives in verses 3 and 4, its the END TIMES. You just seemingly can't put it together brother. The very GAP that you probably also argue against {I can't keep up with it all} is where your error comes from here. You don''t grasp the ways of God in all His doings. 

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

You don't know.

Soliloquy: "an act of speaking one's thoughts aloud when by oneself or regardless of any hearers, especially by a character in a play."  But you do this quite a lot, make it up as you go. The above is a very good example of that.

I have watched enough Plays and Marx Brothers movies to know what a Soliloquy is, its a point in a play where someone STEPS OUT from the Plays choreography or Direction, and develops another sequence of events not meant to be told in the story, or its told to further the story, but outside the chronological order of the choreographed events. 

You take a serious subject and make a lame comment because you have nothing to offer it seems. 

In the middle of the CHOREOGRAPHED TELLING of this story, John/Jesus steps out to the front of the stage so to speak and starts telling about the Pre Trib Rapture. You sure went a long to a lot of effort to basically say nothing. 

God Bless...

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Does this sort of rambling actually work? The bigger problem here is that I can understand what you are saying. It's all wrong, but I get it. 

2000 is greater than 7 so 2000 years is great tribulation

I am right and you are wrong. That the whole point, nothing else matters.

[WilliamL]

On 6/26/2020 at 3:14 AM, Diaste said:

I posted the references to make my point. What references can you share that divorce a single mention of hagios from the other 12 references to hagios; references that pretrib greedily appropriates only to shun the one mention they don't like.

I haven't divorced the meaning at all. Even at the present time there are saints in heaven, and saints on earth.

The Lord ALWAYS has saints on earth, and will have them even after the Rapture of the elect. Specifically, the Jews who instantly are converted to the Lord when they see Him coming in the clouds of heaven, and seated on the right hand of God:

Zech 12:10 ...they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

They would not be in mourning for someone they continued to choose to rebel against and reject. From that time forth on earth, this will be their state during the time of Jacob's trouble:

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.[

Many in the present Church don't keep the Sabbath/4th Commandment of God (which won't disqualify them from being raptured, I might add), but these will.

[Uriah]

On 6/28/2020 at 5:12 PM, Revelation Man said:

I made him go silent folks, you can always tell when the debate is lost, they always go silent. I wouldn't argue a point, then get defeated and cower behind excuses like "IT WAS TOO LONG".........at least come up with something like my dogs at the vet, I am too stressed out. 

You can't out debate me on the bible because I don't just play pretend brother, I have been preaching this word for nigh 35 years. 

See what I mean? Like a 13 yr. old.

(BTW I said you don't stick to a topic but bounce all over the place-I'm not into scatterbrained ramblings) 

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, WilliamL said:

I haven't divorced the meaning at all. Even at the present time there are saints in heaven, and saints on earth.

The Lord ALWAYS has saints on earth, and will have them even after the Rapture of the elect. Specifically, the Jews who instantly are converted to the Lord when they see Him coming in the clouds of heaven, and seated on the right hand of God:

Zech 12:10 ...they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

They would not be in mourning for someone they continued to choose to rebel against and reject. From that time forth on earth, this will be their state during the time of Jacob's trouble:

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.[

Many in the present Church don't keep the Sabbath/4th Commandment of God (which won't disqualify them from being raptured, I might add), but these will.

I don't disagree. The point was the appropriation of the positives and shunning of the one negative, "And he was given power to make war with the saints and overcome them." If hagios is the saints 12 times, then why isn't it the same groups of saints all 13 times?

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I have watched enough Plays and Marx Brothers movies to know what a Soliloquy is, its a point in a play where someone STEPS OUT from the Plays choreography or Direction, and develops another sequence of events not meant to be told in the story, or its told to further the story, but outside the chronological order of the choreographed events. 

You take a serious subject and make a lame comment because you have nothing to offer it seems. 

In the middle of the CHOREOGRAPHED TELLING of this story, John/Jesus steps out to the front of the stage so to speak and starts telling about the Pre Trib Rapture. You sure went a long to a lot of effort to basically say nothing. 

God Bless...

All in spite of the definition and centuries of practice. And fyi, that is not what's happening in Rev 14.

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I am right and you are wrong. That the whole point, nothing else matters.

I guess we'll find out.