There will be two Gog & Magog wars.

[R. Hartono]

14 minutes ago, Diaste said:

This seemed to throw a wrench in the works for me from time to time, especially verse 11. I always thought the only time Israel could be "at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates," was in the millennium ergo, this action by Gog is the one from Rev 20. I don't know about the planned or unplanned nature of the action. At this point it doesn't feel relevant or substantial. In Rev 20 the express purpose of Satan is to go out and deceive the nations to assemble them to battle; "and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle."

That being said nothing in the verses above demand this exist in the millennium and in fact Eze 38:8 speaks to the time frame: " After a long time you will be summoned. In the latter years you will enter a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and all now dwell securely."

This describes Israel now and the circumstances under which she was reborn. No doubt this leads pretrib to conclude a Gog action before the 70th week begins. IWe should remember the driving force behind all this on both sides is an eternal entity, one good and one evil. Maybe Gog didn't plan any of it but the nations were indeed deceived by the evil eternal entity, who did plan it all.

There is nothing here, "This is what the Lord GOD says: On that day, thoughts will arise in your mind, and you will devise an evil plan. You will say, ‘I will go up against a land of unwalled villages; I will come against a tranquil people who dwell securely, all of them living without walls or bars or gates" that gives any indication of time or location. The decision here by Gog is based on information the enemy is both rich and weak and feeling secure. That thought could come to him in his palace over morning coffee or afternoon croquet. 

Similarities are important. They are how security forces catch perps and convict them the world over. As an example the FBI Behavioral Science Unit uses similarities to build profiles to catch criminals. The early work they did on serial killers is nothing short of genius and they use the collected knowledge to build a profile, in which they have great success, and is used by LE all over the world. 

In planning military actions information is gleaned from the past and applied to similar situations the army will face to enhance the chance of success.

No, they are not 'mere similarities' they are important clues of identification. If enough similarities exist it's the same thing. Like symptoms of a physical ailment show what the Dr. is dealing with so similarities in this show more than relationship; it's the same.

Yes to the first.

To the second, no. There is a striking disparity of similarity between Rev 20 and Eze 38-39, at the same a great deal of similarity between Eze 38-39 and Rev 16:17-20, Rev 6:12-17 and Rev 11:19.

The conclusion then is Eze 38-39 is speaking to Armageddon at the end of the week and the Rev 20 wrath of God in consuming fire is only described in Rev 20 and is completely separate from Eze 38-39 and Armageddon.

Last I'm admitting no such thing. Eze 38-39 is the detail in the lead up to gathering the armies into the valley at Armageddon and the enticement is the weakness of Israel.

My position is: Ezekiel 38 is the battle at Armageddon and is not the Rev 20 Gog action. Until more information may serve to change my mind.

Ezekiel 38 is LED by Gog.

Armageddon is led by AC n false prophet.

Rev 20 is LED by the devil from bottomless pit. To try to kill Jesus n replace Him with the devil to rule the world once again.

Peace,......

 

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by R. Hartono

[Uriah]

12 hours ago, Sister said:

Uriah

I have been on repeat for years, like a scratchy record!

We have to realise first that Gog is a man.  He will die in the open field.  Gog is not Satan, but in some cases, when God speaks to Gog, he is speaking to Satan because Satan is the one behind him, driving him to do his will.

Secondly, the False Prophet's name has not been revealed, the man being used leading up to the Coming, in the first war, whereas that other man Satan will chose in that last era, his name has been revealed, and we know his name is Gog ......and Magog is the name of his armies.

Hi Sister,

I have no problem with that. I am only making a point about why the same name is used after a thousand years.

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

My position is: Ezekiel 38 is the battle at Armageddon and is not the Rev 20 Gog action. Until more information may serve to change my mind.

I concur.

I think more info will only strengthen this view. For example, the burning of weapons, the shields, clubs swords etc. are NOT excluded. Well over 100,000,000 AK-47's/74's have been produced the majority are in the middle east. All have wooden parts. For those who don't have one there are other weapons that are make with even more wood-shotguns etc. Every person who can fight will be called to do so from the region and likely carry ANY weapon that can be found, like clubs shields etc. A true apocalyptic army. (even looking like post apocalyptic)

To me this will be necessitated because of the conditions of the time. I see this battle as taking lace in spite of the ongoing cataclysms, perhaps even because of them. When the worldwide communications and travel are disrupted by the stoning from God in Rev. 8:8, it can be seen by Israels enemies as a time provided by Allah to fulfill their Koranic destiny. So, yes people will fight like armies did way back when. Russia has more horses than any other and they will be needed as gas powered vehicles won't make it and GPS and other sensitive electronics become useless. 

[R. Hartono]

12 minutes ago, Uriah said:

I concur.

I think more info will only strengthen this view. For example, the burning of weapons, the shields, clubs swords etc. are NOT excluded. Well over 100,000,000 AK-47's/74's have been produced the majority are in the middle east. All have wooden parts. For those who don't have one there are other weapons that are make with even more wood-shotguns etc. Every person who can fight will be called to do so from the region and likely carry ANY weapon that can be found, like clubs shields etc. A true apocalyptic army. (even looking like post apocalyptic)

To me this will be necessitated because of the conditions of the time. I see this battle as taking lace in spite of the ongoing cataclysms, perhaps even because of them. When the worldwide communications and travel are disrupted by the stoning from God in Rev. 8:8, it can be seen by Israels enemies as a time provided by Allah to fulfill their Koranic destiny. So, yes people will fight like armies did way back when. Russia has more horses than any other and they will be needed as gas powered vehicles won't make it and GPS and other sensitive electronics become useless. 

The 1st Gog battle was meant to ROB Israel so imho TENS of Millions Civilians from Gog nations wud join with conventional weapons intended to invade cities in Israel, to hunt down n kill n rob every Jews at home. What weapon  do u think these barbarian Civilians Will carry from their home ? Spears, sticks, nunchaku, arrows, shields, wooden clubs etc.

Edited July 2, 2020 by R. Hartono

[Diaste]

3 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Ezekiel 38 is LED by Gog.

Armageddon is led by AC n false prophet.

Rev 20 is LED by the devil from bottomless pit. To try to kill Jesus n replace Him with the devil to rule the world once again.

Peace,......

 

 

All the same eternal, evil entity bent on the same purpose. It doesn't change anything.

[Sister]

1 hour ago, Uriah said:

Hi Sister,

I have no problem with that. I am only making a point about why the same name is used after a thousand years.

Hi Uriah

I appreciate and understand that, but I was trying to point out was that "Gog" is not a title.  It's a name.  The same name can't be used again, because Gog is not even born yet.  God has revealed to us the name of this fellow way in advance, whereas the False Prophets name is not revealed to us in the scriptures. 

[Sister]

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

What kind of sword threat them in millennium ? Nations will live in peace n beat their sword into plowshares. There is no need to run away from enemies wherever they live. Isaiah 2:they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks

Exactly!

Israel is the land that is brought back from the sword.  Delivered from war.  There will be no wars period during that 1000 years, but God is speaking about that land...Israel, that Gog and Magog will seek to attack after the thousand years. 

 

7 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Regardless not all jews are willing to live in Israel because they hv business n comfort in US and Europe. THE JEWS CAN ALWAYS RETURN ANY MOMENT NOW TO ISRAEL IF THEY WANT TO ! Why wait till the Millennium ?

That makes them still scattered.  They will not be living amongst the Gentile nations during the 1000 years.  They will be a separate nation again, all living together.  Their business will be the Lord's.

Quote

Your theory is absurd.

What theory?  That only the Prince of Peace can bring peace?

 

6 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

It was a different situation with this present age, the jews need to return because of the Holocaust by Hitler n they need to establish an independent nation in 1948 as prophesied in the Bible so the prophecy has been fulfilled alrdy.

This prophecy has been fulfilled in 1948 :

Ezekiel 38:8...........They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. (they have strong army to protect their independence from all enemies for 72 years)

You should not deny the fulfillment of this prophecy.

 

Yes they need an army, but why?  Because there is always threat of war.  They are not at rest yet.  Not until Jesus comes and gives that rest.

War is coming upon the whole world R.Hartono.  Israel is not exempt.

 

Quote

Peace,...

Do you really mean that?

 

 

[Uriah]

2 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

The 1st Gog battle was meant to ROB Israel so imho TENS of Millions Civilians from Gog nations wud join with conventional weapons intended to invade cities in Israel, to hunt down n kill n rob every Jews at home. What weapon  do u think these barbarian Civilians Will carry from their home ? Spears, sticks, nunchaku, arrows, shields, wooden clubs etc.

According to Grant Jeffry, the Armageddon mob of 200,000,000 can be mustered from the surrounding Islamic nations. (perhaps some African nations included) That would necessitate most able bodied, fighting aged males. They will take any weapon available.

[R. Hartono]

7 hours ago, Sister said:

  They will not be living amongst the Gentile nations during the 1000 years.  They will be a separate nation again, all living together. 

 

 

Millions of jews hv returned to Israel  since 1948 until now which has fulfilled the prophecy, why do u rule that they must return in Millennium dont you learn history ? You shud not change history with ur story n denied the fulfillment of the prophecy.

Peace....

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by R. Hartono